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Username Post: Penn        (Topic#21086)
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1016

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
02-02-18 09:34 PM - Post#245726    

Heartbreaker. At one point the refs looked up and saw it was 10-4 in 2nd half fouls in favor of Brown and remedied that right quick. Penn closed it out despite not hitting field goals - everything from the line. I won’t say we got Jammed Up Our A$$e$ but it evened out quickly. This was a true Home Job. Free throws - Penn 44 - Brown 19. I’m sorry, but no.

Despite that, I though Wood and Woods were fantastic. Two terrific games.

Cambridge was exceptional. What a special performance. Actually lots of good performances on offense against a very, very tough defensive team. Defensively it was loose, but I thought they defended exceptionally well down the stretch, forcing points from the line - which was the only place they were going to get them.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1999

Reg: 02-15-15
02-02-18 10:14 PM - Post#245746    
    In response to Bruno

They got points from the line because that’s where Brown put them. Otherwise it’s a runaway

 
jst4245 
Freshman
Posts: 57

Age: 44
Reg: 05-23-12
02-02-18 10:17 PM - Post#245749    
    In response to Bruno

Could not believe how atrocious the officiating was. But a 44-19 FT advantage for Penn with 0 players who can get into the lane off the bounce. What a joke. Agree with Bruno officials must have looked up and felt some need to even out the fouls?

Cambridge is a monster. Choh gets better every night. Hunsaker starting to put it together. Im going to hold Anderson to a pretty high bar here and be a tad critical - he needs to get significantly better on defense. Way too many breakdowns when he is on the ball, its near automatic.

Heres to hoping they are young and naive enough to not be drained heading into tomorrow night!







 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20063

Reg: 11-21-04
02-02-18 10:37 PM - Post#245750    
    In response to jst4245

Truly amazing how good Cambridge is...how did Penn let a guy like that get away?

That being said, the fouls were undercalled against Brown, not overcalled. They are young and inexperienced. They grabbed and blocked, tackled and shoved. Very aggressive, especially in the 2nd half when the refs were calling less. But it came down to the fact that down the stretch, Brown couldn't hit the outside shots they were hitting in the 1st half.

Brown is going to be a beast over the next few years.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1999

Reg: 02-15-15
02-02-18 11:06 PM - Post#245754    
    In response to palestra38

You guys are comical. Mike Martin told his team that Penn is one of the worst FT shooting teams in the country so play aggressive defense down the stretch. They mugged Penn on every possession. Cho mugged Max, Anderson hacked Darnell, and your guy missed 2 FT to tie it and Choe got blocked to tie it. Blame the refs all you want but eventually your players need to look in the mirror.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20063

Reg: 11-21-04
02-02-18 11:11 PM - Post#245756    
    In response to PennFan10

Don't be too arrogant, as we were lucky to win. They will be very good as soon as they learn how to use their athleticism to get position on defense. But they cannot deny that they didn't score in the last 4 minutes---that is why they didn't win.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1999

Reg: 02-15-15
02-02-18 11:18 PM - Post#245757    
    In response to palestra38

Oh we easily could have lost the game and I would not have been surprised. But to blame the refs sounds more like our Penn fans after a tough loss. The refs were terrible for both teams. I said on the IL board that I would take the over and Brown would cover the spread. Brown will win some big games this season. They have some great young players.

 
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1016

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
02-02-18 11:35 PM - Post#245760    
    In response to PennFan10

FT count last 10 minutes of the game:
Penn 18
Brown 4

Not including the last 6 Penn got for free.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1999

Reg: 02-15-15
02-02-18 11:51 PM - Post#245762    
    In response to Bruno

  • Bruno Said:
FT count last 10 minutes of the game:
Penn 18
Brown 4

Not including the last 6 Penn got for free.



So what? Which foul calls were wrong and which ones on Brown were missed? You can watch the fouls by Cambridge and Anderson in frame by frame slow motion as well as the block of Cho by AJ and the fouls call on Darnell that was his 5th. Which were wrong?



 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3467

Reg: 11-23-04
02-03-18 09:35 AM - Post#245793    
    In response to PennFan10

RBs, TOs, Assists, FT% and Blocks were all about even, but Penn was whistled for 18 and Brown for 30 fouls. IMO the difference was the fouls not called on the Quakers. Bruno is not totally objective, but he is correct in his analysis.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5327

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-03-18 10:54 AM - Post#245805    
    In response to palestra38

And it’s not like Cambridge flew under the radar. He was a teens scorer on the EYBL circuit. I know AAU gets maligned, but producing like that on that circuit is usually a strong indicator of being able to do it at the D-I level.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 862

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
02-03-18 12:30 PM - Post#245815    
    In response to Old Bear

I had the opportunity to watch a good portion of the game and I thought that the Bears outplayed Penn. The number of foul shots were very different but that does not mean that the refs called a bad game. I did think that there were some questionable calls more so against Brown but you are playing on the road. At the end, it really does not matter. Brown had plenty of opportunities to win.

