MangyOne
Freshman
Posts: 96
Loc: Rochester, NY Metro Area
Reg: 12-28-09
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02-15-18 02:06 PM - Post#247929
Just for grins and giggles, now that the Bison have clinched the #1 seed in the PL tournament, what are your predictions for the rest of the seedings as of today. I know a lot can still happen with three games remaining and a there are a lot of close bunched teams below us, but what do you think will happen. It has been an unusual season so far - Navy has swept Lehigh, but Colgate has swept Navy. Heck, Lafayette has swept Colgate, so who knows what will happen. Here is the way I see the seedings shaking out (not necessarily the way I want it to be), for what it is worth:
1 - Bucknell
2 - Colgate
3 - Lehigh
4 - Navy
5 - Boston U.
6 - Lafayette
7 - Holy Cross
8 - Army
9 - Loyola
10 - American
Right now I fear Colgate and Lehigh, and hope neither drops to #4 to become a Bison potential foe in the semis (assuming we get by the #8/#9 winner). I would rather see either one in the finals. Another reason I feel the Bison cannot let up down the stretch and must beat Navy next week. Whatever happens, I think this years tournament will be filled with a lot of interesting and exciting games.
Curious as to what the rest of you think will be the seedings. Let's see who has the best ESP right now.
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BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
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02-15-18 05:22 PM - Post#247935
In response to MangyOne
Lehigh is not going to come out on top in almost any tiebreaker scenario with Navy. That doesn’t help the cause for getting Lehigh up to the 3.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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02-15-18 07:32 PM - Post#247950
In response to BUFan
True, Navy swept Lehigh, so Mountain Hawks would have to finish a game ahead of the Mids. However, looking at remaining matchups, it’s not hard to imagine Lehigh winning out and Navy losing two.
1. BUCKNELL (13-2) @Holy Cross, Navy, @American
2. COLGATE (9-6) @Loyola, Army, Holy Cross
3. NAVY (9-6) @Boston, @Bucknell, Loyola
4. BOSTON U (8-7) Navy, Lafayette, @Army
5. LEHIGH (8-7) Army, @Loyola, Lafayette
6. HOLY CROSS (7-8) Bucknell, American, @Colgate
7. ARMY (6-9) @Lehigh, @Colgate, Boston
7. LAFAYETTE (6-9) American, @Boston, @Lehigh
7. LOYOLA (6-9) Colgate, Lehigh, @Navy
10. AMERICAN (3-12) @Lafayette, @Holy Cross, Bucknell
I think I have the tiebreakers through 5th correct. Colgate swept Navy; Lehigh and Boston University split against each other and against Bucknell and against Colgate, but Boston University has a win against Navy and Lehigh was swept by Navy.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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02-15-18 07:53 PM - Post#247951
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
1. Bucknell
2. Colgate
3. Navy
4. Boston
5. Lehigh
6. Lafayette
7. Holy Cross
8. Army
9. Loyola
10. American
I'm not that impressed with Lehigh's win streak. If not for Mike Brennan's temper tantrum, they probably lose to American. If I'm wrong, they obviously finish a lot higher. Lafayette is the sleeper in all this. I think they'll beat Lehigh in the last game.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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Seedings Predictions
02-18-18 05:39 PM - Post#248515
In response to jkrun80
New Seeding After Feb 17/18 Games
1. BUCKNELL (14-2) Navy, @American
2. COLGATE (10-6) Army, Holy Cross
3. NAVY (10-6) @Bucknell, Loyola
4. LEHIGH (9-7) @Loyola, Lafayette
5. BOSTON U (8-8) Lafayette, @Army
6. LAFAYETTE (7-9) @Boston, @Lehigh
7. HOLY CROSS (7-9) American, @Colgate
8. LOYOLA (6-10) Lehigh, @Navy
9. ARMY (6-10) @Colgate, Boston
10. AMERICAN (3-13) @Holy Cross, Bucknell
--Colgate swept Navy.
--Lafayette and Holy Cross split, but Lafayette swept Colgate and Holy Cross has a loss to Colgate
--Army and Loyola split and have same number of wins vs Colgate, Navy and Lehigh. Loyola has a win over Boston but Army doesn't. However, one of the two teams each has a remaining unplayed game against Colgate, Navy, Lehigh and Boston, so the tie-breaker could change.
