candyfan
Masters Student
Posts: 459
Reg: 01-10-10
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12-07-17 05:02 PM - Post#239558
It's not the offense, the players in particular nor the economy.
Coach Davis and K.Mackenzie, N.Jones and M.O'Reilly all went on record today confirming that their defense needs an upgrade, something most of us suspected, especially in the Northeastern and St. Joe's games.
Of course, the assumption is that this team can get it back (on defense) with practice and concentration. They've done it before. They can do it again.
The inclination of many if not most players is to shoot and score. Playing better defense in the two mentioned games might have gotten a Bucknell victory instead of what they appeared to be doing - trying to outscore those two teams?
Comments welcomed.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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12-07-17 06:27 PM - Post#239570
In response to candyfan
AMEN!
New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-07-17 07:47 PM - Post#239579
In response to Bison89
10 games in. Too many points allowed in all 10. Time to stop talking and start doing. Maybe CND should have a cup of coffee with CPF, though I can’t imagine he hasn’t already.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
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12-07-17 08:38 PM - Post#239585
In response to bison63
Davis is an experienced coach. He can figure this out. Given the pace they play, this team isn't going to hold opponents to 40 points.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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It's the DEFENSE, stupid! 12-07-17 09:35 PM - Post#239592
In response to jkrun80
Given the pace they play, this team isn't going to hold opponents to 40 points.
Yes, that's definitely true - which is why they need to be judged by points allowed per possession. Unfortunately they have been so-so in that category this year - significantly worse than last year (although Pomeroy doesn't fully account for the differences in strength of schedule).
2017-18 Nation Ranking in Points Allowed per Possession = 199th
2016-17 Ranking = 83rd (incl PL games)
There are several areas at the defensive end where things have been worse than last year's performance in OOC games - although I had to do a bit of estimating to get the OOC numbers:
Opponent's 3-pt pct:
36.1% this year
39.0% last year (est)
Opponent's 2-pt pct:
53.1% this year
44.5% last year (est)
BU pct of defensive rebounds:
69.0% last year
68.0% this year (est)
Pct of possessions with BU steal:
10.2% last year
6.0% this year (est)
Pct of possessions with opponent turnover:
19.0% last year
16.6% this year (est)
I think it's pretty clear that there are problems with the 2-point FG pct allowed and with the pct of steals. Much worse than last year in both areas.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
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Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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12-07-17 10:39 PM - Post#239596
In response to Bison137
I may be in the minority but I have not seen Nana or anyone else be anything close to a consistent inside presence on defense. This shows in the high two point shooting % allowed and a seemingly high number of offensive rebounds allowed. Coach Davis always says what a bonus it is to have Nana inside take up space and make guys think about control by inside but it doesn’t seem to be reality at this point. Nana is often outside the lane area chasing guys around and can’t be a factor inside.
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Paulie777
PhD Student
Posts: 1767
Reg: 11-11-07
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12-08-17 12:17 AM - Post#239601
In response to MrPhillie
I may be in the minority but I have not seen Nana or anyone else be anything close to a consistent inside presence on defense. This shows in the high two point shooting % allowed and a seemingly high number of offensive rebounds allowed. Coach Davis always says what a bonus it is to have Nana inside take up space and make guys think about control by inside but it doesn’t seem to be reality at this point. Nana is often outside the lane area chasing guys around and can’t be a factor inside.
This is true Phillie. Nana is conspicuously on the outside on offense and defense, a departure from last year. They seem bent on giving Nana some jumpshots and are trying to give him a 3 point opportunity, effectively throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Get him back where he was last year, where he was successful. I understand trying new things, but if it aint broke don't fix it. And others need to take a page out of Kimball playbook and take a charge now and then. I would also start Sestina in place of Moore. At any rate we will be tough to beat starting Patriot league. But make some adjustments please.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-08-17 12:50 AM - Post#239603
In response to Paulie777
I may be in the minority but I have not seen Nana or anyone else be anything close to a consistent inside presence on defense. This shows in the high two point shooting % allowed and a seemingly high number of offensive rebounds allowed. Coach Davis always says what a bonus it is to have Nana inside take up space and make guys think about control by inside but it doesn’t seem to be reality at this point. Nana is often outside the lane area chasing guys around and can’t be a factor inside.
