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Username Post: Let's talk about how deep this team really is        (Topic#21150)
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
02-12-18 04:27 PM - Post#247563    
    In response to Silver Maple

My only point is that Mike’s sources thought Djuricic was the best recruit in the league this year, and that Scott and Simmons were projects. And to me the difference on court so far has not been that evident.

So I’m not at all ready to bury anyone. Simmons will only get more minutes next year if he can muscle away minutes from very established guys. However, Scott should at least be in the wing conversation with Foreman and Wood graduating, but a bunch of others will be as well.



 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
02-12-18 04:34 PM - Post#247565    
    In response to Silver Maple

I agree. That wasn't my comparison.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3777

Reg: 11-22-04
02-12-18 04:37 PM - Post#247566    
    In response to PennFan10

I love Jarrod.

It's a terrible sign when you can't unseat a guy with a 99 ORAT.

It's an even terribler sign when you can't unseat a guy who had problems with his seat - Steve decided he'd rather play Matt and other guards than let Jarrod play.



 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
02-12-18 04:39 PM - Post#247567    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Nice play on words. Well done.

I am pretty sure Max plays not because of his ORat, but because of his defense, among other things.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3236

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-12-18 04:43 PM - Post#247570    
    In response to PennFan10

The list of players who will be realistically competing for Foreman's and Wood's minutes will be long. I make it as (roughly in class order):

Silpe
Donahue
Jerome
Kuba
Goodman
Scott
Williams


 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3777

Reg: 11-22-04
02-12-18 04:47 PM - Post#247572    
    In response to PennFan10

Yeah listen, Max is who he is.

But even when Max wasn't capable of playing, Steve decided not to play Jarrod. As you guys are so fond of telling me about Steve Jobs, er Donahue, this speaks volumes as to Steve's opinion of Jarrod.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
02-12-18 05:00 PM - Post#247573    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Agree with that.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1113

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-12-18 05:27 PM - Post#247574    
    In response to PennFan10

Penn pundits.

From an outsider's perspective, have you considered that maybe Coach Donahue plays Max out of necessity. Last year, Matt Howard was your rebounding forward, grabbing about as many boards as Brodeur. Beyond Betley, it appears that most of the rebounds are distributed among guards. Forcing Betley to guard a 4 and rebound would likely impact his offensive upside and could land him in foul trouble. Thus, it seems to me that inserting Max and playing him 30 minutes is by necessity.

If this year's freshmen or the incoming class provides a big 3 or even a small 4, then there are other options.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
02-12-18 05:35 PM - Post#247575    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

That may have been true initially though I am pretty sure SD thinks Max is one of his 5 best players at this point.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7786

Reg: 12-07-04
02-12-18 05:57 PM - Post#247576    
    In response to PennFan10

The first impression I got from watching Jarrod at the scrimmage was one of athletic ability, but I wondered if the motivation was there. It seems pretty silly to evaluate a Freshman just on the way he carries himself and his expressions, but I just didn't see that "spark". It's definitely not a fair evaluation, but it stuck with me and months later, based on the little growth we've seen, I'm still left wondering. The fact that he is not seeing minutes says a lot and it's obvious that something isn't clicking yet.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-12-18 06:14 PM - Post#247580    
    In response to SomeGuy

I wrote this in March...

  • Quote:
From what I'm hearing, the entering class is:
Tier I: Djuricic, Much
Tier II: Cambridge, Faulds, Haskett, Williams, Simmons, Desrosiers, Schweiger, Atkinson, Swain, Yess
Tier III: DeWolf, Newman, Hanson, Stefanini, Knight, Scott, Barnes, Gabiddon



From March on, the only ones that really changed were Cambridge, Atkinson and Knight - heard great things about all three that I shared on here.

But if you look at that March list in terms of win share rank:

Tier I: 5, 6
Tier II: 1, 2, 3, 4, 10, 13, 16, 21, 34, DNP
Tier III: 7, 11, 12, 17, 18, 23, DNP, Decommitted

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
02-12-18 06:44 PM - Post#247582    
    In response to mrjames

I don't think putting Djuricic, and Much for that matter, on the Tier 1 level with Cambridge is remotely reasonable. Maybe Cambridge has his own Tier 0?

After him I think Atkinson, Knight and Much are full time players. The rest are role players at this point and not comparable to the others in my view.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1113

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
02-12-18 07:48 PM - Post#247585    
    In response to PennFan10

Absolutely!

But I look at lineups as puzzle pieces. Max is a strong rebounder and fills the lane - something Penn would be lacking without him. Penn is clearly better with him in the rotation and even starting. Obviously, Max has replaced Matt Howard. Whereas Matt Howard was more creative with the ball, Max can post up and has developed into a nice distributor. A win win for Penn.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
02-12-18 08:49 PM - Post#247591    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Saturday's game notwithstanding, I think Max has become one of the better defenders in the league as well.

 
91Quake 
Masters Student
Posts: 627

Reg: 11-22-04
02-12-18 10:04 PM - Post#247605    
    In response to PennFan10

Agreed. And it may be just a drop early to declare anyone but Cambridge a star recruit. And that is very normal.

And let's be fair to Simmons. Just because everything has not clicked should not be equated with a lack of effort/desire/whatever. You are jumping to conclusions that are not fair or substantiated.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3236

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-12-18 10:37 PM - Post#247613    
    In response to 91Quake

C/PF players often take awhile to develop. Brodeur is an anomaly. Let's see how Simmons looks next hear. Right now he's on the steep part of the learning curve.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
02-13-18 12:45 AM - Post#247635    
    In response to Quakers03

I think the depth argument and the references to Simmons not playing are making a little too much of how we chose to match our recent opponents. Harvard played small against us. So while Max was sick and Lewis was killing us, the most logical response was AJ on Lewis and play small at the 4. Simmons isn’t a physical match for Towns or Bassey. We’ll probably see him back in the rotation against Columbia, because they play more 2 bigs at a time.

 
Penndemonium 
Masters Student
Posts: 746

Reg: 11-29-04
02-13-18 12:59 AM - Post#247636    
    In response to 91Quake

  • 91Quake Said:
Agreed. And it may be just a drop early to declare anyone but Cambridge a star recruit. And that is very normal.

And let's be fair to Simmons. Just because everything has not clicked should not be equated with a lack of effort/desire/whatever. You are jumping to conclusions that are not fair or substantiated.



I think it's a bit of semantics. I think the post was commenting on the fact that Simmons doesn't have a full time motor and has negative body language. That gets interpreted as an issue of effort/desire. I think that can be a misunderstanding - Simmons may care as much as any other player, but doesn't know how to express that in behaviors that will reinforce and raise his game. The behaviors that people are looking for are confidence, resilience, ability to energize his team-mates, and non-stop activity. When Simmons or players he is guarding are off the ball, he is not doing all of the things that make a player great. He is not improving his positioning at all times. He is not making opponents chase or respond to his physical pressure. He is not clearing space for a potential rebound or to set a great screen.

When he does have the ball or when he is guarding the player with the ball, he is much more attentive and looks better.


 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7786

Reg: 12-07-04
02-13-18 01:09 AM - Post#247638    
    In response to Penndemonium

What he said. Negative body language is a good way to describe what I was seeing at that first scrimmage. Again, some players just hold themselves in a quiet way and then explode, so I still hold out hope. We've had plenty of players who couldn't stay on the court early in their careers because of silly fouls/mistakes (some even on the current roster) and many overcame it and went onto productive careers. Others, however, did not.

 
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