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Username Post: Penn        (Topic#20979)
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2831

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
01-13-18 07:45 PM - Post#243442    

C down 5 at the half, made 30%, 18% treys
Foul shooting poor by both.
Meisner not in foul trouble.
Tape left man free at the top of the key and 3s made

west coast fan


Edited by internetter on 01-13-18 07:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2831

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
01-13-18 09:05 PM - Post#243490    
    In response to internetter

77-71 Penn
After a poor 1st, Smith came alive, 27; Adlesh 15 or so;
Penn made clutch FTs at the end
Meisner stayed out of foul trouble.
west coast fan


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1598

Reg: 10-09-09
01-13-18 09:16 PM - Post#243493    
    In response to internetter

Played better than at princeton, but smith can't do it alone, while Meisner, Castlin, and Tape are all underperforming.



 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1969

Reg: 03-02-08
01-13-18 11:00 PM - Post#243500    
    In response to cc66

Our shooting is pretty bad. And where is the defense on the three? Why is Bibbs not playing?


 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1381

Reg: 11-21-04
01-13-18 11:02 PM - Post#243501    
    In response to Chet Forte

Bibbs is walking around with one foot in one of those flexible shoes.

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1969

Reg: 03-02-08
01-14-18 07:45 AM - Post#243507    
    In response to Dr. V

Cornell, which I had thought was improving, got blown out even worse than we did against Princeton. Just looking at the box score from last night and the night before it seems as if we are having trouble both defending and making the three point shot.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1502

Reg: 02-14-06
01-14-18 12:19 PM - Post#243534    
    In response to Chet Forte

Columbia might have won last night if the Lions got more production from their big men. Engles would be wise to move Meisner outside and start both Tape and Faulds along with Smith and Adlesh. Stefanini is starting to do some very nice things on the court, but the flip side is that Castlin, Hickman and Hanson are obviously uncomfortable in the Lion offense.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 17344

Reg: 11-21-04
01-14-18 12:49 PM - Post#243538    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Naw...those guys weren't going to make a difference offensively (although they were tough off the boards). What would have won the game is if Smith were allowed to freelance from the start as he did in the last 10 minutes and he was as hot as he was then. No one can stop that guy except his coach.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1502

Reg: 02-14-06
01-14-18 09:06 PM - Post#243564    
    In response to palestra38

Why not try a starting line-up of Tape, Faulds, Meisner, Smith and Adlesh? Seems to me that line-up has plenty of upside and very little downside.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4403

Reg: 11-22-04
01-14-18 11:38 PM - Post#243576    
    In response to palestra38

Not sure I agree about that. in terms of what was happening in the first half vs. second half, i think Columbia and Smith played fairly similarly half to half, but how Penn defended changed. And in terms of whether the strategy works, I think you can beat Columbia while letting Smith get his, if he isn't setting anyone else up (which he wasn't). And that was basically the decision Penn made. It may not be a coincidence that we struggled mightily (and trailed multiple times) in the first half while Smith wasn't scoring, and then never trailed (and at times pushed the lead out to double digits) while Smith was scoring.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4403

Reg: 11-22-04
01-14-18 11:47 PM - Post#243577    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Well, the downside at least based on what I saw last night is that Meisner was the only guy who could defend the interior. So playing the two big guys who seemed totally overmatched against Brodeur at the same time seems to have lot of defensive downside. How would your starting five matchup with Penn? Who would guard Betley? It seems like you have to have Hickman/Castlin/Hunter on the floor at all times to guard him (and that would mean starting one of them). It seems like, at least against Penn, the lineup you posit would leave you with bad matchups on both of Penn's primary scorers.

Seems like that would only be worse against the rest of the league, many of whom play smaller than Penn.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1502

Reg: 02-14-06
Penn
01-15-18 12:23 AM - Post#243579    
    In response to SomeGuy

Agree with you about the possible defensive downside of playing Tape and Faulds together with Meisner on the outside, but it seems to me that the potential benefits far exceed the risk. When Engles needs someone smaller to guard Betley or similar players, he could sub Castlin or Hickman for Meisner. Meanwhile, even if the Tape-Faulds combo does not work immediately, you would be giving each of them nearly twice as much playing time as they are now receiving which is bound to be beneficial to Columbia in the long run.