This is true Phillie. Nana is conspicuously on the outside on offense and defense, a departure from last year. They seem bent on giving Nana some jumpshots and are trying to give him a 3 point opportunity, effectively throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Get him back where he was last year, where he was successful. I understand trying new things, but if it aint broke don't fix it. And others need to take a page out of Kimball playbook and take a charge now and then. I would also start Sestina in place of Moore. At any rate we will be tough to beat starting Patriot league. But make some adjustments please.
Nana's positioning is generally the same as last year, posting up the great majority of the time. What is different is the team's spacing doesn't seem to be as good this year, making it easier for the opponents to sag in on him, either to deny an entry pass or to make it impossible for him to take a jump hook. But he definitely doesn't seem to be as active as last year. His rebound rates, pct of blocked shots, and FG pct are all down significantly.
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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It's the DEFENSE, stupid! 12-08-17 10:37 AM - Post#239613
In response to Bison137
Could Nana be testing his skills to play at the next level? Not to sound repetitive but a jump shot and developing a game beyond 10 feet would be required
Edited by HuskyColonial on 12-08-17 10:45 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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Re: It's the DEFENSE, stupid! 12-08-17 10:56 AM - Post#239615
In response to HuskyColonial
Could Nana be testing his skills to play at the next level? Not to sound repetitive but a jump shot and developing a game beyond 10 feet would be required
I suspect that is a factor. They may be trying to expand his skill set both to help the team later in the season and to improve his opportunities to play professionally.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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It's the DEFENSE, stupid! 12-08-17 12:55 PM - Post#239642
In response to Bison137
I agree that on offense he is generally doing the same things, aside from adding an occasional jump shot. I was referring to his inside presence on defense. He certainly still plays inside but appears, anyway, to be many other places which allows opponents easier baskets. And even when he’s inside, Nana and for that matter any Bison, does not seem to offer as much resistance as in the past. Perhaps it’s just my perception because we give up a lot of points in general.
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BisonFan4
Junior
Posts: 211
Age: 45
Reg: 12-30-16
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12-08-17 01:52 PM - Post#239649
In response to MrPhillie
I agree Paulie777, I've been saying I want to see them play Zach Nate and Nana together. I'm hoping they'll experiment with that as the starting lineup these next 2 games.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-08-17 03:13 PM - Post#239664
In response to BisonFan4
I agree Paulie777, I've been saying I want to see them play Zach Nate and Nana together. I'm hoping they'll experiment with that as the starting lineup these next 2 games.
That might well be a good lineup. However there are two related issues:
(1) Nate is the backup at the four and the five. If he starts, it creates problems with the rotations' and
(2) Nate averages a very high 6.6 fouls per 40 minutes. Realistically that limits his minutes significantly even if he starts. And if he starts and gets in quick foul trouble, then who goes in at center when Nana needs to come out? Newman is not ready at this point.
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BisonFan4
Junior
Posts: 211
Age: 45
Reg: 12-30-16
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12-08-17 05:52 PM - Post#239712
In response to Bison137
Yeah, the rotation/foul issue would be my only concern. However, with Sestina starting & seeing more pt I would like to believe he would get more comfortable & better defensively & less likely to foul as much. I mean lets be realistic here, there has been maybe one game where Nate was used enough for his fouls to even be a factor.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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It's the DEFENSE, stupid! 12-08-17 06:25 PM - Post#239717
In response to BisonFan4
there has been maybe one game where Nate was used enough for his fouls to even be a factor.
