Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



Username Post: Columbia vs Maine on December 30        (Topic#20842)
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1548

Reg: 02-14-06
12-16-17 01:21 AM - Post#240300    

Only one more DI opponent for the Lions before they start the Ivy League Season, namely Maine on December 30. In effect, that game will be the Lions' last opportunity to try a starting line-up of Smith, Meissner, Faulds, Hanson and Bibbs, or perhaps a starting line-up of Smith, Adlesh, either Faulds or Tape, Hanson and Bibbs. Of course if Castlin returns healthy, I would expect Engles' starting line-up to be Smith, Castlin, Faulds or Tape, Meissner and either Adlesh or Hickman. In my opinion, whatever line-up the Lions use it must include at least one freshman. The all-vet starting line-ups have been unsuccessful thus far.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-16-17 12:57 PM - Post#240316    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Given the frequent, major substitutions Angles makes, the starting lineup is of limited import.
west coast fan


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-16-17 03:40 PM - Post#240328    
    In response to internetter

Even if Castlin is not ready I would not start Hickman. I like a lineup assuming no Hickman or Castlin of Smith, Meisner, Faulds, Hansen and Bibbs. Second unit would be Tape, Adlesh, Hickman, Stefanini, Hunter. If Castlin is ready he should start in lieu of Hansen or Bibbs. Let’s play the guys with the highest upside.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1548

Reg: 02-14-06
12-16-17 04:18 PM - Post#240337    
    In response to internetter

You are right, but that was Engles' style last year and it certainly was a difficult one to comprehend as his multiple substitution style seemed to be a major detriment to the team's performance specially in the Ivy League race. This year, however, Engles has changed his approach in regards to the rate of substitutions so that is no longer a major issue. The problem this year is the starting lineup he is using is repeatedly getting off to a great start only to see the lead collapse. In Columbia's case, the Lions are using an all veteran starting line-up with Mike Smith as the focal point. The question is what is going wrong game after game and how do you correct it. There is really nothing that unusual about the way the Lions are repeatedly losing game. I presume there are several well-known remedies in the coaching textbook. Regardless of whatever remedy Engles uses to thwart the declines, he really needs to give his best freshman players more playing time as a group so as to foster their individual skills and their cohesiveness as a group. In my opinion, the best way for that to happen is to put as many freshmen as possible on the floor with Mike Smith from the the start of the game.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Columbia vs Maine on December 30
12-16-17 06:05 PM - Post#240345    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Is it really the starting lineup that creates the problem, though? If Columbia is taking a lead early every game, isn't it the starters who are predominantly producing the lead? I'm curious what the plus/minus numbers are for the various combos.

Usually if a team consistently takes leads and loses them, they likely lack effective depth and/or they generally aren't as talented as their opponents. Less talented teams often play tougher early because they have an advantage in terms of game planning. To put it simply, Columbia game plans for Nova, but Nova does not game plan for Columbia. That means Columbia may have an initial tactical advantage, but that advantage goes away as the game goes on and the more talented team is able to adjust. To the observer, this can lead to the critique that there is a coaching failure, but in truth there may only be one approach that gets you the lead against a superior team, and once they adjust there isn't an effective counter to be made. As a Browns fan, this is how I generally saw Bellichick's Brown's teams -- looked great for a quarter or a half due to superior initial gameplan, but always lost in the second half. And lots of Browns fans thought he was a lousy coach as a result of the second half losses.

Could be what is going on with Columbia. But of course it could be a coaching failure. Just wanted to throw a competing theory out there.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-17-17 01:01 AM - Post#240375    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Thank you; I stand corrected about Engles substitutions.
west coast fan


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-17-17 08:55 AM - Post#240385    
    In response to internetter

I think part of what happens is that opposing teams try to get Meisner in foul trouble early, putting our second best player on the bench. And I hope I don’t sound like a broken record, but opposing teams don’t need to worry about Hickman when he is on the floor. What has been remarkable over the last few games is the stunning all around play of Mike Smith, who is playing at a POY level, but he is playing 38minutes a night and is going to need some help when the Ivy season starts.