I must admit that it is ironic with the comments from a Penn fan based on the past -- somewhat laughable.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 20063

Reg: 11-21-04
Penn
02-03-18 12:44 PM - Post#245819    
    In response to bradley

No question that Brown outplayed Penn for most of the game. But the fouls reflected the relative ability of the teams to get in position on defense. A Princeton fan who saw Penn lose to Princeton on the line last year at Princeton after soundly outplaying Princeton most of the game must understand that.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1999

Reg: 02-15-15
02-03-18 01:03 PM - Post#245824    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:


I must admit that it is ironic with the comments from a Penn fan based on the past -- somewhat laughable.



I take the to mean the entire Penn fan base as my track record regarding officials has been quite consistent. E.g. two weeks ago there was an uproar about an officialsmcall against Penn at the end of the Temple game and I was the only Penn Fan focused on what Penn did wrong at the end.



 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 8616

Reg: 12-07-04
02-03-18 01:09 PM - Post#245825    
    In response to PennFan10

A Brown guard literally inbounded the ball to himself in a crucial spot and was handed a free do-over. There can be no complaining when one is granted that type of game-saving gift.

 
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1016

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
02-03-18 02:02 PM - Post#245830    
    In response to Quakers03

18-4 over the last 10 minutes. Not including the last 6. Against a team that gets to the line more than most in the nation. That’s not just more - that’s 4.5x more when it mattered the most.

We call it a Home Job. I’m not sure why you’re so upset. You got the win.

I like that you are still talking about this though, with the data so clearly overwhelming.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1277

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-03-18 02:03 PM - Post#245831    
    In response to Quakers03

Looks like the game played out as I had expected.

Biggest difference - and possibly the difference in the outcome - was Penn's FT defense. Penn shot marginally above average, but Brown was not true to form. Hunsaker was 33-34 coming into the game, and missed 2 of 4; Cambridge (80%) was 1 for 4; Anderson (88%) was 3 for 5.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3467

Reg: 11-23-04
02-03-18 02:08 PM - Post#245833    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Cambridge was closer to 88% for the year. A better FT % for the Bears could have made the difference, despite the Refs.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1999

Reg: 02-15-15
02-03-18 05:44 PM - Post#245862    
    In response to Bruno

  • Bruno Said:
18-4 over the last 10 minutes. Not including the last 6. Against a team that gets to the line more than most in the nation. That’s not just more - that’s 4.5x more when it mattered the most.

We call it a Home Job. I’m not sure why you’re so upset. You got the win.

I like that you are still talking about this though, with the data so clearly overwhelming.



To take a closer look at your "overwhelming data":

1st half: Fouls were Brown 11, Penn 5 yet Brown shot 9 FT to Penn's 7. Not much of an advantage there.

2nd half: Fouls were Brown 12, Penn 12. Brown shot 11 FT and Penn shot 15

OT: Fouls were Brown 7, Penn 1. Brown shot 2 FT, Penn shot 14.

So there is nothing really abnormal in the data from regulation. A closer look at OT is required.

I went a looked at every possession from the last 5 minutes of regulation through OT to see about these "non calls" and foul discrepancy. at the 3 minute mark Brown was leading by 6 so I am not sure there is much to complain about prior to that (there were a few calls/no calls that evened out but I don't think anyone would say those 2 min were advantageous to either side)

The possessions in the final 5 minutes were 8 for Brown and 8 for Penn. Brown shot 3 jumpers, had 3 drives to the basket, turned it over 1x and had 1 jump ball on a missed alley oop play. Of those 3 drives they made one layup, had one blocked by AJ that resulted in a foul (bad call) and Cho had his shot blocked by AJ with no foul (looked like a good call-though Martin argued aggressively).

Penn had 2 missed 3pters 5 drives and one turnover. The 5 drives resulted in 4 trips to the FT line. Of those 4 foul calls I thought 2 were good calls (the Brown players did not object) and 2 were questionable. The officials also missed a travel against Darnell that preceded one of those fouls.

In OT:
Brown had 10 possessions and shot 6 jumpers and went 2-5 with 1 foul called. They had 4 drives and missed 3 contested layups with no contact and made the other. The only bad call against Penn appears to be the foul on Darnell with :15 seconds left on Cambridge (he missed both).

Penn had 9 possessions in OT, all of them were drives to the basket, zero jumpers. They made 3 of those, had 1 blocked and got 4 foul calls for 8 FT's. I thought 2 of those 4 fouls on drives were questionable against Brown and 1 was just a bad call.

In summary, in OT and in regulation, the fact is Brown settled for 9 jumpers in their last 18 possessions and Penn drove the ball to the basket on 14 of their last 16 possessions. There were 8 bad/questionable/missed calls during that stretch and 5 of them went against Brown and 3 against Penn.

Anyone else who wants to watch the game from the 5 minute point on in slow motion and come back and argue this analysis, I am all for it.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3467

Reg: 11-23-04
02-03-18 05:46 PM - Post#245863    
    In response to PennFan10

Who said the non-calls were in the last 5 or the OT?

 
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