palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 01:22 PM - Post#247680
In response to Jeff2sf
If you think that makes me a troll like you, you have problems. I don't go personally attacking people for no reason and in conversations I am not participating in. Again, STOP IT. I'm not the only one to tell you this, as you know. Leave it alone and make conversation....but stop trolling.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 01:35 PM - Post#247684
In response to palestra38
Reason or not, the attacks should stop.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-13-18 01:44 PM - Post#247687
In response to 10Q
if it helps you sleep at night to know that you regularly get mixed up in arguments where you're on the wrong side of data and call people names on the regular (are you really using a who started it defense?), then i wish you all the best bro.
But you regularly, repeatedly ignore data that doesn't fit your view of things. I'm not the only one who notices this.
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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02-13-18 01:47 PM - Post#247688
In response to palestra38
stop feeding him. He only shows up here after a penn loss.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-13-18 01:50 PM - Post#247689
In response to yoyo
We were on a break!
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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02-13-18 01:53 PM - Post#247690
In response to yoyo
Folks, this team needed incredible luck to go 14-0. If this is the most disappointing Ivy loss of the year, we're (by which I mean the Penn we's  ) all going to be ecstatic at the end of the season.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 365
Reg: 03-25-09
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02-13-18 01:56 PM - Post#247692
In response to dperry
I would doubt everybody will.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-13-18 02:02 PM - Post#247694
In response to Jeff2sf
Funny, but I wonder how many folks here got that reference.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4360
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 02:18 PM - Post#247697
In response to palestra38
Last night during the ND/NC game they specifically commented on how hard it was on NC having to play 3 games in 5 days. They discussed the wear and tear on the body and showed pictures of the ice baths NC has their kids take after the games to help their muscles recover (an incredible facility by the way). At any rate, the impact of the Tues, Fri, Sat grind, compounded by the travel, that the kids from both Penn and Princeton went through last week was real. It doesn't mean that both had to struggle the way they did, but it certainly can't be dismissed as a non factor.
NC did win the game handily last night but ND has been battling injuries to its best players and couldn't stay with them for 40 minutes.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-13-18 02:24 PM - Post#247701
In response to AsiaSunset
Asia's post is the reason I'm not interested in Steve's perspective (just this one time!). Humans/players whoever overestimate things like this all the time. The thing is, 1 point isn't nothing. 2 points is also... not nothing. But when a person feels something like that, they have a tendency to over-ascribe the impact. And actually, I believe there's a double whammy going on:
1. Person thinks the impact is huge.
2. Even if person thinks the impact is only "medium" they're likely to ascribe that to being like 4-6 points worth of impact when actually a medium impact is really 2-3 points (or whatever).
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 02:24 PM - Post#247702
In response to AsiaSunset
Three in 5 is worse than 2 in 2.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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02-13-18 02:36 PM - Post#247706
In response to AsiaSunset
And UNC had it way, way easy compared to Penn's 5 in 8 days. 2 of UNC's games were 30 minutes or less from campus, and presumably they flew to South Bend (or Chicago) instead of going on a very, very long round trip via bus.
Last night during the ND/NC game they specifically commented on how hard it was on NC having to play 3 games in 5 days. They discussed the wear and tear on the body and showed pictures of the ice baths NC has their kids take after the games to help their muscles recover (an incredible facility by the way). At any rate, the impact of the Tues, Fri, Sat grind, compounded by the travel, that the kids from both Penn and Princeton went through last week was real. It doesn't mean that both had to struggle the way they did, but it certainly can't be dismissed as a non factor.
NC did win the game handily last night but ND has been battling injuries to its best players and couldn't stay with them for 40 minutes.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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02-13-18 02:52 PM - Post#247709
In response to mrjames
When our standard to change our priors is to have something definitively, 100% proven wrong, we make Reverend Bayes cry.
But I agree that Steve’s input would be interesting here.
I’ve been a little surprised that some of the key takeaways from that game were the reffing was bad and scheduling was unfair. There are some real things to work on both for Harvard and for Penn in advance of the rematch that I believe make the legs/ref issues trivial by comparison. The team that cleans up those former issues better is the one better positioned to win the rematch.