Not applicable right now, but FYI: Navy swept Lehigh
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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Seedings Predictions
02-18-18 09:08 PM - Post#248543
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
It is looking like there is a very good shot that Lehigh will be in the 4-5 position, destined for a semi-final game with the Bison. LU wins any tiebreaker with LC or HC even if it loses its last two games, so there is no way it falls below 5th. And it loses to Navy in a two-way tie and to both Colgate and Navy in a three-way tie. I think for LU to not finish 4-5, one of these things must happen:
1. LU wins its last two games, while Navy and/or Colgate loses its last two. That would mean CU must lose two home games against teams below it in the standings OR that Navy must lose at Bucknell and then at home to Loyola.
2. LU wins its last two games, while Colgate loses one game and Navy wins both games. In that case, it is a two-way tie with Colgate - and in that tiebreaker, LU prevails. That scenario is likely more realistic than #1, but it requires a Bison loss to Navy.
3. LU wins one of its last two games, while Navy wins one or more games and CU is swept. That produces a two-way tie between LU and CU.
Btw, should Boston somehow manage to tie Lehigh for the 4-5 spot, the game would be played in Boston. At this point, with Boston in freefall, that doesn't seem likely.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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02-18-18 09:48 PM - Post#248547
In response to Bison137
I know there is some wringing of hands over playing Lehigh in the semis, but what does it matter? We need to beat them if and whenever we play them. Losing to Lehigh or anyone else in the tournament will be a huge disappointment.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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02-18-18 11:11 PM - Post#248554
In response to jkrun80
I think most #1 seeds in any league are clear cut to beat more than half league members. Even though I believe Bucknell is definitely the best team and can be anyone in the PL tourney, I also can see them losing to almost anyone. If Bucknell plays to their capabilities, they cannot lose...just have to do it. And I know they have so much firepower, but they have had more than a few poor shooting games. I hope they are hot in the tourney.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-18-18 11:38 PM - Post#248560
In response to jkrun80
I know there is some wringing of hands over playing Lehigh in the semis, but what does it matter? We need to beat them if and whenever we play them. Losing to Lehigh or anyone else in the tournament will be a huge disappointment.
Lehigh is a team that is hitting almost 47% of its threes in 16 PL games - and over 51% on threes in its last eight PL games. It is a team that has some major flaws but which is capable of beating anyone due its great 3-point shooting. If Bucknell brings its A game, I think they will normally beat any PL opponent. But LU might be the exception if they hit something like 17-30 on threes, which they are more than capable of doing.
Yes, the Bison might have to meet them at some point. But I would rather wait to play them in the finals and hope they have a bad game and get knocked off prior to that.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-19-18 01:02 AM - Post#248563
In response to Bison137
Based on play down the stretch, there are 3 teams i’d rather not play, LU, CU, and HC. It’s highly unlikely we can avoid them all, but we have beaten Cu and HC two times already this year and I do not want to have to beat either one of them a third time in order to dance. The most recent case of a team losing in the PL tourney to a team they had beaten twice during the season was LU in 2017. The fact that we are 1-1 vs LU this year makes me feel a little better about playing them than either of the other two. I have to believe Colgate wants us so badly in the tournament that they can taste it, and given the first two games i’m not certain we beat them in a third. Further, yesterday’s loss by HC tells them that they can play with anybody in the league. There is no doubt in my mind that all three of these teams believe they can beat us. At our best, nobody in this league this year should beat us, but three games in March, the saving grace for many schools in one bid leagues, is cruel and unusual punishment for teams that dominate those leagues during the season.
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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02-19-18 12:49 PM - Post#248588
In response to bison63
HC would have a much better chance in the Big East tournament.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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02-19-18 02:00 PM - Post#248609
In response to bison63
Based on play down the stretch, there are 3 teams i’d rather not play, LU, CU, and HC. It’s highly unlikely we can avoid them all, but we have beaten Cu and HC two times already this year and I do not want to have to beat either one of them a third time in order to dance. The most recent case of a team losing in the PL tourney to a team they had beaten twice during the season was LU in 2017. The fact that we are 1-1 vs LU this year makes me feel a little better about playing them than either of the other two. I have to believe Colgate wants us so badly in the tournament that they can taste it, and given the first two games i’m not certain we beat them in a third. Further, yesterday’s loss by HC tells them that they can play with anybody in the league. There is no doubt in my mind that all three of these teams believe they can beat us. At our best, nobody in this league this year should beat us, but three games in March, the saving grace for many schools in one bid leagues, is cruel and unusual punishment for teams that dominate those leagues during the season.
