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Username Post: Tops in the league on Pomeroy!        (Topic#20833)
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-13-17 06:44 AM - Post#240099    

We are one slot ahead of Yale!
When was the last time that happened?

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4578

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Tops in the league on Pomeroy!
12-13-17 07:39 AM - Post#240100    
    In response to mbaprof

2007.

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-13-17 08:37 AM - Post#240102    
    In response to SomeGuy

Its been a long ten years, "enjoy it while we may" and hopefully we end up the season that way

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 13784

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
12-13-17 09:30 AM - Post#240108    
    In response to mbaprof

A Shehechianu may be in order.

 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1011

Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
Re: Tops in the league on Pomeroy!
12-13-17 10:56 AM - Post#240111    
    In response to mbaprof

  • mbaprof Said:
We are one slot ahead of Yale!
When was the last time that happened?



Now let's see if we can prove that on the court as well.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Tops in the league on Pomeroy!
12-13-17 11:00 AM - Post#240112    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Of course that is the only thing that matters. That logic applies as well to those who whine about losing recruiting battles. Only the results matter.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1702

Reg: 02-15-15
12-13-17 11:01 AM - Post#240113    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Well, let's not get too carried away. Being #1 because other teams lost and are now ranked lower is a lot different than having 3-4 top 100 teams and Penn is the highest rated. I'd prefer the latter as it's better for our league.

That said, we have been the most consistent and have the best win so far. I'd be happy with a IL tourney seed of 3 or higher for this team.

 
SteveChop 
Masters Student
Posts: 676

Reg: 07-28-07
12-13-17 11:46 AM - Post#240115    
    In response to 10Q

I said one last night!

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
12-13-17 12:01 PM - Post#240118    
    In response to SteveChop

So did I. So I guess this Pomeroy ranking is a Chanukah present of sorts. It will go nicely with the slipper socks my daughter gave me last night.

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 808

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
12-13-17 12:23 PM - Post#240121    
    In response to Silver Maple

I'll know this program has bottomed out when we hang a "Top Ivy in Pomeroy" banner in the Palestra.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 13784

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
12-13-17 12:32 PM - Post#240123    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Tops in Pomeroy - Clap Clap Clap Clap Clap

[repeat]

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-13-17 12:36 PM - Post#240126    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Top Ivy In KenPom....For a Day.

That would be a better banner.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11106

Reg: 12-02-04
12-13-17 12:51 PM - Post#240128    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

  • T.P.F.K.A.D.W. Said:
I'll know this program has bottomed out when we hang a "Top Ivy in Pomeroy" banner in the Palestra.



or, the Chanukah Miracle.

We didn't think Penn was going to have enough juice to stay #1 Ivy in KenPom for more than one night.

But thanks to a mysterious bug in the algorithm and fortuitous scheduling, Penn was able to hang on for 8 whole nights.


 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 13784

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
12-13-17 01:14 PM - Post#240133    
    In response to penn nation

Pass the donuts.

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-13-17 05:54 PM - Post#240148    
    In response to 10Q

ill buy at Federal on Sansome on campus if anyone wants to meet me this week, chicken too

 
13otto 
Masters Student
Posts: 500
13otto
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
12-13-17 07:21 PM - Post#240152    
    In response to mbaprof

  • mbaprof Said:
ill buy at Federal on Sansome on campus if anyone wants to meet me this week, chicken too


One of my (and my wife's) favorite places to grab a quick bite before a game.
http://www.letsgoquakers.com/


 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 808

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
12-14-17 11:15 AM - Post#240180    
    In response to 13otto

As of today, Penn is scheduled to have played both Pomeroy #1 (Villanova) and Pomeroy #351 (Delaware State) in the same season.

How often does that happen?

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-14-17 11:20 AM - Post#240181    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

I have a feeling that game at the Palestra might show a lot of rust, then again it could be cheesesteak time
Good game to come back to after a long break and two big games at home afterwards, Toledo and Princeton

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11106

Reg: 12-02-04
12-14-17 01:58 PM - Post#240194    
    In response to mbaprof

Fascinating that all of the current winless DI teams reside in just two conferences: the SWAC (4 teams!) and the MEAC (2 teams).

