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Username Post: Monmouth        (Topic#20823)
Eric Von Zipper 
Freshman
Posts: 91

Age: 65
Reg: 11-11-17
12-11-17 08:56 PM - Post#240003    

Opens Princeton -2

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1270

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-11-17 10:30 PM - Post#240009    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

Princeton gets a different Monmouth (+ Micah Seabourn) then Penn played. He's by far their leading scorer and near top in RB's, Assists, Steals. Only real shooter (48% on threes). He shoots 85% on free throws - Monmouth missed 27 free throws (24-51) against Penn.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1983

Reg: 02-15-15
12-12-17 12:09 AM - Post#240012    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Hopefully they get different refs too. 79 fouls and 101 free throws was no fun to watch.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1270

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-12-17 12:16 AM - Post#240013    
    In response to PennFan10

True. But the arena/ESPN took us out of our misery in the 3rd OT!

Hey, by the way, glad to see Penn's resurgence. Has the makings for a very competitive - at least until Mason returns.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 851

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
Monmouth
12-12-17 09:01 AM - Post#240025    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I agree that the Tigers will be facing a far different team with Seaborn on the floor than Penn. He is clearly their best player and in all likelihood, Stephens will be guarding him. Monmouth has graduated several very good players including PG Robinson who hurt the Tigers last year. Henderson described the game as a turnaround game for the Tigers last year and the Tigers need to step up this year as well. Cannady had a big game last year with 26 pts.

Penn game was brutal basketball but Monmouth will keep coming after you similar to Lehigh. Tiges need to play at 100% effort level on defense.

Monmouth plays Yale next on the road so it will be interesting to do a compare and contrast with tonight's game although each game has a life of its own.

Edited by bradley on 12-12-17 09:04 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 283

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
Re: Monmouth
12-12-17 09:35 AM - Post#240026    
    In response to bradley

Very important game for Tigers, about as crucial as an OOC can be. From nearly invincible at Jadwin (1 loss in 2 years) the Tigers have slipped to a 1-3 start, including the Lehigh humiliation. We have seen some brief periods of success since the first half against the Mountainhawks, but no sustained efforts. With the Penn trip looming this team needs to turn the season around. If Stephens continues to look for shots at the rim he better produce more than 13 points.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 888
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
12-12-17 07:51 PM - Post#240075    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Seems to me all this reliance on shooting 3s and long outside 2pt jump shots is risky. We are benefitting from seriously poor Monmouth shooting.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1519
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 68
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
12-12-17 08:17 PM - Post#240077    
    In response to sparman

Morales on crutches. Gladson not dressed?

 
Eric Von Zipper 
Freshman
Posts: 91

Age: 65
Reg: 11-11-17
12-12-17 08:30 PM - Post#240078    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

So far,so good.

Up 11 12 mins to play

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 888
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Monmouth
12-12-17 08:55 PM - Post#240080    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

Heartburn, but Cannady closes it out spectacularly. All's well that ends well.

 
Eric Von Zipper 
Freshman
Posts: 91

Age: 65
Reg: 11-11-17
12-12-17 09:09 PM - Post#240082    
    In response to sparman

Nice to see them hold a team under 60 points finally.

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 2608

Reg: 02-05-10
12-12-17 09:42 PM - Post#240085    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

Good win against a solid Monmouth team that's better than their record (super tough schedule with close and/or respectable losses). They showed some mettle when things got scary near the end.

Forcing 20 TOs is very encouraging and Much gave us just enough in the front court. Let's hope this is a turning point. We could really use a healthy Gladson though.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3588

Reg: 02-04-06
12-12-17 10:38 PM - Post#240089    
    In response to gokinsmen

Very happy to see the more-harassing defense by the Tigers after the early passivity. For the rest of the game after Monmouth's early run, they could barely get off a trey, and Princeton had them off balance on a host of possessions, leading to steals, bad passes, and dribbles into traffic. The only flaw was Monmouth's late run where the defensive rebounding broke down for several possessions.

Much is now officially a player. Not as strong as he needs to be against the bruisers, but he was very reliable handling the ball and making good passing decisions, as well hitting some timely shots. I thought Schweger brought a ton tonight, especially in moving without the ball and cutting to the basket, but also chipping in to help get rebounds. Aririguzoh also impressed me, and i liked his passing connection to Schweger. Good minutes from Brennan, who is too tentative at times but did a lot more good things than bad tonight. It seems to me that the Other Guys are more prone to move the basketball and pass quickly than the Big Three.

But that was a fine performance by Bell, Cannady and Stephens. In the first half Stephens turned down some open three-point attempts and it never worked out. Second half, he let it rip and knocked down a number of non-lucky shots to go with this couple of answered prayers. His defense was terrific as well. Bell passed up some open threes early as well, but then got his rhythm going and had a terrific overall game. And Cannady was his usual potent self, along with a couple of nice steals to improve his Curry impression.

