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Username Post: Penn out of the Dark Ages?        (Topic#20891)
jmverlin 
Sophomore
Posts: 139

Age: 29
Reg: 07-18-12
12-28-17 03:22 PM - Post#241472    

My column after last night's win over DSU: http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...

- Josh

 
91Quake 
Masters Student
Posts: 626

Reg: 11-22-04
12-28-17 03:58 PM - Post#241475    
    In response to jmverlin

Nice piece. Thanks for the good work.

Wondering if you have any insight on the Eddie Scott wrist injury you referenced?

 
yoyo 
Junior
Posts: 206

Reg: 03-25-09
12-28-17 03:58 PM - Post#241476    
    In response to 91Quake

Thanks Josh, yes last night was fun and I agree we are finally emerging from the darkness.

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 732

Reg: 11-29-04
12-28-17 04:54 PM - Post#241482    
    In response to yoyo


"I think everyone on the team has that swagger about us, we all love each other and we’re all good friends and we’re all invested in each other, and we’re all going to work hard and that’s pretty much how the team runs.”

I see gratuitous quotes from athletes all of the time, but I really believe Jones means it. This team really exudes this philosophy. And that is why it will be one of my favorite Penn teams - even if they don't win a championship. I felt the same way about the Paul Chambers 2nd place team. They didn't win, but they set the tone for the next decade of Penn championships. They worked their tails off.



 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1761

Reg: 02-15-15
12-28-17 07:32 PM - Post#241485    
    In response to 91Quake

  • 91Quake Said:
Nice piece. Thanks for the good work.

Wondering if you have any insight on the Eddie Scott wrist injury you referenced?



Eddie has a ligament issue in his wrist. Sidelined for a few weeks at least.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
12-28-17 11:04 PM - Post#241497    
    In response to PennFan10

Kind of related to my point about Jelani -- I believe that Scott is below the game limit for a medical redshirt. So if he is out for the season, he potentially could still have 4 full years of eligibility.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1108

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-28-17 11:50 PM - Post#241500    
    In response to SomeGuy

If you are considering redshirting in the Ivy League. That isn’t allowed. He’d have to play that 4th year at a non-league school. I’m assuming he just completed his semester instead of withdrawing from Penn for the year, similar to what Alex Rosenberg, Siyani Chambers and others have done.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 01:23 AM - Post#241502    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I believe that is a Harvard rule (among others), and not a league rule. It's been a while since Penn has had a 5th year player (so maybe the rule has changed), but we've had a number, and as best I can remember none took the year off from school. Obviously they can't graduate, but I think they can take 5 years to finish (and play 4 of them).

Tyler Bernardini is the last player to do it for Penn, I believe.

Edited by SomeGuy on 12-29-17 01:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1761

Reg: 02-15-15
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 03:01 AM - Post#241505    
    In response to SomeGuy

That is correct. Yale rule too I think.

 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1036
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 03:20 AM - Post#241506    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
That is correct. Yale rule too I think.



And Princeton rule.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
jmverlin 
Sophomore
Posts: 139

Age: 29
Reg: 07-18-12
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 10:43 AM - Post#241516    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
I believe that is a Harvard rule (among others), and not a league rule. It's been a while since Penn has had a 5th year player (so maybe the rule has changed), but we've had a number, and as best I can remember none took the year off from school. Obviously they can't graduate, but I think they can take 5 years to finish (and play 4 of them).

Tyler Bernardini is the last player to do it for Penn, I believe.



Does Matt MacDonald count? He's in his fifth year in college right now. I know he transferred in, but still.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1108

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 11:03 AM - Post#241517    
    In response to jmverlin

I believe that the Ivy League Rule prohibiting a fifth year of eligibility has been discussed on this Board and confirmed a few times in the past years.

A quick search yielded a College Insider article on Alex Rosenberg that provides:

"The Ivy League prohibits graduate students from competing in athletics, eliminating the medical redshirt concept that enables student-athletes in other conferences to receive a fifth year of eligibility. Had Rosenberg completed his coursework, graduated in 2015 and enrolled in a master’s program at Columbia, he would have been ineligible for the Lions in 2015-16, despite logging minutes in just three seasons.

A few days after his Oct. 28 surgery, Rosenberg withdrew from school."

http://collegeinsider.com/ari-kramer/c234/alex- ros...

I've also found multiple sources stating that the Ivy League expects an athlete to complete his/her degree in the first 8 semesters after enrollment. Redshirting is explicity discussed by Ivy Rules and either prohibited or discouraged to the point where it is impossible for basketball players due to the academic calendar.