His lack of minutes has been partly due to the foul problems. There have actually been five games where Nate had to be taken out in the first half due to foul trouble: Monmouth, Maryland, Siena, Vermont, and Northeastern. In all but the Siena game, the two fouls came relatively early and left them without a strong backup center for anywhere from 8-13 minutes. Had he been seeing more time at PF, it is very likely that the foul issues would be worse.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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12-08-17 07:10 PM - Post#239722
In response to Bison137
Yes Nate is seemingly carrying on the banner of “the human foul machine†from DJ last year. Some fouls are bad calls but no matter, he has to do a better job in that regard.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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12-08-17 07:29 PM - Post#239723
In response to MrPhillie
And having Zach or Nate defending a wing or guard would be dangerous.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 03:53 PM - Post#240209
In response to jkrun80
137 - Those are amazing numbers to have assembled. I'm not sure if they have any value diagnostically however as they are blended. On a pragmatic basis in evaluating W's and L's such a static overview doesn't account for competitive games play out. The NE game had the appearance of a really awful effort and the final score gives a lot of credence to such a takeaway. I was on GMT rather than EST and I can tell you that if you stayed up for the start at midnight you weren't coming away impressed. I only watched until slightly later than the 9-2 run that started the 2nd half. That said, the game was tied at 28 at the 5:00 mark of the first half and I checked back on ESPN and looked at the "game flow" and see that we were down 11 with circa 10 minutes left and it hung there for awhile --- meaning we had chances and they made a run instead of us.
If you are evaluating the defense it clearly hasn't been good all year and it is why I sometimes get frustrated when we stay with the "system" rather than approach tactically. THe reality though is that games aren't played in a vacuum and the by-product of your defense sometimes is exactly the result of what the other guys did to you. Monmouth isolated our guards, kept their 'bigs' on the box and controlled tempo. NE really ran a lot of motion and attacked us at multiple angles. They ran ball screens from the weak side of the court. They ran ball screens that just didn't involve the 1 & the 5. They used scissor cuts and back and cross screens and they kept really good spacing and when possession changed they went immediately to offensive transition with pace and put straight to the basket pressure on us. We could have made a run but we couldn't get stops when required and that's the important takeaway. Our defense never put us in a position where we could have won the game offensively.
Also at issue is guarding NE is different than playing teams like UoM and UNC where physicality becomes a totally separate issue. I wish I had a point in here somewhere but I guess my point is you have to look at the defense two ways; individually and holistically (i.e., what is our defensive philosophy)
Speaking individually we are at a disadvantage. MO, JM, ND and JS do not have the foot speed and toughness of KM and Avi. I realize Zach's been carrying us on his shoulder's but his defense at NE was poor. Pusica (#4) was a lot like Persons on Ball State and SB really struggled with him. We struggle with physical guards (think Monmouth) which is a change. We used to struggle with small quick guards in the Kasper, Fraser era. PL play and KM and Avi back will solve some problems.
Holistically and with respect to NE I knew we were in trouble on the first three possession. One the first Sotos got hard screened and there was no hedge/Nana looked at a guy take a 14 foot jumper. On the second SB got hard hard screened there was no hedge and Zach watched #4 drive uncontested. On the third, they side inbounded and JS didn't seem to know who his man was. One pass straight to the corner for a 3. So that this doesn't turn into War & Peace suffice to say we struggle mightily with the Pick & Roll. Other takeaways at a general level and these are only my observations based on seeing a number of games (but at the very real danger of not having the benefit of doing post game tape breakdown - i.e., evaluate every possession)
- we overcompensate weak side help (i.e., we get too far off our primary man responsibility and can't recover)
- there is no consistent approach to defending the P&R...NF and NS do a good job hard hedging while Bruce and JS often switch. Zach is always trailing his primary responsibility so is never in position to hedge if he even had an inclination. When we hard hedge with our 5 & our 1 we are under constant pressure because JS and SB have problems holding the screener.
- we jump the screen with our guards at the key which puts a lot of pressure on the screen defender (usually a big) and often takes Nana out of an anchor position. We should confine jumping the screen to the sideline and funnel to the baseline for help
- Following on from above I think we have gotten better at building a baseline wall, especially in the first half at NE and then lost all semblance in the second half.
