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Username Post: Lafayette        (Topic#20797)
mbaprof 
Sophomore
Posts: 131

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-07-17 09:09 AM - Post#239454    
    In response to penn nation

I thought the broadcast was nice with lots of local color, technically it worked quite well with my ipad and apple tv. NO complaints after Howard and it was free! Did not stick around for post game


 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3864

Reg: 11-21-04
12-07-17 09:36 AM - Post#239456    
    In response to Penndemonium

I agree with Pennfan10 that it is unlikely to see any major changes in the rotation. In fact, I'm happy that it seems so settled at this point in the season after so much turmoil in past years.

The Howard and Lafayette games are precursors to the type of games we are likely to see once the Ivy season comes around. This team is imperfect and will need to play defense every night and battle, but the intensity level is good, the team chemistry is also good and the ball movement is so much better than it's been the past few years.

We are going to have some good shooting nights and some not so good shooting nights. The ability to compete at the top of the league will depend on how we compete on those nights where we shoot the ball poorly.

Like everyone else, I recognize that the Achilles heal is FT shooting which is an essential component in closing out games. It's perplexing. We don't have that 90% FT shooter who can control the scoreboard at the end of the game. In fact - we have just the opposite. Can we address this? I don't know. But it's a weakness.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
12-07-17 09:41 AM - Post#239457    
    In response to mbaprof

Broadcast was great. Announcing team did a super job - objective, followed the game, bothered to learn about the opposing team, including how to pronounce names - stuff that should be commonplace but unfortunately isn't.

I'm going to agree with P38 and defend Antonio Woods. He never takes a play off on the offensive or defensive end, generally makes good decisions, doesn't turn the ball over, and plays the game with zero sense of entitlement. He was on the court late because we had the lead and he's trusted for his defense and to not do anything stupid on offense. I'm OK with that.


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
12-07-17 09:45 AM - Post#239458    
    In response to TheLine

Oh, and now that Wood is finally getting the playing time he deserves do we now need a FREE SAM JONES movement? I don't know what he needs to do to earn more PT. He's a great shooter, gobbles rebounds and advanced metrics say he isn't hurting the defense.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1765

Reg: 02-15-15
12-07-17 10:27 AM - Post#239464    
    In response to TheLine

Advanced metrics definitely say he won’t hurt us defensively when he isn’t playing. I don’t know how the metrics can be reliable for a guy with spotty playing time over two years. He obviously isn’t a regular because of defense. That said I like having him out there.

 
yoyo 
Junior
Posts: 206

Reg: 03-25-09
12-07-17 10:38 AM - Post#239466    
    In response to penn nation

Can we get Steve Danley to teach Max how to finish around the rim?

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3864

Reg: 11-21-04
12-07-17 10:45 AM - Post#239467    
    In response to PennFan10

Individual DRAT stats are poor indicators. I think even Mike James would admit that they reflect more on the team effort as opposed to the individual's effort.

The pattern with both Jackson and Sam is if they get in a game and jack up that 26 foot clanger within seconds, they are headed to the bench. If it goes in (a rarity) - well that's a different story. If they find their shots within the flow of the offense, they are far more successful and often help the team and stay on the court longer.

Having said that, neither plays very good defense so those shots better fall. Further - Caleb Wood is actually a pretty decent defender who can easily become an above average defender and does what they do well even better. so IMHO, the coach is utilizing all three appropriately. What obviously impacts PT in individual games is our foul situation. If Ryan picks up two quick ones, PT for role players at the wing position expands. Complicating matters is Eddie Scott's role when he's healthy, although I think he is better suited as a 3/4 than Sam is and impacts Sam's PT more than Jackson's.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
12-07-17 11:02 AM - Post#239468    
    In response to AsiaSunset

You guys aren't saying anything we don't already know.

But Sam does have a real nice outside shot, has been doing a nice job on the boards, and as much as he has a rep as a weak defender - and I'm not saying it isn't deserved - the fact is that he hasn't hurt the defense either. I don't know what we have to lose by extending his minutes. We play too many minutes of games with only one outside threat on the court - is that winning basketball?


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18648

Reg: 11-21-04
12-07-17 11:11 AM - Post#239469    
    In response to TheLine

If that team with only one shooter is the far superior defensive team (which is what we saw against LaSalle and Towson), there are times we have to go that route. Clearly, it is better to have 2 outside options than one on offense. It also is better to not let the other team outscore you.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
Lafayette
12-07-17 11:25 AM - Post#239470    
    In response to palestra38

There are going to be times when playing a lineup of 3 defense first players and and 2 good but not great offensive players isn't going to cut it. Plus I'd think either Woods or Foreman would be more effective if they had more options. That lineup is a big reason why the offense stagnates.

Better to expand Jones' role now and see how it goes. Maybe we lose less on defense than you'd think. We certainly pick up a lot on offense.

Some of the best moments of the game were when Penn had multiple outside scorers on the court together. Lafayette couldn't deal with it. Someone was always open.


Edited by TheLine on 12-07-17 11:27 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3864

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Lafayette
12-07-17 11:35 AM - Post#239472    
    In response to TheLine

Betley is often on the court with another shooter. And Caleb Wood is often that guy and the first sub off the bench replacing either Darnell or Antonio.