This is why Ivy players who graduate after 4 years but have played less than 3 seasons have to go outside the league to use that elibility. For example:
Hans Brase (Princeton - Iowa St.)
Henry Caruso (Princeton - Santa Clara)
Shonn Miller (Cornell - UConn)
David Onuorah (Cornell - UConn)
Patrick Steeves (Harvard - GW)
Rafael Maya (Brown - Pitt)

The alternative is to withdraw from school, then return for your fourth academic and athletic year:
Siyani Chambers
Alex Rosenberg

Tony Hicks was different, as he withdrew from basketball, not enrollment. He wanted to leave Penn basketball, but was able to retain his eligibility outside the Ivy League because he hadn't played 4 years.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 12-29-17 11:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3759

Reg: 11-22-04
12-29-17 11:18 AM - Post#241518    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Yeah, bud, why don't you sit over in the corner while you let people who know do the talking. Penn DEFINITELY allows people 5 years to complete 4 years of athletic eligibility so long as they don't graduate. It has happened a bunch of times but includes:

Tyler Bernardini
Frank Brown
Andy Barratta
Geoff Owens

We don't have a barbaric and unfair student rule that makes people withdraw from classes just because they hurt themselves in service of the university.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 11:24 AM - Post#241519    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I believe that article was wrong -- it's a Columbia rule, not a league rule. In regard to Miller, I believe he could have stayed at Cornell if he did not graduate, and I think there was some disappointment that he chose to play his 4th year elsewhere. At least BRF was disappointed.



 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2396
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
12-29-17 02:27 PM - Post#241540    
    In response to SomeGuy

Yes, at Penn (and about half the other Ivy's) it is possible to take a 5th year of eligibility with a medical hardship waiver. I believe the other necessary element is that you have to be working towards certain academic requirements, but ironically it can't be graduate work (as I recall kids usually take up a second undergraduate major).

Personally think it is ridiculous that the other schools don't allow it without leaving school which is completely counter to what is best academically for the students.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 750

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
12-29-17 02:46 PM - Post#241543    
    In response to Mike Porter

I think the Penn players, who include Vince Curran, took a double major. They did not do graduate or professional school work.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3438

Reg: 11-23-04
12-29-17 05:44 PM - Post#241577    
    In response to section110

And you will be lucky enough to pay another year of tuition.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
12-30-17 12:55 AM - Post#241607    
    In response to Old Bear

Curious what the fin aid implications are. Can you get 5 years of aid?

 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
01-06-18 07:23 PM - Post#242476    
    In response to SomeGuy

Who cares about the Ivy or Harvard rule. The most important take I got from this article is that the Abner's rule is still in existence. But, when did it change from meatball subs to cheesesteaks?

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2396
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
01-06-18 10:17 PM - Post#242507    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

It was always cheesesteaks when I was a student (Dan Solomito era to age myself) so at least last 20 years.

 
91Quake 
Masters Student
Posts: 626

Reg: 11-22-04
01-07-18 10:11 AM - Post#242548    
    In response to Mike Porter

Agreed. I go a little further back than that and it was never meatball subs in my experience so almost 30 years.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3622

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
01-07-18 12:05 PM - Post#242570    
    In response to 91Quake

Nor in mine and I go back a few more years than you.


 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 732

Reg: 11-29-04
01-07-18 12:16 PM - Post#242576    
    In response to TheLine

I don't remember that Abner's even served meatball subs!

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3217

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-07-18 12:17 PM - Post#242577    
    In response to TheLine

What is this 'meat-ball submarine' of which you speak? I know of no such thing.

 
JDP 
Junior
Posts: 224

Reg: 11-23-04
01-07-18 04:19 PM - Post#242598    
    In response to Silver Maple

My favorite meatball sub was Sophie’s by Hill House

 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-07-18 06:01 PM - Post#242605    
    In response to JDP

I just remembered what the deal was. I believe Abner's opened in 1984. Before Abner's was Abner's, the restaurant was called Pagano's and the specialty was meatball subs. The deal then was if any Big 5 team scored 100 at the Palestra, Pagano's gave away free meatball subs. During the 1982-83 season the deal was changed just for the Penn-Princeton game so that if the combined score was more than 100, everybody got meatball subs. This was pre shot clock and Penn won the first game at Jadwin 41-39. As fate would have it, Penn totally collapsed at the end of that season and lost the game in the Palestra 60-49. The loss was heartbreaking but all of us in that sold out Palestra crowd got a free meatball sub.

