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Username Post: To Beat Princeton        (Topic#20900)
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2193

Reg: 11-23-04
01-02-18 09:58 AM - Post#241731    
    In response to Penndemonium

The short cut answer is that last year Princeton was in a peak year with lots of vets and experience together while Penn was in a developing year. This year the roles are somewhat reversed with Princeton replacing three key players in its rotation with talented newcomers while Penn moves forward with a core of players more experienced together. The key for Princeton is how quickly they can gel together and how successfully they can replace their losses.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 12995

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
01-02-18 10:06 AM - Post#241732    
    In response to Tiger69

The key for Princeton is not sucking, a hurdle that is probably beyond reach.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2193

Reg: 11-23-04
01-02-18 10:34 AM - Post#241734    
    In response to 10Q

Your comments always reaffirm my belief that Penn has come a long way in the past few years

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 750

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
01-02-18 10:58 AM - Post#241736    
    In response to 10Q

  • 10Q Said:
The key for Princeton is not sucking, a hurdle that is probably beyond reach.


Prediction: While it's still very early, this shall withstand the test of time and be crowned Comment of the Year.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3376

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
01-02-18 11:08 AM - Post#241737    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

I haven't seen much (no pun intended) of Princeton this year. Princeton is better than its record from what I've seen, with Henderson doing his usual excellent job of integrating his new starters and rotation players so they are ready for league play. I agree with Jerome that Much is a handful.

I'd disagree that the roles are reversed. Princeton's core 3 players are more experienced than Penn's, especially considering that Penn's one core senior has been a starter for only a year.


 
yoyo 
Sophomore
Posts: 178

Reg: 03-25-09
01-02-18 12:33 PM - Post#241741    
    In response to TheLine

Foreman has started since his sophomore year

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 630

Reg: 11-29-04
01-02-18 12:50 PM - Post#241742    
    In response to yoyo

From what I've seen, Penn still has boundaries in their ability. The key issue is shooting. The ability to have a great night at the three point line (and foul line) gives a less talented team the upside to beat a good one. Our team plays solidly - pretty good rebounding, decent defense, and an offense that creates about as well as it should. They just don't have many knock down shooters. I think Penn's defense will be under a bit more pressure in the league and they will always vulnerable because of the shooting.

This may not be a championship team, but at least this season is a blast to watch and the program is representing itself well for the future.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2292
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
To Beat Princeton
01-02-18 12:51 PM - Post#241743    
    In response to yoyo

Now that Princeton has gotten past challenges of integrating new comers, they are very good. Their core 3 of Cannady, Bell, and Stephens have something like 6-7 years of starting for Princeton among them and are as good a top 3 as any in the league. Much now looks every part the 3 star recruit and frankly looks as "Princeton" as you can get. For me, the biggest concern is their 3 point shooting... literally everyone that plays can hit and their team average is just a shade under 40% for 39th best in the country.

By the numbers, their defense isn't as good as it has been over their last few years and I do like our depth a bit better.

I think the key for Penn is the guys have to hit open 3s in this game and on defense we need to chase them off the line and not over foul.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1302

Reg: 02-15-15
01-02-18 12:59 PM - Post#241745    
    In response to Mike Porter

Much has recently been starting and I'd expect him to start this Friday at the Palestra but Princeton is all about the big 3 of Cannaday, Bell and Stephens. Each of them plays 30+ minutes a game and take a majority of the shots. Much has played 20-25 minutes most of the games and is averaging 8pts and 3 rebounds. He 56 of his 84 shots have been 3 ptrs and he is making 39%. His game is a concern, but he is not the focus. Max will be on him.

How we guard the other 3 will tell the story of this game. As for our offense, Princeton's defensive strategy has been consistent. They hard hedge ball screens and rotate when you reverse it. They double the post and rotate aggressively. They will leave our worst 3 pt shooters open so our execution (passing/reversing the ball) and ability to break down their defense to get good shots will be the key.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 10142

Reg: 12-02-04
01-02-18 01:13 PM - Post#241746    
    In response to PennFan10

Princeton has too many guys who can hurt you, at least compared to Penn.

Doesn't mean that Penn can't win, but we have less margin of error to work with than our rivals.

