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Username Post: State of the team?        (Topic#21122)
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 468

Age: 46
Reg: 05-19-16
02-07-18 04:57 PM - Post#246802    

Sitting at 4-15 with no league wins, I'm curious about the state of our guys. Hopefully we'll get a W this weekend. Losing your former coach, losing your best player, and another losing season has got to take a toll on the players and coaches alike.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
Go Green 
Senior
Posts: 399

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
02-11-18 01:37 PM - Post#247447    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball


Seems to me that the state of the team is fine.

Hopefully they get a few more wins by the end of the season!

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 468

Age: 46
Reg: 05-19-16
02-17-18 11:25 AM - Post#248202    
    In response to Go Green

Hopefully we get this one against Brown before we head back in the road.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 94

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
02-17-18 01:26 PM - Post#248224    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Let's face it: The team is poorly coached. We don't have the athletes to compete. That's on McLaughlin. Every sports team, HS, College, or Pro, has to have backup athletes to step up and play if players leave or get hurt. We've had glimmers of freshman hope, but zero consistency game to game. It's McLAUGHlin's job to prepare his team. The results show he hasn't done that. Harry Sheehy has to go. In this article, he said he's happy where the team is right now. Really? You're happy losing? You're happy with no bench strength? You're happy with poor recruiting and poor player development? You're saying McLAUGHlin is doing a great job coaching? Well, what is Sheehy going to say? He has to say that, as he picked him two years ago over much more qualified candidates. McLAUGHlin has proven in fact that he is a poor game coach with his offensive and defensive schemes, his transition game is generally poor, and his substitution patterns (taking hot guys out when they're hot) and not starting Knight regularly is awful. Boudreaux leaving isn't the reason we're losing if McLAUGHlin does his job. Smith getting hurt is not why we are losing. McLAUGHlin has not prepared guys to step up and fill the voids. That's 100% on him. And if Sheehy endorses that poor performance, he should do us all a favor and find another job for him and McLAUGHlin...Link:

http://www.vnews.com/Dartmouth-men-s-baske tball-vs...

 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
02-17-18 06:18 PM - Post#248288    
    In response to hoops123

Yes. Hoping we see a win against Brown tonight. Last night was tough to watch.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3209

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-17-18 06:31 PM - Post#248290    
    In response to GIQUAKER

Whether or not McLaughlin is a deficient coach is still unclear. Last night notwithstanding, I think his team is starting to come together. We'll see if things look better next season. However, totally agree re: Sheedy. Firing Cormier really was a dumb move. I know he was a crusty old bastard, but he clearly knew what he was doing.

 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
02-17-18 06:36 PM - Post#248292    
    In response to Silver Maple

I think that the situation was right for the change. Coach M is a very hard working coach. He needs time to turn around a very difficult situation. I believe he will do that.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 94

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
02-17-18 07:20 PM - Post#248296    
    In response to GIQUAKER

McLAUGHlin has already proven that that his sloganeering "work hard, work smart, and work together" is not a thing on this team. Its not happening. He acts like he's on to some "revolutionary" idea (WORK) that no one else has figured out in the history of college basketball. "we work hard"....Big Deal. So does every other team in college basketball. Slogans do not win games....

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 94

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: State of the team?
02-17-18 09:59 PM - Post#248397    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Nice win tonight. Chris Knight was the reason we won. No one on Brown could stop him. Best thing I've seen out of McLAUGHlin all year was in the last 3 mins, they threw ball to Knight every time and he either scored or was fouled. Think he had 17 in second half. GBG

 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
02-17-18 10:22 PM - Post#248408    
    In response to hoops123

Great win tonight for a hard working coach and a team that never gives up. Tyler with some nice reverse layups and Barry with some great plays. Emory is looking better due to great coaching. Wish the fans could be louder. Go Big Green!

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 94

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
02-18-18 01:02 AM - Post#248433    
    In response to GIQUAKER

Can't have it both ways Quaker. If you believe this nearly non-existent, very occasional "great play" in a couple of games is because of "great coaching", then you are basically endorsing my position. Correspondingly, their poor play (most of the season) must therefore also be due to "poor coaching". 2-8 in the Ivy League (6 wins and 17 losses overall with a D3 win in there) is clearly a direct result of poor coaching. If this team was a business and McLAUGHlin was the "team CEO" and his job is to win games, after two years at the helm, he is not doing that. He is failing at the "winning games" part. In business, people who don't do their jobs get fired. In sports too most of the time. So how long should we say CEO/Head Coach McLAUGHlin should be allowed to have losing seasons? If you were a shareholder of a company where the CEO was failing and you were losing money as a result of the CEO/company performance, would you be blindly cheering him/her on via social media? Don't think so. I want the Dartmouth program to be successful. I have participated/supported it for many, many years. WE ARE HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. I hope I'm wrong...Yet....GBG

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
State of the team?
02-18-18 10:27 AM - Post#248451    
    In response to hoops123

Who were the more qualified candidates?

My take on this all along was that firing Cormier hurt Dartmouth reputationally in the coaching community and made it harder for them to then find a head coach who had realistic prospects for other head coaching jobs. They then compounded the lack in experience at the head spot by bringing in a staff with no division one experience. Nothing wrong with hiring the right experienced head coach, but you want to pair them with an old hand or two among the assistants.