 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3513

Reg: 02-04-06
12-17-17 12:55 PM - Post#240398    
    In response to Chet Forte

Haven't watched the Lions this season, but a good rule of thumb is that when fans can't understand why a player is getting PT, the answer is usually defense.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-17-17 01:33 PM - Post#240401    
    In response to Chet Forte

In an interview, Engles said he played his star at NJIT just about every minute.
west coast fan


 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1396

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Columbia vs Maine on December 30
12-17-17 04:26 PM - Post#240408    
    In response to SomeGuy

I believe that Some Guy is right.

I've re-warched the Stony Brook game (watching a game the second time around reduces some of the cognitive distortions caused by a fan's emotional investment in a team), and it was pretty clear that Stony Brook had a good deal more talent. Then instead of feeling frustrated that our coaches supposedly again failed to help get us over the finish line in a game that we might have won, one starts thinking in terms of boy, what did they do to get us to lead and then stay so close for so long?

We were outshot overall (43.9% to 37.5%) and, incredibly, at the foul line (we were 13-23 for 56.5%, they were 21-28 for 75%), although we shot better from beyond the 3 point line (40.7% to 27.8%) and we were out rebounded 42-30. A good team almost always has one or two seniors who demonstrate poise, consistency and competence. Our one senior shot 2-7, 3-6 at the line with 2 rebounds and 6 TOs.

I'm beginning to think that our running out to leads and then playing fairly close for long stretches is some combination of Smith, who can be extraordinary on O but whose size limits his effectiveness on D somewhat, and a lot of smoke and mirrors. The "smoke and mirrors" includes some very good individual games by Meisner, Adlesh and others, and I do not mean to demean their contributions. My point is simply that we all may have overestimates the amount and certainly the depth of talent with which our coaches are working.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
Re: Columbia vs Maine on December 30
12-17-17 05:08 PM - Post#240411    
    In response to Dr. V

Sad, but probably true. After all, we lost the one senior in the lineup who was probably going to be effective (Castlin), so that most of the time, we are playing one relatively ineffective senior (Hickman) along with a large # of first years. Hence, although the longer term trajectory of the program is probably quite good, the team's lack of depth and experience caps what can be reasonably be expected for this season.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-17-17 09:19 PM - Post#240424    
    In response to cc66

Meisner, just about every game, Adlesh, starting recently, often the first sub if he isn't, are both juniors, provide experience and scoring.
Tape, also a jr., has been very inconsistent.

Point: with Smith, the key players have seen lots of minutes.

Perhaps a search for a reason for the pattern of the games: too many away, too little rest in between. The Ivy schedule poses its own physical demands; but at least there's a significant period during which to recuperate and plan for future games.
west coast fan


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-17-17 09:34 PM - Post#240426    
    In response to internetter

Tape is not a junior. He is a sophomore. So there is still hope. Hunter is a junior.


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
12-17-17 10:20 PM - Post#240428    
    In response to Chet Forte

Here's the allocation of minutes through 10 games:

First years: 481 (24%)
Sophs: 543 (mostly Smith 364 & Tape 166)26%
Juniors: 662 ( 80% Meisner and Adlesh) 32%
Seniors: 339 (317 from Hickman)18%

It is a young team, with first and second years getting half of the minutes.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-18-17 03:16 AM - Post#240430    
    In response to Chet Forte

Thanks for the correction, Fulvio.
west coast fan


 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-24-17 04:27 PM - Post#241260    
    In response to internetter

Maine game is audio only, apparently.
west coast fan


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1548

Reg: 02-14-06
12-24-17 09:15 PM - Post#241269    
    In response to internetter

The Ivy League Digital Network appears to have the Lions' home game with Maine scheduled for both audio AND Video. Sarah Lawrence game also has a duel listing.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
Columbia vs Maine on December 30
12-25-17 01:20 AM - Post#241272    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

There was a tweet a few hours ago that said audio only.
Men's Basketball Maine--Columbia-- 02:00 PM EST
Men's Basketball Columbia Men's Basketball vs. Maine | Audio Only
west coast fan


Edited by internetter on 12-25-17 01:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1548

Reg: 02-14-06
12-25-17 07:07 PM - Post#241299    
    In response to internetter

The Ivy League Digital Network is still showing both audio AND video. Maine athletics is still showing both audio AND Videai. I haven't checked Columbia athletics yet, but it would be out of character for Columbia athletics not to broadcast a home basketball game and I can't find any such tweet on Columbia Basketball. Where did you see the tweet?