VCU looked awful against the Hall but they are really good. They have scale and are physical but think we offset there strengths well. Got to get to the line more which is tough an the road. Should be a good game and we're going to get healthier and that NEVER HURTS!!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE VERY OLD BISON
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 04:00 PM - Post#240213
In response to Old Bison
Forgot the general impression that we got killed in transition at NE. we were consistently at a numbers disadvatge. NS was a particular culpit
Note...I meant Hall is really good...not VCU is really good although I suspect they are better than they looked in that won. I haven;t looked at there W-L and who they have played
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 04:09 PM - Post#240217
In response to Old Bison
One thing I meant to add is that you can break everything down and get to paralysis through analysis very quickly...and don't think that's ND's style and philosophy.
The only way I know how to play defense is that each individual on the BU squad has to try a little introspection and DECIDE. The Latin root of the word decide means "to cut off any other possibility". Defense is about individual pride. Its about helping when you can but taking complete and total responsibility that your going to hold your man SCORELESS and that anything he gets is gravy because he earned it. 100% inspiration and perspiration. Jay W really knows how to wring that towel and its a mindset.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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12-14-17 04:24 PM - Post#240220
In response to Old Bison
MO, JM, ND and JS do not have the foot speed and toughness of KM
Wow, how bewildering a sentence is this to try to decrypt? I hope my decoder ring arrives in today's mail.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 04:49 PM - Post#240227
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
and Avi
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 04:52 PM - Post#240228
In response to Old Bison
ND was supposed to be NJ...Ha!, a lot more foot speed than ND
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 08:57 PM - Post#240246
In response to Old Bison
Btw - it’s a pretty simple sentence so I don’t know what’s so bewildering. They say red heads aren’t that smart - maybe you need more than a decoder ring.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-14-17 09:59 PM - Post#240249
In response to Old Bison
Last year we started the season ranked around 180 in Pomeroy and worked our way to the top 100. This year we started ranked 70 something in Pomeroy and now are about to work our way out of the top 100 (99) as this is written. Paralysis by analysis is a definite possibility so I will go with the old Parcellsism “ you are what your record says you are.â€
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 10:18 PM - Post#240250
In response to bison63
As I said previously - high expectations present a challenge in and of itself. I think the majority of us sensibly conjectured that a 5-6 win OOC schedule was a solid result. I specifically pointed out that the opener had an outsized importance given the next three road games. We are at 4-6 and if we can squeeze 1 or 2 out of the next three it’s still a very solid result. When you factor in the loss of KM and Avi its outstanding. VCU lost at home by 4 to Texas and I was shocked by how well they played against Duke. Tomorrow obviously won’t be easy but that’s why to got to play the game. We’ll worry about the next one after this one. The reality is we’re not really that deep when you take KM and Avi out of the mix. We’ll be fine...keep the faith my brother. Nobody sensible should have thought we were coming out of this 7-6. What was the result of the poll that was posted?
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-14-17 11:36 PM - Post#240252
In response to Old Bison
On second thought, If we can upset VCU there’s absolutely no reason we can’t get to 7-6 as LaSalle is at least at Sojka. Given the loss at Monmouth 6-7 down two starters is a job well done. One at a time...see what bounces the ball takes Saturday night. “Come on up for the Risingâ€. #atVCU...I don’t do Twitter- is that how it works?
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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12-15-17 12:48 AM - Post#240254
In response to Old Bison
Btw - it’s a pretty simple sentence so I don’t know what’s so bewildering..
