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Username Post: Lehigh        (Topic#20758)
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
11-30-17 01:47 AM - Post#238493    
    In response to TigerFan

Just got home after witnessing the debacle. Someone earlier asked, "Wheres's Pete????" I sat next to him through the entire sad display. To suggest that he was dismayed by what he saw would be a gross understatement. Yesterday was the annual Athletic Give Day, which raised about 2.5 million for Tiger sports in 24 hours, over 100k for basketball. One prominent alum was heard at halftime to wonder aloud if he could get his $5000 back. I'm not sure he was kidding.

 
Vonsid 
Freshman
Posts: 58

Age: 50
Reg: 03-12-16
Lehigh
11-30-17 02:25 AM - Post#238496    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

2.5 mil and only 100kish to basketball? That's pretty pathetic actually.

Edited by Vonsid on 11-30-17 02:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3525

Reg: 02-04-06
11-30-17 05:28 AM - Post#238497    
    In response to Vonsid

It's sort of hard to evaluate individuals when the problems appear team related. For example, Gladson made the ball move better than anyone else tonight, playing out of the high post and looking for teammates and hitting them on the move (unfortunately a blown layup on his best pass). But if they don't cut without the ball, that style isn't as effective. Morales had the best ball pressure on D, but until the rest of the team felt the urgency and got up on their men it wasn't that effective because it was easy to pass out of that discomfort.

The coaching decisions that I think MH needs to make are a commitment to moving the ball before going one-on-one and more defensive harassment around the ball by a variety of means.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19003

Reg: 11-21-04
11-30-17 09:08 AM - Post#238504    
    In response to TigerFan

Just to comment on SRP's observation of "1970s NBA" as being all iso's, that's about 20 years off. The '70s were the decade of the Knicks with Frazier, Bradley, Reed and Co, always moving the ball....the Celtics with Cowens similarly moving, etc. The iso's occurred 20 years later with Ewing, Jordan, and those guys.

 
jeromelh 
Freshman
Posts: 37

Age: 76
Reg: 03-30-17
11-30-17 09:12 AM - Post#238505    
    In response to palestra38

I believe that MH is trying to find the correct 5 players to put on the court. This team is going to get a lot better. We just have to patient. I am excited about Much. I don't know if you noticed, but he is an excellent passer. He is going to be a star in the league.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1481
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 68
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
11-30-17 09:27 AM - Post#238507    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
Amir Bell is a wonderful young man but I do not believe that he has strong leadership skills even though he has taken on the role of Spencer Weisz.



Hmm. I agree with this and your other observations, but what to do? Lots of thoughts floating through my mind.

Bell SHOULD be the on court leader of this team with his talent and experience, but he hasn't stepped up. But turning the team over to Cannady would only diminish his energy for his 3 point shooting, and further expose his only average passing skills. Instead, I think coach needs to challenge Bell to keep pushing the ball and keep shooting. He has hesitated to shoot the 3, so when he had a wide open 3 at the end of the game, he missed.

Sitting Stephens might not have the desired effect--not everyone responds as well as Bell did last year to being benched for a while.

I assume Gladson will find his stroke, but honestly I mostly missed Aririguzoh last night. Any explanation why he got so little PT?

I was more dismayed by the defense in the first half than the offense, even though the offense was horrible.



 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
11-30-17 09:52 AM - Post#238510    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Your last sentence - dead on - defense comes first. Last year's team experienced an awakening after the St. Joe's team. This year's team, younger, may not happen but it is early. The experience of watching how well, gritty and tough last year's played is a testament to the coaches and players including Weisz, Cook and Miller.

Amazingly, the IL as a whole has not progressed this year. There are brief moments but it has been an unimpressive start. Amazingly, Yale seems to be digging in its' heels which is a testament to Coach Jones and Oni seems to be stepping up - another 2 star recruit. Cornell, Brown, sometimes Penn and Columbia show flashes and Harvard will probably gets it act together but so far, the League as a whole, certainly including Princeton, is unimpressive. The only bright spot for the Tigers may be the level of play of league teams in qualifying to play in March at the Palestra -- sad but true?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19003

Reg: 11-21-04
Lehigh
11-30-17 10:06 AM - Post#238514    
    In response to bradley

Princeton in particular, lost critical players to graduation, Harvard is young, Yale has been devastated by injuries and Penn is trying to step up a level.

It's early. Far too early to read into how the best Ivy teams will be playing in February.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
11-30-17 10:40 AM - Post#238526    
    In response to bradley

The "awakening" is rather simple to explain, at least after the fact. Henry Caruso decided to leave the team (a sinking ship at that point) to preserve a year of D1 eligibility in CA, clearing the way for Myles Stephens. At almost the same time Amir Bell's play returned to "normal". The rotation now set, the League schedule lay ahead.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1481
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 68
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
11-30-17 11:23 AM - Post#238536    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Much may prove to be a Cook replacement--shoot the 3 or go strong to the hoop.

Gladson/Aririguzoh could possibly replace Miller.

But who is the team leader with the ball in his hands? (The Weisz replacement.) I would like to see Stephens in that role, but he needs to start shooting the 3 with confidence, and dishing off the double.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
11-30-17 11:56 AM - Post#238547    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Post game interview with Henderson and Cannady was interesting.