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-25-17 08:59 PM - Post#241304    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

This is strange because the last 2 lines of my previous post are from the ILDN site.

http://www.ivyleaguenetwork.com/columbia/schedule

C's pages are often somewhat behind times and the holiday period has few if any workinfg.

I don't recall the origination of the aforementioned tweet.
west coast fan


 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
Columbia vs Maine on December 30
12-28-17 05:28 PM - Post#241483    
    In response to internetter

An AD announcement by email just (4:30 ET) said it will be on ILDN. Guess we'll have to see what's happening at game time.
west coast fan


Edited by internetter on 12-28-17 05:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
12-28-17 10:33 PM - Post#241495    
    In response to internetter

FWIW, game notes are posted, with Meisner but no Castlin.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-30-17 02:29 PM - Post#241616    
    In response to cc66

Looks like Castlinis ready and Bibbs is out. Meisner is wearing a face guard.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-30-17 04:01 PM - Post#241625    
    In response to Chet Forte

Some rust but we are a better team with Castlin. Up 19 at the half. Smith and Adlesh look good. Hansen will be a good one. Meisner seems hampered by the face mask. Tape and Faulds are bottling up the inside on defense. Hansen is basically a small forward but has good size for that position. Hickman hasn’t done much and has seen his minutes significantly reduced. No offense from Hickman and Hunter can do the other things Hickman does but better.


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
12-30-17 05:08 PM - Post#241633    
    In response to Chet Forte

We win by 12, 83-71; we led by 20 most of the second half until the reserves were inserted. 16 for Smith and Adlesh, 12 for Tape, who displayed some offensive moves that he hasn't showed before.

Cashlin does make a difference. We are still weak inside, but we move the ball better now. 5th in the IL is a reasonable projection.

But what happened to Bibbs?

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-30-17 05:52 PM - Post#241635    
    In response to cc66

It looked like Bibbs was injured. He was there but not dressed. This game was a 30-35 point blow-out until Engles pulled Smith and Meisner with around 11minutes to go and took his foot off the gas, in my judgment excessively so. I also thought that for a good part of the second half the refs were trying to keep the score under control, causing us to play 5 on 8. As far as what this says, Castlin is really good and made some moves around the basket that only Smith is also capable of making. Smith and Adlesh played a very good game against a fairly small team. I see a problem with we play teams with tall back courts. Meisner looked like he was bothered somewhat by the facemask but still had a solid all around game. Tape may have had his best game of the year, and I also thought that Faulds showed some flashes. Hansen is very athletic and can play in the front court. Again, I thought that Hickman has played his way into a reserve role with 8 or so minutes off the bench.


 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2845

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
12-30-17 06:50 PM - Post#241637    
    In response to Chet Forte

During wrap-up, no mention of ILDN video covering SL. I seem to recall it did a couple of years ago.

Tape noted in the post-game interview that they had, used new plays. Perhaps that contributed to the 22 assists. In addition to his 16 points, Adlesh had a career high of 7 assists, some quite impressive.
west coast fan


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
12-30-17 07:28 PM - Post#241640    
    In response to internetter

Did Meisner break his nose? When he was injured three weeks ago, I thought he was pulled because his back was bothering him. Did he break his nose in practice over the last couple of weeks?