The initials are mind-boggling, at least for me. Investing a few more keystrokes in spelling names would go a long way.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-15-17 08:16 AM - Post#240256
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Got it. I’ve been a fan and supporter of the BU Men’s Basketball program for 37 years. This is the first year I have posted although I read commentary in the past. I couldn’t get my head around the fact that I would be talking about the very program I have so much passion for and including direct commentary on our kids and coaches in a forum that is easily accessible. Eventually I came to the conclusion that anybody playing or coaching at this level has a lot tougher skin than to be affected by what is ultimately trivial and that in the age of social media this is merely a new way to interact and enjoy that passion. There exists no other industry where the Monday morning QB-ing is so severe, although there are blogs and bulletin boards around stocks and qtrly earnings reports I suspect might be a lot more vitriolic. I normally post the day after each game so as to invoke at least a “12 hour rule†that may obviate saying something in disappointment and frustration that I would regret. It took me 10 days to post any commentary on the NE game. As you can tell from the last 24 hours my desk is a lot cleaner. We may or may not win at VCU but I’m highly confident that our guys are happy to have exams behind them and are ready to compete tomorrow night. I don’t know who Kenpom and Pomeroy are but I do know that Bucknell has had great success over a number of years and that a tradition started with Woolum and has extended thru PF, DP and ND to today and that it has to be nurtured, protected and supported to be extended. Nothing is self sufficient. Please no commentary from biology majors about some organism I never heard of! I will add along those lines that I’m shocked by the number of former players that have enjoyed the benefit of being a member of that tradition and have turned their back in “giving backâ€. I don’t need to invoke the “12 hour rule†on that.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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12-15-17 12:10 PM - Post#240265
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Btw - it’s a pretty simple sentence so I don’t know what’s so bewildering..
The initials are mind-boggling, at least for me. Investing a few more keystrokes in spelling names would go a long way.
BRW, OB is OK by me.
(Bison Road Warrior, Old Bison is okay by me.)
No honestly, I am not a big fan of writing with initials. I would prefer a first and last name or at least a last name.
New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-15-17 01:33 PM - Post#240270
In response to Bison89
I just hate referencing the kids at all when saying someone didn't defend well or shoot it well etc., I guess if I initial them I feel less like I'm talking about them behind their back even if its easily discernible. I should probably try to just post without any mention of personnel but it's tough to do. This is my first time around posting so maybe I just need to work on just staying very general. But that's kind of like being a coach and not yelling to me! (Nate does a great job publicly so there's hope). We're due a good one BRW!
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-15-17 03:18 PM - Post#240281
In response to Old Bison
OB, with reference to your comments about 5 or 6 wins being about what we should have expected, I could not agree more. In fact I said 6. But given the way we lost to MD, with a complete second half collapse, and the way we lost to St Joes and NE, combined with the defensive deficiencies we have seen all season, I think there is cause for concern. 5 or 6 wins playing competitively is one thing, but the 3 games I mentioned make me wonder. These last 3 games are very important, because if we wait till the PL to start winning we will not know if we fixed our problems or won only because of the weaker competition. That is IF we start winning in the PL.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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12-15-17 09:39 PM - Post#240290
In response to bison63
I thought we would win 7, possibly 8, but I am an eternal optimist. Still, it was not unreasonable. I thought we would win against:
Monmouth
Maryland
Siena
Ball St.
Stony Brook or St. Joe's
Northeastern
Richmond
LaSalle
Vermont was a toss-up.
I was off the mark on Northeastern. Remains to be seen if we can win 2 of the next 3. All three are winnable, but we need to play D and have more than the "big 3" scoring.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-15-17 10:55 PM - Post#240293
In response to jkrun80
Not at all unreasonable. When you look at the games we lost badly only 1 of the 3 was to a power conf team. Two bad losses to teams we should have probably beaten is the real killer thus far.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-15-17 11:11 PM - Post#240295
In response to jkrun80
63 - all valid points...got to get healthy and work it out. All coaches I talked to about the Bison had the same comment - “guys hurt now better than February and better to struggle early than lateâ€.
JK - I wouldn’t have considered 7 out of the question but 8 given the level of the opposition and the fact that 9 games were on the road does validate your a glass 🥃 half full guy! Good way to go thru life btw! I had Monmouth as a high probability win which would have put us at .500. Losing the opener and two starters has put us slightly behind the 8 ball. Win tomorrow and all of a sudden we’re wearing a new pair of glasses 🤞
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-15-17 11:28 PM - Post#240296
In response to Old Bison
63 - Tough to beat decent/good clubs on the road. I think we would have beaten both of them at Sojka...and if my aunt had grape 🇠nuts she’d be my uncle...right?