Delaware State is part of the MEAC as well. It has 2 wins to its credit, although they are against non DI opponents.

So it's gonna be a real battle royale to see who ends up with the worst KenPom rating by year's end.

Delaware State, of course, could avoid all of this by giving Penn a game...nah, never mind.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-14-17 02:22 PM - Post#240199    
    In response to penn nation

We lost to them at the Palestra in the season opener in Jerome's last season.

Nothing is certain except getting killed by Nova

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11106

Reg: 12-02-04
12-14-17 02:23 PM - Post#240200    
    In response to palestra38

If I get my Finals grading done in time, I'm hoping to head down there with the boychicks, who have never been to the Palestra.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
12-14-17 02:26 PM - Post#240201    
    In response to penn nation

Never been to the Palestra? What kind of parent are you? I don't even know what to say to that. Clearly that's some form of child abuse.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11106

Reg: 12-02-04
12-14-17 02:32 PM - Post#240202    
    In response to Silver Maple

Well, I got enough grief from my NY relatives over the years asking how in the blazes I could subject my kids to such fervent Cub intensity in hostile territory. Untold damage, it was alleged, was being committed.

I am grinning ear to ear as I type this.





 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 13784

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
12-14-17 03:57 PM - Post#240212    
    In response to penn nation

Are you planning on coming for the 12/27 game? I'd love to meet you at the game.

 
Cvonvorys 
PhD Student
Posts: 1902

Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
12-14-17 04:02 PM - Post#240214    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
If I get my Finals grading done in time, I'm hoping to head down there with the boychicks, who have never been to the Palestra.



If you have time, you should think about staying around after the game is over. Often times they let kids shoot hoops on the court. Also, the players come out to meet with family and friends. I have pictures after last year's Harvard game of my 11-year-old son along with both Matt Howard & Ryan Betley... Very cool.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 13784

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
12-14-17 04:20 PM - Post#240218    
    In response to Cvonvorys

That sounds great! Maybe I'll bring my boys! We can have an OTB Reunion!

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 704

Reg: 11-29-04
12-14-17 06:00 PM - Post#240239    
    In response to Silver Maple

  • Silver Maple Said:
Never been to the Palestra? What kind of parent are you? I don't even know what to say to that. Clearly that's some form of child abuse.



If his kids are any younger than 10 years old, he saved his kids a lot of grief and preserved the Penn brand for a better day. We're at least now a team that a self respecting person can admire. They represent well, play hard, play with purpose, and play together.

If your kids plays basketball, remind them to learn to hit free throws as they watch the game.

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-15-17 05:49 PM - Post#240288    
    In response to Penndemonium

up to 129!


 
Yo-Yo 
Freshman
Posts: 13

Reg: 01-30-05
12-16-17 01:18 PM - Post#240318    
    In response to mbaprof

Quakers make their first appearance in forever in Bracketology as the 16 seed in the South Region - playing Duke in the first round....

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketba ll/bracke...

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-16-17 03:16 PM - Post#240325    
    In response to Yo-Yo

we need another crack at those guys, we let them escape in 1978 when they had FOUR future good NBA players on the team and we had a good lead,check this out
https://www.google.com/search?q=penn+duke+19 78&...


 
SteveChop 
Masters Student
Posts: 676

Reg: 07-28-07
12-16-17 03:58 PM - Post#240333    
    In response to mbaprof

I was there and thought we were going to get a crack at 'Nova in the Eastern Final and avenge the 1971 massacre. But, alas, it was just not to be.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18026

Reg: 11-21-04
12-16-17 04:13 PM - Post#240336    
    In response to SteveChop

Still to this day remember the Nova fans rooting for Duke

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1702

Reg: 02-15-15
12-23-17 10:15 AM - Post#241120    
    In response to palestra38

Yale’s loss at home to Monmouth (by 20) is interesting given Monmouth played without their best player (same as V Penn). And Harvard’s use of starters vs BU included 3 players who had yet to play this season and none of the 4* Soph class. Princeton looked good vs USC (sans 4 regulars) and then not as good in a tough loss to Middle Tenn. Seems like a fair amount of uncertainty as we get close to conference games.