It's true there are times when we have only one shooter on the court, but just as often are the times we see miss after miss from the guys we consider our shooters.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7661

Reg: 12-07-04
12-07-17 11:41 AM - Post#239473    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:
I'm going to agree with P38 and defend Antonio Woods. He never takes a play off on the offensive or defensive end, generally makes good decisions, doesn't turn the ball over, and plays the game with zero sense of entitlement. He was on the court late because we had the lead and he's trusted for his defense and to not do anything stupid on offense. I'm OK with that.



Did I miss the part where I criticized the kid? Is what I said wrong? When the other team has no choice but to foul, why in the world wouldn't you go offense defense when you could? You then get him back in for the eventual free throw miss so he can play D. I am one of the biggest Antonio fans you'll find and have been arguing with Jeff for years on the great debate.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
12-07-17 11:42 AM - Post#239474    
    In response to AsiaSunset

And Caleb was buried on the bench to start the season. He was an afterthought.

Jones is a .375 career 3 point shooter. In close to 400 attempts. This isn't a small sample size, he's legitimately good at it.

Is your argument that we should bury Jones on the bench?


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
Lafayette
12-07-17 11:46 AM - Post#239475    
    In response to Quakers03

I'm just agreeing with P38 and complementing what Woods is doing right, that's all.

Sometimes we all spend time harping on what the players are doing wrong and not enough on what they are doing right. After having to endure what we did during the dark years, I appreciate a guy like Woods who has his head in the game all the time.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1765

Reg: 02-15-15
12-07-17 11:48 AM - Post#239477    
    In response to TheLine

The argument is that Caleb is just as good a 3pt shooter and does more for the team. Sam can shoot the rock, no doubt, but he can't do anything else on offense (can't beat anyone off the dribble, can't play in the paint, not particularly a good passer) he is only effective if his guy has to double someone else or we get a defensive rotation lapse because he only shoots a stand still 3. That's a pretty limited skill set on offense. On defense he pursues the ball off the boards effectively so can be helpful but he struggles to stay in front of anyone and isn't physical enough to push a 4/5 off their spot on a switch so he limits the defensive options, regardless of advance metrics.

I am a big Sam Jones fan and would love to see him more but I can definitely see why SD struggles to keep him on the floor for long stretches, particularly vs man defense.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7661

Reg: 12-07-04
12-07-17 11:55 AM - Post#239481    
    In response to TheLine

You'll hear no arguments from me. The floater he hit in the lane was a big one (as opposed to other guards who can't hit rim on those shots), and as I said in the thread, the back to back 3's that he set hit and then set-up changed the game.

What do we think has happened to Devon?

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3864

Reg: 11-21-04
12-07-17 12:02 PM - Post#239482    
    In response to TheLine

"Is your argument that we should bury Jones on the bench?"

Pretty much so. We have much better options. PT opens up when those better options get in foul trouble early.

Last night Betley played 35 minutes and Caleb 26. Jackson played 18. Sam got a little time and delivered - but, of course, there was no Eddie Scott option available.

 
SteveDanley 
Freshman
Posts: 96

Age: 33
Reg: 02-25-12
12-07-17 12:03 PM - Post#239483    
    In response to yoyo

  • yoyo Said:
Can we get Steve Danley to teach Max how to finish around the rim?



Nostalgia is getting out of hand when folks remember me as a good finisher

I've talked to or worked with one or two of the bigs over the last few years -- not Max though -- but it's harder to do it regularly now that I'm not on campus as much, and it's a little more complicated in season.


 
SteveDanley 
Freshman
Posts: 96

Age: 33
Reg: 02-25-12
12-07-17 12:06 PM - Post#239485    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
The argument is that Caleb is just as good a 3pt shooter and does more for the team. Sam can shoot the rock, no doubt, but he can't do anything else on offense (can't beat anyone off the dribble, can't play in the paint, not particularly a good passer) he is only effective if his guy has to double someone else or we get a defensive rotation lapse because he only shoots a stand still 3. That's a pretty limited skill set on offense. On defense he pursues the ball off the boards effectively so can be helpful but he struggles to stay in front of anyone and isn't physical enough to push a 4/5 off their spot on a switch so he limits the defensive options, regardless of advance metrics.

I am a big Sam Jones fan and would love to see him more but I can definitely see why SD struggles to keep him on the floor for long stretches, particularly vs man defense.



I could only watch in bits and pieces last night - but I think Coach D has a struggle in that his best shooting lineups really do give up a lot of athleticism. Feels like we have to play either/or sometimes -- last night against Lafayette we could get away with having fewer of our best athletes/defenders on the court. It let us play with more shooting.

It's a tough puzzle.


 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7661

Reg: 12-07-04
12-07-17 12:09 PM - Post#239487    
    In response to SteveDanley

Steve, what are your thoughts on AJ and his left hand? I don't remember it being this egregious last year, but maybe it was? It's almost like he's completely afraid to use it. When you're going up with the right on a clear lefty layup, something isn't right.

 
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