I'd rather not play anybody. No, that's not true. I'm just kidding.
When it comes to the PL Tournament, you just have to play everybody and anybody . . . and JUST WIN! It's plain and simple.
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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JimK_LU72
Freshman
Posts: 41
Loc: Allentown
Reg: 02-03-18
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02-19-18 03:57 PM - Post#248623
In response to Bison89
For my two cents, Lafayette is the dark horse this year. Everybody thought Franny was done, but he and his staff have done a wonderful job bringing the Leopards along.
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BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
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02-19-18 04:54 PM - Post#248634
In response to JimK_LU72
I’m not as worried about HC coming into Sojka. Lafayette is more concerning as a first round opponent.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-19-18 05:22 PM - Post#248641
In response to BUFan
I’m not as worried about HC coming into Sojka. Lafayette is more concerning as a first round opponent.
Agree. When you have a better team, the opponents to fear are the ones capable of throwing in a lot of threes. LC can do that. HC doesn't shoot them well at all (29% in PL play, compared to LC's 40%).
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-19-18 05:51 PM - Post#248646
In response to Bison137
It will be interesting to see who is voted COY this year. I don't think ND has earned it, with the Bison not doing any better than expected. Only two teams have overachieved: Colgate - who was picked for 5th in the official poll - and Lafayette - who was picked for last.
Right now I would vote for O'Hanlon, but a good finish by Colgate and a poor one for LC could move my vote to Langel.
- - - - -
This is what the poll looked like btw:
2017-18 Patriot League Men’s Basketball Preseason Poll
Bucknell, 162 (18 first-place votes)
Boston University, 141 (2)
Navy, 120
Lehigh, 108
Colgate, 104
Loyola Maryland 78
Army West Point, 66
Holy Cross, 48
American, 39
Lafayette, 27
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HoleinOne
Masters Student
Posts: 596
Loc: Bluffton, SC
Reg: 02-15-09
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02-19-18 07:06 PM - Post#248658
In response to Bison137
Agree but fear the young bigs Leigh has more than their ability to shoot 3's. In the last game, they beat up the Bison pretty good under the basket. Just got cold in 2nd half or likely would have won. Good recruiting by the Doctor the past 2 years.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-19-18 08:20 PM - Post#248666
In response to HoleinOne
The only big Lehigh has who plays near the basket is freshman James Karnik, who definitely had a good game vs the Bison. Their only other player taller than 6-5 is Pat Andree, who offensively is a SG in a PF's body. He plays out by the arc most of the time, shooting threes. He has attempted 79 twos this year vs 154 threes. Hitting 45% on the threes - and 52% in PL play.
Fwiw, Lehigh ranks 7th in the league in defensive rebounding and 7th in the league in offensive rebounding. Also 9th in the league in blocks and 7th in steals. Overall they are 9th in defense - but 1st in offense due mostly to their incredible shooting on threes. They are dead last in 2-point FG pct.
One thing that won't happen this year is for Foulland to beat them, as he did in the championship game last year. In that game, Reed assumed - incorrectly - that Kempton didn't need any help on Nana. Nana ended up shooting 8-12 against him. In both games this year, LU has doubled Nana every time he touches the ball, daring the rest of the Bison to beat them. In that case, it comes down to a few other players needing to produce some offense.
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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02-20-18 12:17 AM - Post#248676
In response to Bison137
Which shouldn’t be a problem given the array af weapons. But Zack can’t continue to shoot 3-15. With three players so high on the career scoring list and a fourth, Kimbal, who will find his way up there as well, there just isn’t anyway offense should be a problem. But we’ve seen it be an issue before, so, play good defense and hit some shots.
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
Posts: 1976
Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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02-21-18 08:13 AM - Post#248760
In response to MrPhillie
Play anyone, beat everyone. Seeding talk isn’t worth our time since we are going to have to play someone who’s defeated us or is not or both.
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DoCtoR62
Masters Student
Posts: 463
Reg: 05-18-08
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02-21-18 11:27 AM - Post#248781
In response to HuskyColonial
Play anyone, beat everyone. Seeding talk isn’t worth our time since we are going to have to play someone who’s defeated us or is not or both.