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-23-17 03:17 PM - Post#241148    
    In response to Yo-Yo

dont look now but they currently have Princeton getting in via the tournament and being a 16 in the West


 
SteveChop 
Masters Student
Posts: 676

Reg: 07-28-07
12-23-17 03:23 PM - Post#241150    
    In response to mbaprof

That would be horrible for the Ivy League given the publicity that its teams are much better and it's now a true mid-level conference.

 
mbaprof 61
Sophomore
Posts: 122

Age: 61
Reg: 12-24-11
12-23-17 04:22 PM - Post#241158    
    In response to SteveChop

Princeton (#125) is now 12 slots ahead of us on Pomeroy.
Cant wait for Jan 5 at Palestra!


 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 173

Age: 37
Reg: 01-08-11
12-23-17 04:38 PM - Post#241159    
    In response to mbaprof

Can't wait for March 10 at the Palestra! Wish we could just jump to that right now. Most important thing between now and then is to avoid any serious injuries.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2390
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
12-23-17 05:15 PM - Post#241160    
    In response to PennFan10

Princeton seems to be looking better but Yale looking worse based on injury - they didn't have Copeland for the Monmouth game so being down 3 top players is tough.

Harvard is just a bit confusing. They have some injuries as Aiken missed those last two games but Amaker is also using ridiculous lineups from a casual observers point of view.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3842

Reg: 11-21-04
12-23-17 05:17 PM - Post#241161    
    In response to PennFan10

Princeton looked pretty good against MTSU and most of the comments on the Princeton board are accurate. Cannady is the best pg in the league by a wide margin. MTSU probably has a slightly different take on the game as they missed bunny after bunny. Still Princeton is very good and plays hard and as a team. They are the team to beat at this point in the season. It's good that Penn gets this test so early in the year.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4578

Reg: 11-22-04
12-23-17 11:19 PM - Post#241233    
    In response to AsiaSunset

Isn't Bell the point guard for Princeton this year? That's not to say Cannady isn't very good -- just that he basically plays shooting guard.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3842

Reg: 11-21-04
12-24-17 08:52 AM - Post#241241    
    In response to SomeGuy

That's possible although the couple times I've seen them it's Cannady who seems to be the floor leader. Sometimes with these motion offenses and switching man to man defenses the guards basically are interchangeable.

Still - while they have three players who excel at attacking the basket I think Cannady is the guy they want handling the ball at the end of the half or the game.

Even on our team it's often hard to say who the point guard is. I think Darnell brings the ball up more than Antonio, but once that ball starts moving, discerning who the point guard is and who the shooting guard is is kind of a useless exercise. What's clear is that our end of shot clock options are less attractive than theirs because Cannady can beat his man off the dribble, hit the jumpshot from distance and get to the line where he makes a very high % of his FTs.

 
mrjames 
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
12-24-17 10:45 AM - Post#241244    
    In response to AsiaSunset

Completely disagree.

Aiken is the best point guard in the league. He's second in the league in assist rate, he's using over 30% of Harvard's possessions and he's got a 100 offensive rating while shooting just 21% from three, which will improve and bring his efficiency along with it. He's elite in PnR action according to the synergy stats, he's won 3 game MVPs in 9 D1 games he's played this year, and Harvard has looked LOST offensively without him.

Everyone on these boards seems to discount Bryce for some reason - maybe because of his incoming rating and the expectations placed up on him? But the coaches would be pretty overwhelmingly in favor of Bryce as the best PG (which is what many considered to be a surprising choice as 1st team All-Ivy last year).

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-24-17 11:52 AM - Post#241248    
    In response to mrjames

Cannaday averages 1.2 assts/game in 36.8 min/game. More TO's than assists. Very talented, but not a PG.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 3842

Reg: 11-21-04
12-24-17 12:15 PM - Post#241250    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I agree to a certain extent but the Princeton offense relies on rapid ball movement, back cuts and a lot of inside outside ball movement. The assist leader on a good Princeton team is more likely to be a player like Spencer Weisz. Yet Cannady is the guy who pilots that team especially down the stretch and he's a big reason they look like the team to beat right now. Plus - Cannady hustles on defense.