 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1396

Reg: 11-21-04
12-31-17 02:19 AM - Post#241654    
    In response to cc66

Lance Meadow said that Meisner had broken a cheek bone.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2025

Reg: 03-02-08
12-31-17 08:20 AM - Post#241656    
    In response to Dr. V

The box score is interesting. Meisner had 10 points and 9 rebounds in only 20 minutes. Perhaps his broken cheek bone was a factor in his limited minutes and in his not driving more to the basket. I’m not sure if anybody else on this board was also at the game, but you do see little things that are not apparent on TV. One big takeaway for me was the almost palpable sense that I got that when Castlin was on the court we were a better team. He seems like a much better, more polished, and complete player than what I remember. To me the best lineup right now is Smith, Meisner, Adlesh, Tape and Castlin, with Faulds in for Tape or Meisner, Bibbs in for Smith, Hansen in for Castlin, and Stefanini in for Adlesh. For defense and rebounding I like Hunter, but until he develops an offensive game his minutes will have to be limited. He is a really good athlete but has to develop some sort of offensive game. Against taller teams he will see more minutes. Based upon yesterday’s box score (1 for 9 from the field) plus not taking several open threes Hickman really is in a very deep funk/slump.


 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1396

Reg: 11-21-04
12-31-17 03:09 PM - Post#241673    
    In response to Chet Forte

I was at the game and had a similar sense re Castlin. He plays good D, he doesn't do dumb things on the court, and he's relaxed and confident on the floor. That has to have a positive effect.

I've always liked Adlesh's play. He's heady and gets the most out of his skills, but yesterday's line is ridiculous: 16 points on 6-9, with 4-6 threes, 4 boards, 7 assists with NO TOs, and a steal with no PFs.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
Columbia vs Maine on December 30
12-31-17 06:08 PM - Post#241676    
    In response to Dr. V

I think it is pretty clear that the team with a 226 rating in KenPom is not the same team we are going to put on the floor for the IL season. How much better is the unknowable issue.

Probably the most significant weakness we must remedy is our interior defense. Our guards have difficulty stopping drives, while Tape and Faulds don't yet seem very effective blocking shots in close. If either the guards or the frontline got significantly better, then we'd have a decent chance against most of the rest of the IL.



Edited by cc66 on 12-31-17 06:09 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1548

Reg: 02-14-06
12-31-17 10:50 PM - Post#241677    
    In response to cc66

Hansen seemed to have suffered an injury to his hand or arm near the end of the game. Hopefully, it was not serious.

 
Murph 
Masters Student
Posts: 612

Age: 58
Reg: 09-13-11
Re: Columbia vs Maine on December 30
01-01-18 09:09 AM - Post#241680    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
As a Browns fan, this is how I generally saw Bellichick's Brown's teams -- looked great for a quarter or a half due to superior initial gameplan, but always lost in the second half. And lots of Browns fans thought he was a lousy coach as a result of the second half losses.




I grew up in Ohio as a Cleveland Browns fan. I couldn't wait for the Browns to fire Bellichick, mostly based on the fact that he ran home town hero Bernie Kosar out of town. Then of course, Bellichick went to NE, developed Brady into the quintessential pocket passer, and became arguably the greatest coach in NFL history. Meanwhile, the Browns have devolved into arguably the worst team in NFL history. Words cannot describe how much I despise Bellichick.



It was nice to see the Lions showing signs of life against Maine. Hopefully the season isn't over yet. The RPI rankings show the Lions could still contend for the playoffs.

The return of Castlin is huge.

If I were Engles, I'd shorten the rotation going into Ivy play. I think he has the starting lineup right. Castlin should play starters minutes off the bench, with limited minutes going to Faulds, Hanson, Stefanini and Hunter.




 
Columbia Alum 
Junior
Posts: 247

Age: 32
Reg: 11-15-11
01-01-18 10:18 PM - Post#241717    
    In response to Murph

Castlin is back, time to play Hickman under 5mins/game. If we do this we'll be in the running for top 4. If Engels remains hard-headed and Hickman plays 25+/game, we are firmly bottom 4, possibly last

 
Filippo2014 
Freshman
Posts: 82

Age: 70
Reg: 04-10-14
01-02-18 04:25 PM - Post#241774    
    In response to Columbia Alum

Team is also really missing Jake Killingsworth, who was deemed a starter by Engles last year as a Freshman. His last time out early in the season, he was 3 for 3 from 3 against Longwood.

I have not heard what his injury is but it appears to be season ending.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
01-02-18 07:41 PM - Post#241792    
    In response to Filippo2014

Let's hope Hanson's injury isn't season-ending either, or our reserves are really going to be thinned out.

 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

1947 Views




Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.951 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 02:30 PM
Top