Edited by Columbia 37P6 on 01-15-18 12:23 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1969

Reg: 03-02-08
01-15-18 08:38 AM - Post#243586    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Meisner is our second best player. The coaches have to figure out a way to keep him from getting in foul trouble. While I would be intrigued by a big lineup I think we need the flexibility to rotate the only three big men we have by having only two of them on the court at any one time. That to me means giving Meisner 32 minutes and bringing Tape off the bench while starting Faulds. I say that because Faulds has a more complete offensive game than Tape and I think Tape is better coming off the bench. Castlin has to start. He will shake off the rust and is a much better player than Hunter or Hickman. In the backcourt along with Smith I think we need to stick with Adlesh, who is a tough kid and a really good all around player. I would like to see more of Bibbs. He seems to have a real upside and is silky smooth. Hansen is a natural small forward, and Stefanini is also a tough kid. But right now whoever is out there, the book on us is that we cannot defend the three point shot—which is a coaching issue— and we cannot put enough guys in the floor who can make the three point shot, which is a player/recruiting issue. But what puzzles me is how we can play tough against the U Conns, Villanovas and the like while getting blown out by a team like Princeton.


 
RHunter3 
Junior
Posts: 259
RHunter3
Reg: 12-02-14
01-15-18 08:40 AM - Post#243587    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

The thing that sticks out for me is 3 assist as a team with 0 from the PG's.
24% form 3's and 39.4% FG's

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 17344

Reg: 11-21-04
01-15-18 09:16 AM - Post#243589    
    In response to Chet Forte

Because you match up terribly with Princeton, which has 3 scoring guards that are bigger and stronger (and shoot better) than CU's guards and, unlike Penn, you can't create a mismatch with their undersized front court. And they shoot FTs well, unlike Penn, which allowed CU to stay in this one.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4403

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Penn
01-15-18 09:17 AM - Post#243591    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

A question for the kenpom subscribers or Mike James (or a Columbia statistician): what are the stats for Faulds/Tape playing with Smith? I ask because, at least against Penn, it seemed that Smith didn't do much when they were on the floor, and then he went off in the second half when both were out. It looked like Columbia needed to spread the floor (i.e. use Meisner as the sole big) in order to give Smith room to play his version of hero ball.

 
Chet Forte 
PhD Student
Posts: 1969

Reg: 03-02-08
01-15-18 12:50 PM - Post#243614    
    In response to SomeGuy

I also think we miss CJ Davis, who is probably the strongest backcourt player on the team, and Jake Killingsworth , who has good size and a decent three point shot. Smith, while a great player, and Adlesh, a good player, make up the shortest backcourt in the league. Both of them are very strong but just not tall enough to match up well against teams playing three tall guards at the same time.


 
internetter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2831

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
01-15-18 01:03 PM - Post#243615    
    In response to Chet Forte

Whatever the combinations on the floor, the glaring problem is consistency. Smith, Meisner are prime examples, with poor halves in one case, virtual disappearances in the other.
west coast fan


 
Murph 
Masters Student
Posts: 595

Age: 57
Reg: 09-13-11
01-15-18 01:58 PM - Post#243625    
    In response to internetter

Let's face it, we had very little chance of beating Princeton or Penn on the road last weekend. The important thing is that Engles is finally shortening his rotation in an effort to develop some chemistry. And the team is slowly responding. The Lions stayed in the game the whole way against Penn, and even had a slight chance of winning down the stretch. That's a huge improvement.

If I were Engles, I'd stick to this starting lineup, and I'd stick with his short rotation of Castlin, Fauld, Stefanini and Hunter off the bench.

It's getting late early, but it's not over yet. For all intents and purposes, our season starts this weekend at home against Cornell. If we can win these two Cornell games, we're right back in contention for the Ivy tournament.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4403

Reg: 11-22-04
01-15-18 03:26 PM - Post#243642    
    In response to Murph

I will say that, after reading the board, I was expecting Hickman to look a lot worse than he did Saturday. I thought he was Columbia's best perimeter defender (with the toughest assignment), he had a beautiful assist in the first couple of minutes (it stood out at the time, but even more in hindsight since there weren't many more for the Lions), and he appeared to be the leader in the huddle.

 
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