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-16-17 01:35 AM - Post#240301
In response to Old Bison
OB, this team came into the season with some people thinking it could maybe advance to the Sweet 16. The past Bison teams that won games in the Dance won or were competitive in games that this team is losing. The WVU game last year was what prompted the idea these guys could go somewhere special. I said on multiple occasions on this board that Kimbal was the key, just as he was vs WVU. But, due to injury Kimbal has not been a factor this year. Without him, best case scenario is we are a good PL team. Of course the loss of Zach, Nana or Stephen would be crippling as well, but my going in hopes were based on the assumption that Zach would be Zach, Nana would be Nana, and Stephen would be Stephen. The X factor was Kimbal, who showed us what he could be in the WVU game. That Kimbal, a year older, combined with the other 3 could maybe take us to the promissed Land. The window is closing, for this particular combination of players. Next year when Kimbal should arguably have his best year, will be a rebuilding year.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-16-17 10:04 AM - Post#240308
In response to bison63
How do you do the thing where you put prior stuff in the box?
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res
Masters Student
Posts: 839
Reg: 03-21-06
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12-16-17 10:08 AM - Post#240309
In response to Old Bison
You hit the "quote" icon, which is between the red circle (report post) and the reply icon.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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12-16-17 10:31 AM - Post#240311
In response to Old Bison
63 - all valid points...got to get healthy and work it out. All coaches I talked to about the Bison had the same comment - “guys hurt now better than February and better to struggle early than lateâ€.
JK - I wouldn’t have considered 7 out of the question but 8 given the level of the opposition and the fact that 9 games were on the road does validate your a glass 🥃 half full guy! Good way to go thru life btw! I had Monmouth as a high probability win which would have put us at .500. Losing the opener and two starters has put us slightly behind the 8 ball. Win tomorrow and all of a sudden we’re wearing a new pair of glasses 🤞
I would not have been as optimistic had I known Kimbal and Avi would be out. I expect Kimbal will be back midway through PL play and we will be fine against that level of competition.
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-16-17 12:46 PM - Post#240315
In response to bison63
OB, this team came into the season with some people thinking it could maybe advance to the Sweet 16. The past Bison teams that won games in the Dance won or were competitive in games that this team is losing. The WVU game last year was what prompted the idea these guys could go somewhere special. I said on multiple occasions on this board that Kimbal was the key, just as he was vs WVU. But, due to injury Kimbal has not been a factor this year. Without him, best case scenario is we are a good PL team. Of course the loss of Zach, Nana or Stephen would be crippling as well, but my going in hopes were based on the assumption that Zach would be Zach, Nana would be Nana, and Stephen would be Stephen. The X factor was Kimbal, who showed us what he could be in the WVU game. That Kimbal, a year older, combined with the other 3 could maybe take us to the promissed Land. The window is closing, for this particular combination of players. Next year when Kimbal should arguably have his best year, will be a rebuilding year.
Wow! 63 - there’s a lot there that generates discussion points. I think our performance vs WVU was blown up out of proportion. I told a member of staff that if NJ doesn’t hit a meaningless 3 in the quarter and KM goes 3-8 from 3 we lose by 15 and the headline is “WVU tames Bisonâ€. I think he thought I was crazy. You just can’t take one game’s result and outsize it. It is why every year you can play “6 degrees of Kevin Bacon†and ultimately come up with someone terrible beating Duke by doing the pyramid link. Kimball, SB and Nana all had career games as well. An antithetical position if you wanted to be cynical is we were one missed KM 3 from the corner from being bounced by Navy in the semis on our home floor. Any projection about S16 is a fan’s prerogative and it’s great that anyone had such a positive viewpoint. The reality is that every staff in conjunction with their captains (in my experience) sets and agrees team goals that are both achievable and stretch. They are also normally tiered and I imagine the Bison’ look a little like this:
1. Win PL RS title
2. Win PL tourney title
3. Advance in NCAA tournament
4. Sweet 16 - (stretch)
I would add that it’s difficult to label anyone “keyâ€. It’s a team game and unless you have Jabber nobody’s key. That said, when you’re talking about injury all teams are fragile and losing one strong component can in fact be labeled a “key†loss. I just don’t think however you can label one components “gradient†of performance as being a key. To be successful at the levels we’re talking you need 5 guys operating at optimal efficiency.