As for Aiken, perhaps I downgrade him a bit because he sort of reminds me of Tony Hicks e.g. a very talented player who seems like an indifferent defender and does really make those around him better. And - if we are going to live and die by the stats - he's performing at a very mediocre level on a talented Harvard squad that looks a bit dysfunctional 12 games into the season. He's not nearly the player Chambers was at this point in his career understanding that he has a long way to go to show he did indeed deserve 1st team All Ivy accolades last year. The challenge Harvard faces is that the back up options are not great so they can't afford this year's version of Bryce Aiken when he returns to the lineup if they hope to live up to their preseason billing.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5233

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
12-24-17 01:21 PM - Post#241252    
    In response to AsiaSunset

  • Quote:
As for Aiken, perhaps I downgrade him a bit because he sort of reminds me of Tony Hicks e.g. a very talented player who seems like an indifferent defender and does really make those around him better.



Tony Hicks was indeed high usage and had a style like Bryce, but that's really where the similarities stop. Tony at Penn was VERY consistently around 30% usage, but was also very consistently in the low 90s ORAT. Bryce has been at similar usage, but in the low-to-mid 100s (and unless you assume Aiken truly is a 21% 3-point shooter, would be more like mid-to-upper 100s). Even with those struggles, Bryce is currently the 90th most efficient player in the country to use 28% or more of team possessions.

I assume you meant "doesn't really make those around him better," but through the Kentucky game (haven't loaded Fordham in and he didn't play in the last two anyway), Harvard was 103/101 with him on the floor and 70/97 with him off it.

  • Quote:
And - if we are going to live and die by the stats - he's performing at a very mediocre level on a talented Harvard squad that looks a bit dysfunctional 12 games into the season.



Again, 90th most efficient player in the country using 28% of team possessions and that's with a 3PT% that will rise and bring his efficiency further up that list. Last year, he was the 64th most efficient player in the country to use 28% of team possessions. I view it as "carrying" a talented Harvard squad, but I guess 90th most efficient high-usage player in the country is mediocre now?

  • Quote:
He's not nearly the player Chambers was at this point in his career understanding that he has a long way to go to show he did indeed deserve 1st team All Ivy accolades last year.



He is way, way, way better than Chambers. How is this even a question? Chambers had the luxury of picking his spots and carried a roughly average usage rate throughout his career, while always deferring to a primary option (Saunders his first three years and Aiken last year). Chambers' best year from a TO Rate perspective was equal to Aiken's average. People seem to forget that his junior year was pretty average, he wasn't a great shooter as a junior or senior and had very little ability to finish at the rim. Chambers happened to play better in league play than in the non-conf throughout his career, which may cause other teams' fans to remember him in a bit rosier light than his overall performance would dictate, but you'd be hard-pressed to find someone that would take Chambers over Aiken.

  • Quote:
The challenge Harvard faces is that the back up options are not great so they can't afford this year's version of Bryce Aiken when he returns to the lineup if they hope to live up to their preseason billing.



Very true that Harvard's backup PG options are all below replacement-level. But Harvard would be just fine with a 100 ORAT, 30% usage player in its lineup. It's the rest of the rotation that has been, with the exception of Chris Lewis, sub-par that has hurt Harvard more than anything.

Oh yeah, and when Harvard starts hitting threes, including Bryce himself, boosting his Assist Rate and eFG, he's going to have himself another All-Ivy First Team nod.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4578

Reg: 11-22-04
12-27-17 11:27 AM - Post#241364    
    In response to AsiaSunset

Cannady pilots the team at the end of games because he is a tremendous free throw shooter and a good ball handler. At least to my eye, he does not pilot the team the rest of the game. The Princeton board certainly seems to view Bell as the PG. While Cannady has a different skill set from Betley, I'd kind of like to see Penn do something similar at the end of games. Let him become the PG during the last 2 minutes, and make them foul our best shooter.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4578

Reg: 11-22-04
12-27-17 11:37 AM - Post#241367    
    In response to mrjames

I assume Harvard (and Aiken) will be there at the end. But both will need better results. He'll rightly get the benefit of the doubt if Harvard is 10-4 and in the playoff. If Harvard plays the way they have OOC (including the 3s not going in), they could actually miss the playoff. And then Aiken is just another high usage, high volume, reasonably efficient guy like Mike Smith.