All that said, once you go the route Dartmouth has gone, you have to play it out. You can’t put a guy in an impossible situation and then fire him before he has a chance to address it. McLaughlin is playing with what is essentially his first recruiting class. The lack of depth isn’t his fault — it takes more than one class to build it up.

The team is better this year than last. The improvement is fairly incremental, but it is there. Of course, they are well behind where they were the prior 3 years with Cormier, but I don’t see how that can be a surprise— it is basically what Dartmouth signed up for when they made the coaching change.

Edited by SomeGuy on 02-18-18 10:28 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
hoops123 
Freshman
Posts: 94

Age: 47
Reg: 12-14-16
Re: State of the team?
02-18-18 11:51 AM - Post#248468    
    In response to SomeGuy

I agree with much of your post Someguy. Tough situation. The issue is his in game coaching is poor, and our record has been poor since he got here. Not convinced McLAUGHlin personally has improved since last year/grown as a coach. The record is worse than last year. His assistants, save one very good one, are very inexperienced. The question is, how long does he get to "practice" head coaching if his record continues to be poor? Sheehy, a D3 athletic director masquerading as a D1 AD, should be given his walking papers, but if not, I imagine knowing his exceptionally large ego that he will not do anything with McLAUGHlin for several years. If he did, the poor hire reflects on him directly. Therefore sadly, even if McLAUGHlin's/Dartmouth losing continues, I think we're stuck with him for a while. My friend in the athletic dept told me that of the final 5, McLAUGHlin had the least amount of D1 experience. I've seen the list. AD of Northeastern Peter Roby (former Dartmouth basketball player) told Sheehy to hire McLAUGHlin. He did. And he was the most "affordable" (remember Dartmouth AD "says" he values winning but, only so much.....). GBG

 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
Re: State of the team?
02-18-18 12:13 PM - Post#248475    
    In response to hoops123

The previous coach was an excellent coach. But in his first two years at Dartmouth (2nd time) he had a record of 5-23 and 5-25 respectively. Both years IVY record was 1-13. It's not an easy job!

As an aside how much of the frustration (which I completely understand) should really be aimed at Ivy League approach to athletics in general. We have kids "graduating early" and going to other programs and playing significant minutes. Just watched one from Cornell play well a few weeks ago. One advantage of the Ivy League was having kids who stayed 4 years. And the Ivy response to this and other issues is to have a tournament. At least it's in the Palestra. But really a tournament??? So we can have the best team Harvard or Penn get beaten by a less qualified team. Are we shooting for the play in game to get an NCAA win?

There are some really great coaches in the Ivy League who are trying to succeed with some real obstacles. Let's support them.

Edited by GIQUAKER on 02-18-18 12:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3209

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-18-18 12:21 PM - Post#248476    
    In response to GIQUAKER

I would personally be in favor of allowing players to play for one year of grad school.

 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
02-18-18 12:32 PM - Post#248478    
    In response to Silver Maple

I think that's a great suggestion.

My point is that we need to look at the bigger picture. I don't think the Ivy League's approach is good. I think we put the athletes and the coaches in a tough position. Why shouldn't we be able to compete with Duke or Stanford? Why does Duke get to beat us up (Penn, Yale, Harvard) at their home and not return to our gyms?

I don't ever expect the Ivy's to change so in the meantime I will go to the games and support the teams. My son and I saw a great lacrosse game against Canisius and then saw the men's basketball game against Brown.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3209

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-18-18 02:00 PM - Post#248490    
    In response to GIQUAKER

Well, let’s not get too excited here. In order for us to compete with Duke and Stanford, we would have to make a lot of the same compromises that those institutions have. I don’t think very many of us would be in favor of that.

 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
02-18-18 08:52 PM - Post#248540    
    In response to Silver Maple

What compromises? Stanford is the best undergraduate program in the country. In terms of academics and research, the Big Ten may be the best academic athletic conference in the country. The northeastern bias towards small elite liberal arts schools is a skewed view of higher education

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 468

Age: 46
Reg: 05-19-16
02-18-18 11:00 PM - Post#248551    
    In response to GIQUAKER

There is a commitment to basketball that Princeton, Penn, Harvard, and Harvard have that I haven't seen in Dartmouth. From facilities to social media presence it's very evident we're not on par with the rest of the Ivy forget other conferences. That's ok. We should not expect to be uber competitive. Mitola under Cormier or Boudreaux under McLaughlin top talent that truly wants to play at the highest level will get the Ivy education and go to places like Xavier. There is an issue that goes deeper than who's coaching the team. There is an institutional lack of commitment. The decision makers could have kept Cormier or hired a coach with a bigger D1 resume for more money, but that didn't happen. That's ok, it is what it is. It's best to adjust expectations accordingly. Silver Maple made a great point. How much are Alums willing to compromise to compete at a Stanford Level. Stanford offers scholarships. Ivy doesn't. The Pac 12 spends almost $8 Million per team that almost 8 times what the Ivy spends. All Ivy combined = Stanford budget.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
GIQUAKER 
Junior
Posts: 208

Reg: 02-27-06
02-18-18 11:30 PM - Post#248558    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

I agree that the Ivy's will never change and I accept that. I would love to see the Ivys be more competitive. I don't believe that it would be at a great cost (for basketball) or would hurt academics. For now I go to the games with friends and family and have a great time. Not expecting any change.

 
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