Henderson was disgusted/outraged as he singled out the lack of effort -- time for the team to wake up. Tigers have gotten off to a slow start two years in a row. Coach should stop with the platitudes preseason, i.e. media day, and keep these guys on their toes. On media day, he called Stephens a shutdown defender but he has not played like one.

Cannady basically stated that he was disgusted with first half effort and he was not going to accept it.

May be an important first step but why even the need. Old coach motto "Play confident but play scared about the other team".

 
westcoast 
Freshman
Posts: 90

Reg: 03-08-16
11-30-17 02:24 PM - Post#238573    
    In response to bradley

On the offensive side, three point shooting has become a problem for this year's team (aside from Cannady, who has been incredible). Last year, Princeton had three high volume three-point shooters (>4 TPA/game) in Cannady, Cook, and Weisz, and two others in Stephens and Bell who would fire up 2-3 per game.

This year, outside of Cannady's amazing 59%, the rest of the team is shooting only 29% on threes, and there was clear hesitation in taking open threes from Stephens, Bell, Schwieger, and others. The number of attempts per game has dropped from 26 to 22. Much (5-12, 42%), Brennan (3-6, 50%), and Morales (2-5, 40%) are the only other players shooting over 33% in the very small sample size so far. Princeton probably needs at least one more consistent, high volume outside shooter to step up - I think Much and Bell are probably the best bets.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3525

Reg: 02-04-06
11-30-17 02:37 PM - Post#238574    
    In response to bradley

A few thoughts in response:

--This team still has huge upside. The talent is there, including the freshmen. I am still optimistic.

--The new style of coaching nationally (apparently based on player/family expectations) is to be as upbeat as possible rather than critical and curmudgeonly. Hence it is only after visible failure that negative sentiment toward team and player effort and mental shortfalls can be expressed.

--Bell has always been described by his coaches (high school and college) as a leader, someone who took the initiative to get other players to practice hard, etc. Last night he led by example at a minimum in the second half in shutting Lehigh down defensively. But when he misses layups and threes, he seems to lose offensive confidence and does not direct traffic very much, leading to some bad possessions.

--Last year's resurgence was not merely a lineup change (and can we please stop the insinuations about the stalwart Henry Caruso's alleged scheming?). The team dramatically slowed its pace of play and became much faster and more consistent with help defense.

--I agree with P38 that the '90s were an era of isos, but the Bulls' triangle and the Sonics and Jazz were pass-happy offenses. Similarly in the '70s, the best teams moved the ball a lot (also the 1975 Warriors champs), but there was a great contrast with run-of-the-mill play by the bilk of the league.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
11-30-17 04:12 PM - Post#238596    
    In response to SRP

Gee whiz, I wasn't insinuating. I believe what I stated to be factual.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3525

Reg: 02-04-06
11-30-17 04:40 PM - Post#238603    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

You are throwing shade without being specific and without evidence. He faked an injury? He had told MH he was transferring before the injury?

The guy was not a touted recruit, helped save a lost season when MH finally inserted him into the lineup, refined his game to become a more efficient player, did a lot of the dirty work on the court, and played hurt. He wasn't losing PT until the injury. And he transferred to his Dad's school (to a worse team). The picture of him you are indeed insinuating doesn't match the public record.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
11-30-17 05:00 PM - Post#238606    
    In response to SRP

The evidence I have supports what I have said. If I didn't have evidence I would not say it. The fact that he wanted to preserve a year of eligibility is not a big deal to me and it is not a criticism of the kid. I did not state that he "faked an injury." I don't know what the "public record" is on this case, and frankly it's not particularly relevant at this point. It is by no means unusual for a kid who is injured to leave a team to save eligibility. Denton Koon did it at Princeton. Rosenberg did it at Columbia.Koon graduated and played at Hofstra. A financial decision in my opinion. Rosenberg returned to Columbia because the financial issue was not a factor to him. I guess "throwing shade" is not a good thing.

 
Eric Von Zipper 
Freshman
Posts: 69

Age: 65
Reg: 11-11-17
11-30-17 10:11 PM - Post#238627    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

They are shooting 70.9% from the charity stripe; opponents 82.9%.

Nuff said.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19003

Reg: 11-21-04
12-01-17 09:05 AM - Post#238639    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

I'd happily take 71% over at the Palestra.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
12-01-17 05:40 PM - Post#238711    
    In response to SRP

Going be another tough weekend for the IL in all likelihood with HYP playing top 25 teams. Yale is a 14pt undergo to #23 TCU, Harvard is 19 1/2 pt underdog to #7 Kentucky and Tigers will probably be a 20 pt underdog to #10 Miami. Needless to say, all teams on the road. It should be interesting if one of the teams can contest a game for at least the first half or more.

Hopefully, you learn from facing challenges. Let's hope Tigers, Crimson and Bulldogs show some life. IL needs it. If not the IL Tournament team will have this type of opposition in the 1st round at the Big Dance.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3525

Reg: 02-04-06
12-01-17 06:10 PM - Post#238713    
    In response to bradley

Let's be optimistic and hope the Tigers were looking ahead to Miami before Wednesday's game and will put forth a good performance against the big boys in Florida.

 
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