I call BS on this. Show me where anyone said the refs were bad? I pointed out a 22-9 disparity in Free Throws which I believe is indisputable fact and offered no commentary other than to say it didn’t impact the result.
As far as the Travel and timing we know it had an impact on Max due to his documented issues. Whether that had any affect on LEWIS taking 14 shots and making 10 I don’t know but I will take the under on either of those in the rematch. I also think Towns will play better next time as well. The next game is unlikely to resemble the first for a number of reasons from strategy to circumstances.
Harvard was the better team Saturday which doesn’t prove they are better overall. They may be and that’s why the adjustments for next weeks rematch will carry a lot of intrigue.
You highlight the lob pass to Lewis. That’s a very difficult pass to execute and kudos to H for doing it repeatedly. Penn also got caught in some rotations as a result of that strategy that led to defensive lapses and easy buckets. I expect that to get cleaned up. If Aiken plays I doubt Lewis takes 14 shots and then I doubt Aiken shoots 71%. If he does we lose anyway.
We have some guys not practicing much in order to be ready for games so recovery times for injured players would seem to have an inordinate affect on games when you play so many in a short time frame, so the impact on travel and timing would be amplified. None of those factors will be in play next week.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4360
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 02:54 PM - Post#247710
In response to 10Q
Well of course Penn Nation is correct. We not only played the same 3 in 5 as NC did (ours were all away games as well), but when you consider the previous back to back the weekend before Princeton, it was 5 games in 8 days.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 03:58 PM - Post#247720
In response to PennFan10
On the reffing point - I spend more time around the games looking at twitter than these boards, and there was definitely carping on there about having to go up against Harvard and the refs. On here, I saw some complaining about calls, but not really a wholesale blaming of the loss on the refs. I blend both into my impression of what fans perceive.
The biggest thing on the other side is that Penn exposed Harvard's on ball defense in a way I haven't seen. To the extent there are Saturday legs, I think that will be something to watch and see if Penn can do again. Rarely do guys like Bassey and Juzang get beat off the dribble.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-13-18 04:12 PM - Post#247722
In response to AsiaSunset
All I'm saying is that back to backs, generally speaking, are not a big deal.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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Inquirer Story on Tough Road Trip
02-13-18 04:19 PM - Post#247723
In response to AsiaSunset
With the previous back to back and then Princeton it was 5 in 12 days (not 5 in 8). 4 games at home and 1 at Princeton. Every Ivy weekend is 4 in 9 days. With this weekend's games, it became 7 in 16 days (usually 6 in 16) or 5 in 9 (usually 4 in 9) for Penn.
None of this compares to most major conference tourney's. Didn't Syracuse win 4 or 5 games in as many days one year? Every game against a well rested opponent?
Anyway, Harvard's defensive intensity tends to abate in the second half because the guards wear down without Bryce. That seems to have happened Saturday and I note that Harvard's 3 starting guards played 35, 37 and 39 minutes the night before. Wood and Betley started driving and hitting shots in the second half as well. Either they weren't tired, OR Harvard's guards were, OR, it was just the way it worked out. That's how Penn took a 16 point deficit down to the final margin of 9.
Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 02-13-18 04:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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Inquirer Story on Tough Road Trip
02-13-18 04:33 PM - Post#247730
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Friday Feb 2nd v Brown
Sat Feb 3 v Yale
Tues Feb 6 @P
Friday Feb 9 @D
Sat Feb 10 @ H
Feb 2-Feb 10 = 8 days
2 at home, 3 on the road.
Edited by PennFan10 on 02-13-18 04:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Inquirer Story on Tough Road Trip
02-13-18 04:37 PM - Post#247733
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
None of this compares to most major conference tourney's. Didn't Syracuse win 4 or 5 games in as many days one year? Every game against a well rested opponent?
Entirely different scenario, of course, since those other teams earned the byes and extra rest.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-13-18 04:39 PM - Post#247734
In response to PennFan10
i think if you count out the days (as I do on my hand, cus ANALYTICS!) you get 9 days. and more technically it's 8 days and 2 hours if you don't count Feb 2 until the 7p.m. tipoff.
But there's no way to get to 11 days unless you use Harvard grade inflation.
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