I understand your more holistic point that that beating Syracuse and Pittsburgh (Big East) during the regular season were showcase wins that anchored the reality that those wins indicated the potential for high level post season success and This team doesn’t have such a comparison CV and that worse yet this year’s version has a CV with some losses that have indicated weaknesses. As I posted previously, I think it’s a valid point in the context your raising. I would add that it’s tough to quantify the loss of Avi and KM. Avi also seemed to be indicating he had more confidence shooting the ball prior to going down. His form and the quality of his “misses†last year left a ? mark that has now been short circuited.
The most important issue you have raised is the last one and I have alluded to it as well earlier in a thread about Chicago (?) State and in other posts in subtle ways. I fully agree that next year is more “rebuild†than “reload†and agree wholeheartedly that the window is closing. That said, I think it’s all the more reason we enjoy today, work to improve, GET HEALTHY, and get results 1 by 1. First goal, get home court advantage for the PL tournament.
Lastly, when you reference us cratering at UoM you miss the fact that there are success indicators in the fact that we were up 15 on a quality Big 10 team by 15. What is missing in that analysis is same thing missing in our analysis about the defense. The other guys are trying to win and Maryland came out and wrung the towel in the second half. I just visited Jay W and they have game goals as well. The coaching staff tracks deflections! They track “the pass that led to the passâ€! They award a hustle player of the game EVERY game.
Your concern and points are valid but that’s what our goals and guys are working towards. We have to bring that intensity every game and we have been inconsistent on the road but also showed some character on the road (UNC - UoM although a bitter one to swallow)
Let’s enjoy and support. I’m very interested in tonite
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-16-17 01:04 PM - Post#240317
In response to Old Bison
I’ll get back to you in a month or so, after I finish reading what you said. Hell I thought I was long winded, but you are the champ! LOL!
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Old Bison
Masters Student
Posts: 619
Age: 65
Reg: 07-09-17
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12-16-17 01:46 PM - Post#240320
In response to bison63
There’s great news for everyone. My things to do list is increasing again and Board meetings are looming. This is a temporarily insane period for me as things have quieted for Cmas. It’s also snowing and kids games are cancelled. Good period for me bad period for you guys. I’ll go on hiatus again...I promise...you’re gonna miss me 63!🤮🤢
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Paulie777
PhD Student
Posts: 1767
Reg: 11-11-07
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12-16-17 02:42 PM - Post#240322
In response to Old Bison
We're gonna get whooped tonight. We will win the league but get beat by Army in the Patriot league tournament. Our bench is not deep. There is no Santa Claus.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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12-16-17 03:06 PM - Post#240324
In response to Paulie777
We're gonna get whooped tonight. We will win the league but get beat by Army in the Patriot league tournament. Our bench is not deep. There is no Santa Claus.
Our bench could beat 6 or 7 of the PL teams, including Army. We'll be just fine tonight and the rest of the season. VCU has lost to good teams and beaten bad teams. ODU is their only decent win. We can win the next 3 and sweep the PL. 18-0 baby!
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-16-17 04:18 PM - Post#240338
In response to Paulie777
We're gonna get whooped tonight. We will win the league but get beat by Army in the Patriot league tournament. Our bench is not deep. There is no Santa Claus.
When Toomer and Mackenzie return, BU will have the PL's deepest bench by a very wide margin.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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12-16-17 08:06 PM - Post#240360
In response to Paulie777
There is no Santa Claus.
That might be the funniest thing that you have ever posted!
New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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12-17-17 03:49 AM - Post#240381
In response to bison63
OB, with reference to your comments about 5 or 6 wins being about what we should have expected, I could not agree more. In fact I said 6.
Fwiw, the Bucknell strength of schedule (based on Pomeroy) is now 3rd in the nation - behind only Texas Southern and Prairie View. Neither of those teams has played a home game yet, and the first home game is not yet close for either.
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