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 750

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
01-02-18 01:31 PM - Post#241751    
    In response to penn nation

Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game?

 
jeromelh 
Freshman
Posts: 34

Age: 75
Reg: 03-30-17
01-02-18 01:33 PM - Post#241752    
    In response to penn nation

Hi Penn Fan
Have to respectfully disagree with you. Much as been the glue. He is a great passer and when he is not on the floor, Princeton struggles. He has been getting better every game, i.e. scoring more, shooting more accurately, etc. But Penn Nation is correct. We have good players off the bench.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 10142

Reg: 12-02-04
01-02-18 01:44 PM - Post#241753    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

  • T.P.F.K.A.D.W. Said:
Let's turn the tables. If you're Princeton, what are your major concerns regarding Penn heading into this game?



AJ and Max down low, and Betley from anywhere.

Let the others shoot away, except for Jones when he's in.


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3376

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
01-02-18 01:49 PM - Post#241754    
    In response to yoyo

Thanks for the correction yoyo. You're right - Foreman started the 2nd half of his sophomore year, then the 2nd half of his junior year. Which I think still gives him less time as a starter than Princeton's core 3.

And I'm going to agree with everyone. Yes, Princeton has become more multi-faceted than they were at the beginning of the season. Yes, it's important to focus first on Cannady-Stephens-Bell. And yes, it makes sense to have Rothschild on Much.

I think the key is how well Foreman and Woods play against Cannady and Bell.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 10142

Reg: 12-02-04
01-02-18 01:52 PM - Post#241756    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:

I think the key is how well Foreman and Woods play against Cannady and Bell.




If this is how we're going to frame it, we've already lost the game. Have to assume that both Cannady and Bell will be able to penetrate at times--the question is how does the rest of the team defend them.

The situation was reversed a few seasons ago with Hicks vs. Princeton. Hicks would go off for a while, but eventually Princeton would adjust as a team and he'd get stymied once getting by the first guy.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3376

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
01-02-18 02:06 PM - Post#241758    
    In response to penn nation

If Cannady and Bell consistently blow by Foreman and Woods then it's going to be a long game. I don't expect they will be able to stop Cannady and Bell all the time but the Penn guards need to slow down the Princeton guards and keep them off the boards.

Alternative way of winning is if Jones, Wood or Donahue have a David Lardner-esque night.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 10142

Reg: 12-02-04
01-02-18 02:11 PM - Post#241760    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:
If Cannady and Bell consistently blow by Foreman and Woods then it's going to be a long game. I don't expect they will be able to stop Cannady and Bell all the time but the Penn guards need to slow down the Princeton guards and keep them off the boards.




One on one, they'll probably be OK. But Princeton being Princeton, it will be about the picks being set to free them up. I definitely agree about the rebounding--our guards will need to be especially vigilant given that AJ and Max might not always the closest defenders to the ball.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1302

Reg: 02-15-15
01-02-18 02:14 PM - Post#241761    
    In response to jeromelh

  • jeromelh Said:
Hi Penn Fan
Have to respectfully disagree with you. Much as been the glue. He is a great passer and when he is not on the floor, Princeton struggles. He has been getting better every game, i.e. scoring more, shooting more accurately, etc. But Penn Nation is correct. We have good players off the bench.



Much is the key for Princeton because he gives them a 4th option, just like when Antonio makes 3's or Max gets a double/double, it makes the big 3 harder to defend. If we can limit Princeton's big 3 to 40% of the points or less then I don't care how many points Much scores, we will win the game.

 
jeromelh 
Freshman
Posts: 34

Age: 75
Reg: 03-30-17
01-02-18 02:15 PM - Post#241762    
    In response to jeromelh

Hi TPFKADW
I would be very concerned about penetration by Penn guards. This has been a problem for the Tigers since day one. Hopefully your foul shooting will continue to be a problem because Penn may very well spend a lot of time on the foul line.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3352

Reg: 02-04-06
01-02-18 03:03 PM - Post#241769    
    In response to jeromelh

Yeah, it's been Short Attention Span Theater too many times on defense against drives. One good possession then a bad one, or good for 25 seconds then falling asleep and somebody is at the rim.

 
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