The other interesting question here is who is really a point guard. Is Matt Morgan a point guard with Bathurst and McBride out? Morgan is playing at an unbelievable level in terms of both usage and efficiency.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2254

Reg: 11-23-04
12-27-17 03:27 PM - Post#241381    
    In response to SomeGuy

I'm hopeful but doubt that Harvard will not eventually find its groove. But, even if it doesn't, it is hard to imagine them not making the Tournament. Assuming the P's and y make it, what other team could displace them?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1091

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-27-17 03:55 PM - Post#241382    
    In response to Tiger69

If Columbia gets Castlin back, they could contend. Despite being 1-10, only losses by >10 were at Villanova, BC and Penn State, and no loss has been by >15. Almost beat UConn. Best FT shooting team with size and top notch PG. Record would be better if Castlin and Meisner has been more available.

Brown’s offense is also impressive and Cornell has pieces. Looks like Cambridge or Morgan can score 30+. No team is so good that they aren’t vulnerable.

Could be wild

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4578

Reg: 11-22-04
12-28-17 12:39 AM - Post#241424    
    In response to Tiger69

As of Dec 10 when mrjames posted numbers, Harvard was only 205 nationally in efficiency for this season (their higher kenpom rank depended on the pre-baked stuff from last year). There's been some good and bad since then, but I doubt they've changed a whole heck of a lot, and Brown and Cornell have probably helped themselves. So while Harvard probably will be fine, if they play the way they have thus far, they really might not be.

 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1011

Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
12-28-17 11:02 AM - Post#241434    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Dartmouth looked far better than I thought they would against Notre Dame (though this year's edition is probably not one of ND's stronger teams). They might well be able to spring a Saturday night ambush or two on league foes.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1702

Reg: 02-15-15
12-28-17 11:49 AM - Post#241439    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

As good as Dartmouth looked against ND, they were horrific 3 nights earlier in a bad loss to University of Illinois at Chicago, an average Horizon league team.

I think the idea we would have 3 top 100 teams was a bit ambitious, we will be lucky to have 1 top 100 team at any point this season.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 69
Reg: 12-04-15
12-28-17 11:51 AM - Post#241442    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Hard to read the OOC tea leaves this season. Biggest story is Yale's loss of Bruner and Mason. Second is probably Penn's return to respectability and probable contention for the Ivy title, especially playing at home. Third is Columbia's woeful start, although no one will be shocked if they turn things around in Ivy play. Fourth is Dartmouth's hanging in there without Boudreaux. They went toe-to-toe with ND. They should improve as they go. Fifth must be the enigmatic start to Harvard's season. Amaker has certainly used some quirky, let's go with that, lineups. Not sure what it means for the long haul but we have not seen what we all expected to see in Cambridge. For sixth I suggest that Brian Earl has Cornell very much on the right track. Morgan is a probable first teamer and he has plenty of help up and down the bench. Mike Morgan's Brown team is the seventh best story so far. They won't stop anybody, as usual, but they will score and score and score....The Tigers' OOC is the eighth biggest story this year, only because it has unfolded pretty much as Henderson designed it. Tough games, mostly on the road. Freshmen worked into the lineup. Rocky start at 2-6 including a 49 point half by Lehigh at Jadwin, but a 5-1 finish. Seem familiar? I expect the wildest scramble this year, wilder than last season's final weekend when three, or was it four?, teams remained alive for the last tourney berth. I will not be surprised if two or three slots are open in the last week this year.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3596

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
01-07-18 02:27 PM - Post#242596    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Princeton now tops in KP rating.

I'll take the win.


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3186

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-07-18 09:37 PM - Post#242624    
    In response to TheLine

It'll take a lot to pass Princeton in the KP and Sagarin. That has a lot to do with the fact that our non-conference schedule came with a little paper wrapper, pink frosting and sprinkles.

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 735

Reg: 10-20-14
01-08-18 05:30 PM - Post#242738    
    In response to Silver Maple

Good news, bad news from the folks at NBC College Basketball Talk.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/01/08/...

They have Penn listed as the Ivy rep for the first time all season. However, they have the Quakers playing a play-in game against Texas Southern (SWAC) for a #16 seed.

At least the First Four game is in Dayton where Penn is 1-0 this year!

 
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