Really the best overall two-way game by the whole lineup against a decent Monmouth team that can do some things. Now they need to not be satisfied and to keep working on their quick ball movement, aggressive perimeter D, and defensive rebounding. Sure hope Morales and Gladson get well soon.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 851

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
12-12-17 10:40 PM - Post#240090    
    In response to gokinsmen

Agree. Tigers played better although Monmouth is a very different team than last year. The big three stepped up, especially Stephens, as they held Seaborn t0 2-10 shooting as his shots were contested. Much is stepping up and may evolve into a reliable #4.

I liked the offense in the first half after the brutal 3-16 start. Tiger players took open shots when they had them. Second half, the offense started to slow down which is a problem.

Cannady said that they did not want another Lehigh 1st half game and they dug down defensively after 3-16 start. Love his offensive game but he is still a spotty defender. Arirguzoh and Brennan were ok.

Still, very much a work-in-progress to put it mildly. Let's see how Yale does against Monmouth at home in 10 days. Question -- Is Monmouth a middle of the pack IL team or slightly better or worse????

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1519
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 68
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
12-13-17 07:07 AM - Post#240101    
    In response to bradley

Clearly a win for the team defense.

And if Cannady had missed either or both of those late 3's, it could have gone the other way.

Only 12 TO's--Schwieger 3, Brennan 2.

21 rebounds--Bell 5 and Much 4 (Much 26 minutes). Brennan and AririG 1 rebound total in 27 minutes.

14 assists--Much 5 and Bell 4.

Very productive game for Much. Good to see Bell shooting better.



 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 283

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
12-13-17 11:10 AM - Post#240120    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

This game shows the kids they ought to be able to contend very well in the Ivies. Monmouth defeated Lehigh, a team the Tigers certainly could have beaten but for a botched 5 point swing at the end of the first half, and narrowly lost to Penn w/o Micah Seaborn. Penn is currently atop the kenpom Ivy ratings. We'll know even more after the Hawks play Yale next week. I believed from the outset of the season that (a) The Big Three ought to get 45 ppg., (b) the freshmen would ALL need to step up, which appears to be happening, and (3) this team would need many games to figure out how to defend. Last night was a clear demonstration of their getting it on D. Schwiegel had 4 steals in 23 minutes, a stat which Henderson suggested points to "awareness." Now they can head out of town with a "results be damned" attitude. Work and learn, kids....

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5316

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
12-13-17 11:47 AM - Post#240127    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

As I mentioned in the league-wide thread, the concerning thing is how reliant Princeton is on extra possessions to win games against good teams.

This year's team is not nearly as consistently good at driving that turnover split, so when I see Princeton win a game forcing turnovers on 31% of possessions (esp when 19% were non-steal TOs) while only posting a 19% rate itself, I sort of shrug.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 851

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
12-13-17 12:15 PM - Post#240134    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Turnovers were certainly a factor in this game but what really made the difference was how the Tigers contested shots. Additionally, although Monmouth plays hard and tough on defense, the Tigers got off s higher percentage of uncontested shots including 3 pointers via ball movement. Stephens discussed the importance of picking up the intensity level on defense and it showed last night although Monmouth is not an overly talented team.

Although some degree of "luck" comes into play regarding shooting percentage, more so on 3s', contested shots are critical in determining the outcome. You can do nothing regarding opposition's FT % but you can do a lot as to how you play defense. Same holds true on offense by getting good looks through ball movement. Last year's team had an incredible run by accomplishing a higher % on both ends. Easy to say -- tough to do.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3588

Reg: 02-04-06
12-13-17 12:27 PM - Post#240135    
    In response to bradley

If you saw the game, the non-steal turnovers by Monmouth were not mostly brain cramps on their part. They were forced to start their offense farther out, their big guys were fronted a lot, and the Tigers drew a number of charges and off-ball push calls against the Hawks. So I actually feel good about that part of the turnover split.

The other thing Mike should be excited about is that PU got off almost double the number of trey attempts as Monmouth. Could have been even more, but they failed to pull the trigger another five or so times when they ought to have. Meanwhile, after Monmouth launching at will from behind the arc early in the game, Princeton's adjustment on D to come out farther from the basket worked to drastically decrease the Monmouth trey attempt rate. The only disturbing thing was getting pushed around on rebounds at times and giving up more FTs than one would want.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 851

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
12-13-17 01:06 PM - Post#240136    
    In response to SRP

It was good that the Tigers got off many 3 pointes. Some of it was due to better ball movement and some of it was a function of just pulling the trigger and shooting the basketball when open. Stephens has been hesitant to pull the trigger with wide open 3pt shots in prior games. The other part of the equation is that the Tigers have enough 3 pt shooters other than Cannady but they have almost deferred to the big 3. It certainly helps to have wide open 3s vs contested 3s' as Savage commented that Cannady hitting a wide open 3 is like a lay up.

How hard and how well you play defense will correlate to a lower shooting % over time -- control what you can control. Unfortunately, opposing teams continue to shoot FTs at 80% which is pretty wild but hopefully, the BB Gods will even it out by the end of the season.

Tigers, especially freshman and Brennan, are loose with the ball in their hands.

 
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