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 821

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
01-07-18 06:04 PM - Post#242606    
    In response to JDP

  • JDP Said:
My favorite meatball sub was Sophie’s by Hill House


Oh man, Sophie's was the best. Introduced me to spanikopita.

 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-07-18 06:14 PM - Post#242608    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Sophie's was great and years ahead of its time, before food trucks became chik. They would make a killing if they could reopen today.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 14418

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
01-07-18 06:18 PM - Post#242609    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

Yes Sophie’s. Also Lebus.

 
JDP 
Junior
Posts: 224

Reg: 11-23-04
01-07-18 06:30 PM - Post#242612    
    In response to 10Q

One of my New Years resolutions is to see if the myth is true

George's son-in-law now operates a food cart in front of the Franklin Institute and continues making these same cheesesteaks.

https://www.chowhound.com/post/sophies-food-tru ck-...

 
13otto 
Masters Student
Posts: 505
13otto
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-07-18 06:50 PM - Post#242613    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

  • Big R&B Truth Said:
I just remembered what the deal was. I believe Abner's opened in 1984. Before Abner's was Abner's, the restaurant was called Pagano's and the specialty was meatball subs. The deal then was if any Big 5 team scored 100 at the Palestra, Pagano's gave away free meatball subs. During the 1982-83 season the deal was changed just for the Penn-Princeton game so that if the combined score was more than 100, everybody got meatball subs. This was pre shot clock and Penn won the first game at Jadwin 41-39. As fate would have it, Penn totally collapsed at the end of that season and lost the game in the Palestra 60-49. The loss was heartbreaking but all of us in that sold out Palestra crowd got a free meatball sub.


To refresh your memory, that 60-49 game you referenced (Feb. 22, 1983) actually was played at the Spectrum. The other game of that Spectrum doubleheader was St. Joe's-Villanova. To this day, I still think Penn wins that game had it been played at the Palestra.
http://www.letsgoquakers.com/


 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-07-18 07:03 PM - Post#242614    
    In response to 13otto

Yes I think you are correct.
I have might have gotten this game confused with the game in 1984. All I know is that we got free meatball subs out of the combined score of the Penn-Princeton game being over 100.

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-07-18 08:42 PM - Post#242615    
    In response to 13otto

Charles Harris cemented his legacy with that scheduling decision.


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3217

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-07-18 09:25 PM - Post#242618    
    In response to JDP

  • JDP Said:
My favorite meatball sub was Sophie’s by Hill House



Hands down, the best meatball sub I've ever had can be found at the White House Sub Shop in AC. I have dreams about that thing.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18624

Reg: 11-21-04
01-07-18 09:31 PM - Post#242620    
    In response to Silver Maple

Croce's in Cherry Hill blows that place out of the water on every sandwich it makes.

IMHO

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3217

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-07-18 09:34 PM - Post#242622    
    In response to palestra38

Duly noted. I'll check it out next time I come south.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2396
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-08-18 02:25 AM - Post#242638    
    In response to Silver Maple

My food truck of choice when I was there was Frita's in front of DRL (and near Palrestra funny enough). Had many a tasty egg sandwich and cheesesteak/pizza cheesesteak, especially my first 2 years when I was in engineering (way back in 97-99). Wonder if they are still there?

Edited by Mike Porter on 01-08-18 02:26 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1026

Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-08-18 07:22 AM - Post#242642    
    In response to Chip Bayers

  • Chip Bayers Said:
Charles Harris cemented his legacy with that scheduling decision.



He did indeed. Everyone I knew was livid about having to play the game at the Spectrum as opposed to the Palestra. Count me among those who will go to the grave convinced that this decision cost us the game.


 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 821

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-08-18 10:32 AM - Post#242660    
    In response to Mike Porter

  • Mike Porter Said:
My food truck of choice when I was there was Frita's in front of DRL (and near Palrestra funny enough). Had many a tasty egg sandwich and cheesesteak/pizza cheesesteak, especially my first 2 years when I was in engineering (way back in 97-99). Wonder if they are still there?


Frita was really sweet. Always gave me a big smile as I got myself a $0.25 pretzel slathered in mustard pretty much every afternoon following calculus/physics/astronom y classes in DRL.

Edited by T.P.F.K.A.D.W. on 01-08-18 10:33 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18624

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
01-08-18 10:36 AM - Post#242663    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Anyone else remember Eddy Eggroll outside the Psych Lab Building?

 
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