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Username Post: all that happened        (Topic#20939)
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 12061

Reg: 12-02-04
01-08-18 02:20 PM - Post#242714    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:

I have a feeling that if this team wins the conference then some will point to Penn being back and some will point to this being a relatively down year for the league. Both are kind of right, though I think the latter would severely understate the accomplishment.




Disagree. No-one picked Penn to come in 1st this year. If they do (I personally still don't think they'll be the #1 seed, but no matter), I don't care if the league is having a down year--still an incredible accomplishment.


 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 15561

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
01-08-18 02:31 PM - Post#242716    
    In response to penn nation

Excuse me sir. I picked Penn to go 14-0. Remember?

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 4016

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
01-08-18 02:34 PM - Post#242717    
    In response to 10Q

But 10Q, we know you won't bitch about the one loss if Penn goes 13-1 and wins the conference.


 
Okoro Dude 
Junior
Posts: 297

Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 02:46 PM - Post#242719    
    In response to palestra38

1. The LaSalle game came right in the middle of a nearly-disastrous stretch of 7 losses including the 0-6 league start, so you don't get to include that in the amazing 2nd half of season you are looking for.

2. Penn was 6-5 and 146 in the rankings going into the first Princeton game. Ignoring the C. Florida game you dismiss because it doesn't suit your narrative, Penn would still have been 5-5 and ranked near its season ending rank of 171.

3. In the glorious 6-2 stretch to end the season they played 4 weekends:
1 - Sweep Cornell and Columbia at home (you have to agree that a team ranked 171 should sweep these two bad teams at home - a split would be below expectations)
2- Sweep Brown and Yale on road by big margins (played like top 75 team for a weekend)
3- Split Cornell and Columbia on road (no better than what you expect from a team ranked 171)
4 - Split Dartmouth and Harvard at home (no better than what you expect from a team ranked 171)

One hot road weekend is all you have for your narrative.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4712

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 02:46 PM - Post#242720    
    In response to palestra38

We had about the same rank OOC last year that we have this year. We plunged during the first 6 games of the conference season, then more or less righted the ship over the last 8. But our Kenpom rank for even the last 8 games wasn’t better than our OOC rating.

Point is — Okuro Dude and P38 are both wrong. We weren’t linear last year, and we didn’t improve over the season as a whole (though we did if you only look at the conference season, and you break it up just right).

Jeff is wrong too — we are higher in kenpom right now than we were overall last year. So we are better. And the guys we were trying to catch are worse. I don’t see why we can’t be happy with that.



 
yoyo 
Junior
Posts: 215

Reg: 03-25-09
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 02:52 PM - Post#242721    
    In response to Okoro Dude

I am happy

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20031

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 02:54 PM - Post#242722    
    In response to SomeGuy

It's all an attempt to justify a narrative. They predicted a 4th place finish at best so are trying to spin the decline of the league (partially true) rather than the improvement of Penn over their expectations.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 4016

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
01-08-18 03:13 PM - Post#242723    
    In response to palestra38

What gets lost in this thread is that Princeton is still probably the favorite to win the league. And we beat them. And it sure didn't look like a fluke win.

But that was buried in the lede.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20031

Reg: 11-21-04
01-08-18 03:25 PM - Post#242724    
    In response to TheLine

I don't think so. Their guards are really good---upperclassmen who are superior players. But their front line is shallow and I don't think they can stand up to the onslaught that is coming at them in the middle from teams watching the tape of the Penn game. But they'll make the playoff, which is all that matters


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 4016

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
01-08-18 03:28 PM - Post#242725    
    In response to palestra38

Who do you think is the favorite? All the teams have flaws. And it's a coaches league now, they all scout well.


 
Okoro Dude 
Junior
Posts: 297

Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 03:29 PM - Post#242726    
    In response to palestra38

Please, P38, show me all the years where a team ranked 149 wins the league (hint: never). Over the last 8 years, a team ranked 149 would have been either the 3rd or 4th best team in the league in every season. So, yes, if they win the league at their current statistical ranking of 149, it will almost certainly have been because the competition was down. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact I would love it. But, long term, you have to be a top 75 team to win titles in this league and they are nowhere near that today.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20031

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 03:33 PM - Post#242727    
    In response to Okoro Dude

No one will be 75 in the Ivies this year. ..and Donahue is one of the best floor coaches in the league, all else being equal.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 12061

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: all that happened
01-08-18 03:34 PM - Post#242728    
    In response to Okoro Dude

If we are still at 149 by the end of the year--we are not winning the Ivy title.


  • Okoro Dude Said:
Please, P38, show me all the years where a team ranked 149 wins the league (hint: never). Over the last 8 years, a team ranked 149 would have been either the 3rd or 4th best team in the league in every season. So, yes, if they win the league at their current statistical ranking of 149, it will almost certainly have been because the competition was down. There is nothing wrong with that, in fact I would love it. But, long term, you have to be a top 75 team to win titles in this league and they are nowhere near that today.




 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 4016

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
01-08-18 03:40 PM - Post#242730    
    In response to penn nation

It's a down year, I'd think the winner is unlikely to break 100.

129 Princeton
148 Penn
184 Yale
185 Harvard
240 Columbia
241 Brown
245 Cornell
293 Dartmouth


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 12061

Reg: 12-02-04
01-08-18 03:42 PM - Post#242732    
    In response to TheLine

Agreed, although H-P-Y also had pretty strong NCSOS, so that should factor into their rankings as the season further progresses.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3591

Reg: 02-04-06
01-08-18 03:51 PM - Post#242734    
    In response to penn nation

For the optimists among you: Has Rothschild played that well all season, and have he and Brodeur moved the ball that well prior to Friday's game? Because if not, and if Rothschild were to continue to play at that level in the future, Penn's performance going forward would likely be a lot better then it has been to date.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 4016

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
01-08-18 03:58 PM - Post#242735    
    In response to SRP

Rothschild has been real good on the boards all year. His passing has been trending up.

Penn is a tough team to defend against. The whole team is good at moving the the ball around. The biggest weakness on offense has been FT shooting, 2nd biggest weakness is iffy shooting from the starting guards - but then Jones, Wood and Donahue can all score off the bench.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 12061

Reg: 12-02-04
01-08-18 04:00 PM - Post#242736    
    In response to SRP

Max has stepped it up this year. The Princeton game was no fluke.

AJ has always been a good passer. The issue ever since he started Penn, though, has been his play when double teamed.

 
The Pine 
Freshman
Posts: 37

Reg: 02-22-15
01-08-18 04:48 PM - Post#242739    
    In response to penn nation

You guys are fools.

Year 2 of a rebuilding team that is fun to watch and has a chance to win every night. Depth at every position. A real , experienced coach who loves Philly basketball. Better overall quality of players who are not an embarrassment to the university. And... we just beat Princeton for the first time in 4 years.

So what if our KP rank is 140 or this is a down year for the ivy. It wasn't so long ago that Delaware State was a tossup game with 25 fouls, 2 assists and no team chemistry.

Please, tell me, why is anyone complaining?



 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3383

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
01-08-18 04:53 PM - Post#242740    
    In response to The Pine

What he said. Just enjoy being a Penn fan.

 
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