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Username Post: Penn out of the Dark Ages?        (Topic#20891)
jmverlin 
Sophomore
Posts: 152

Age: 30
Reg: 07-18-12
12-28-17 03:22 PM - Post#241472    

My column after last night's win over DSU: http://www.cityofbasketballlove.com/news_article/s...

- Josh

 
91Quake 
Masters Student
Posts: 628

Reg: 11-22-04
12-28-17 03:58 PM - Post#241475    
    In response to jmverlin

Nice piece. Thanks for the good work.

Wondering if you have any insight on the Eddie Scott wrist injury you referenced?

 
yoyo 
Junior
Posts: 209

Reg: 03-25-09
12-28-17 03:58 PM - Post#241476    
    In response to 91Quake

Thanks Josh, yes last night was fun and I agree we are finally emerging from the darkness.

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 776

Reg: 11-29-04
12-28-17 04:54 PM - Post#241482    
    In response to yoyo


"I think everyone on the team has that swagger about us, we all love each other and we’re all good friends and we’re all invested in each other, and we’re all going to work hard and that’s pretty much how the team runs.”

I see gratuitous quotes from athletes all of the time, but I really believe Jones means it. This team really exudes this philosophy. And that is why it will be one of my favorite Penn teams - even if they don't win a championship. I felt the same way about the Paul Chambers 2nd place team. They didn't win, but they set the tone for the next decade of Penn championships. They worked their tails off.



 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1847

Reg: 02-15-15
12-28-17 07:32 PM - Post#241485    
    In response to 91Quake

  • 91Quake Said:
Nice piece. Thanks for the good work.

Wondering if you have any insight on the Eddie Scott wrist injury you referenced?



Eddie has a ligament issue in his wrist. Sidelined for a few weeks at least.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4624

Reg: 11-22-04
12-28-17 11:04 PM - Post#241497    
    In response to PennFan10

Kind of related to my point about Jelani -- I believe that Scott is below the game limit for a medical redshirt. So if he is out for the season, he potentially could still have 4 full years of eligibility.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1146

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
12-28-17 11:50 PM - Post#241500    
    In response to SomeGuy

If you are considering redshirting in the Ivy League. That isn’t allowed. He’d have to play that 4th year at a non-league school. I’m assuming he just completed his semester instead of withdrawing from Penn for the year, similar to what Alex Rosenberg, Siyani Chambers and others have done.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4624

Reg: 11-22-04
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 01:23 AM - Post#241502    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I believe that is a Harvard rule (among others), and not a league rule. It's been a while since Penn has had a 5th year player (so maybe the rule has changed), but we've had a number, and as best I can remember none took the year off from school. Obviously they can't graduate, but I think they can take 5 years to finish (and play 4 of them).

Tyler Bernardini is the last player to do it for Penn, I believe.

Edited by SomeGuy on 12-29-17 01:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1847

Reg: 02-15-15
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 03:01 AM - Post#241505    
    In response to SomeGuy

That is correct. Yale rule too I think.

 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1038
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 03:20 AM - Post#241506    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
That is correct. Yale rule too I think.



And Princeton rule.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
jmverlin 
Sophomore
Posts: 152

Age: 30
Reg: 07-18-12
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 10:43 AM - Post#241516    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
I believe that is a Harvard rule (among others), and not a league rule. It's been a while since Penn has had a 5th year player (so maybe the rule has changed), but we've had a number, and as best I can remember none took the year off from school. Obviously they can't graduate, but I think they can take 5 years to finish (and play 4 of them).

Tyler Bernardini is the last player to do it for Penn, I believe.



Does Matt MacDonald count? He's in his fifth year in college right now. I know he transferred in, but still.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1146

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 11:03 AM - Post#241517    
    In response to jmverlin

I believe that the Ivy League Rule prohibiting a fifth year of eligibility has been discussed on this Board and confirmed a few times in the past years.

A quick search yielded a College Insider article on Alex Rosenberg that provides:

"The Ivy League prohibits graduate students from competing in athletics, eliminating the medical redshirt concept that enables student-athletes in other conferences to receive a fifth year of eligibility. Had Rosenberg completed his coursework, graduated in 2015 and enrolled in a master’s program at Columbia, he would have been ineligible for the Lions in 2015-16, despite logging minutes in just three seasons.

A few days after his Oct. 28 surgery, Rosenberg withdrew from school."

http://collegeinsider.com/ari-kramer/c234/alex- ros...

I've also found multiple sources stating that the Ivy League expects an athlete to complete his/her degree in the first 8 semesters after enrollment. Redshirting is explicity discussed by Ivy Rules and either prohibited or discouraged to the point where it is impossible for basketball players due to the academic calendar.

This is why Ivy players who graduate after 4 years but have played less than 3 seasons have to go outside the league to use that elibility. For example:
Hans Brase (Princeton - Iowa St.)
Henry Caruso (Princeton - Santa Clara)
Shonn Miller (Cornell - UConn)
David Onuorah (Cornell - UConn)
Patrick Steeves (Harvard - GW)
Rafael Maya (Brown - Pitt)

The alternative is to withdraw from school, then return for your fourth academic and athletic year:
Siyani Chambers
Alex Rosenberg

Tony Hicks was different, as he withdrew from basketball, not enrollment. He wanted to leave Penn basketball, but was able to retain his eligibility outside the Ivy League because he hadn't played 4 years.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 12-29-17 11:10 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3794

Reg: 11-22-04
12-29-17 11:18 AM - Post#241518    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Yeah, bud, why don't you sit over in the corner while you let people who know do the talking. Penn DEFINITELY allows people 5 years to complete 4 years of athletic eligibility so long as they don't graduate. It has happened a bunch of times but includes:

Tyler Bernardini
Frank Brown
Andy Barratta
Geoff Owens

We don't have a barbaric and unfair student rule that makes people withdraw from classes just because they hurt themselves in service of the university.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4624

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Penn out of the Dark Ages?
12-29-17 11:24 AM - Post#241519    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I believe that article was wrong -- it's a Columbia rule, not a league rule. In regard to Miller, I believe he could have stayed at Cornell if he did not graduate, and I think there was some disappointment that he chose to play his 4th year elsewhere. At least BRF was disappointed.



 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2409
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
12-29-17 02:27 PM - Post#241540    
    In response to SomeGuy

Yes, at Penn (and about half the other Ivy's) it is possible to take a 5th year of eligibility with a medical hardship waiver. I believe the other necessary element is that you have to be working towards certain academic requirements, but ironically it can't be graduate work (as I recall kids usually take up a second undergraduate major).

Personally think it is ridiculous that the other schools don't allow it without leaving school which is completely counter to what is best academically for the students.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 752

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
12-29-17 02:46 PM - Post#241543    
    In response to Mike Porter

I think the Penn players, who include Vince Curran, took a double major. They did not do graduate or professional school work.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3450

Reg: 11-23-04
12-29-17 05:44 PM - Post#241577    
    In response to section110

And you will be lucky enough to pay another year of tuition.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4624

Reg: 11-22-04
12-30-17 12:55 AM - Post#241607    
    In response to Old Bear

Curious what the fin aid implications are. Can you get 5 years of aid?

 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
01-06-18 07:23 PM - Post#242476    
    In response to SomeGuy

Who cares about the Ivy or Harvard rule. The most important take I got from this article is that the Abner's rule is still in existence. But, when did it change from meatball subs to cheesesteaks?

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2409
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
01-06-18 10:17 PM - Post#242507    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

It was always cheesesteaks when I was a student (Dan Solomito era to age myself) so at least last 20 years.

 
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