Other than the education Bison137 provides on a daily basis, much of what is on this board isn't worth our time. That doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable and doesn't serve a purpose for those of us root for the Bison.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-21-18 12:33 PM - Post#248791
In response to DoCtoR62
Right on Doc! It’s all just talk! Truthfully, I don’ t want to play anyone. We won the league, why do we have to win it again? Only games that count are the 3 in March!
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Bucknellbisonfan21
Masters Student
Posts: 548
Loc: Bloomsburg
Reg: 11-12-15
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02-21-18 12:49 PM - Post#248792
In response to HuskyColonial
Bucknell plays against Army, Navy, Holy Cross, Lehigh and Lafayette pretty regularly in the tournament so I wouldn't mind seeing some different teams.
They haven't played American since the 2006 tournament, Colgate since 2008 and have yet to play against Boston and Loyola.
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atlantabison
PhD Student
Posts: 1835
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Reg: 01-25-06
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02-21-18 12:49 PM - Post#248793
In response to bison63
Right on Doc! It’s all just talk! Truthfully, I don’ t want to play anyone. We won the league, why do we have to win it again? Only games that count are the 3 in March!
Come on dream big the 9 in March.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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02-21-18 02:50 PM - Post#248797
In response to atlantabison
Right! If we can avoid that 10th loss, we will be National Champions!
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BisonFan4
Junior
Posts: 211
Age: 45
Reg: 12-30-16
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02-21-18 03:07 PM - Post#248798
In response to bison63
That's the spirit! 😂
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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02-21-18 04:30 PM - Post#248802
In response to bison63
Right! If we can avoid that 10th loss, we will be National Champions!
I am an EAGLES' fan. So, I know that miracles can happen. 
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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02-21-18 06:47 PM - Post#248823
In response to Bison89
May as well dream big! But there are a few good teams out there we’d have to beat. Watched a familiar team, West Virginia, last nite and they looked pretty darn good at Baylor. But if Bucknell can’t win it all, I’ll root for Villanova.
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Bison89
Professor
Posts: 5370
Loc: Philadelphia
Reg: 11-14-07
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02-21-18 08:58 PM - Post#248846
In response to MrPhillie
But if Bucknell can’t win it all, I’ll root for Villanova.
Phillie, like you, I've been a Nova fan for a long time. I think that my first Nova game was around 1981 or 82. So, when the Bison aren't playing . . .
| New season, new team, new dream . . . |
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BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
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Seedings Predictions
02-21-18 10:10 PM - Post#248851
In response to HuskyColonial
Looking at the standings, I THINK Colgate just clinched the 2 seed, as they would win a potential tiebreaker over Navy. (See edit below)
I also THINK the 8/9 are locked in as Loyola and Army. While they could flip flop between 8 and 9, we will be playing one of them a week from tonight. This is based off my understanding that Lafayette would have the tiebreaker over Loyola, Army (or a 3 way tie) even if Lafayette loses Saturday. This is because Laf, Loyola, and Army all split against each other. It would thus go to performance against 1st place Bucknell. As all got swept by Bucknell, it goes to performance against 2nd place Colgate. Lafayette swept Colgate which would give them the nod if my understanding is correct.
The most intriguing development for Saturday will be how 3-5 shake out. Lehigh looks likely to be in the 4-5 but could go to 3 if Navy loses and Lehigh wins. BU will be in the 4-5 game, but I think they would host it if they win and Lehigh loses.l by virtue of a better record against 3rd place Navy as all prior tiebreakers would not resolve it.
Lastly, I think HC and Lafayette could still flip between 6 and 7.
EDIT - I think Colgate has not officially clinched the 2. Lehigh could actually get the 2 if Colgate loses, Lehigh wins, and Navy loses. Lehigh and Colgate split so Lehigh’s win over Bucknell would give them the edge. However, if Navy wins and it is a 3 way tie with Gate, Navy, and Lehigh, Gate would still get the 2, as they had the best record (3-1) against the tied teams. This is confusing 
Edited by BUFan on 02-21-18 10:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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02-21-18 10:28 PM - Post#248854
In response to BUFan
New Seeding After Feb 21 Games
1. BUCKNELL (15-2) @American
2. COLGATE (11-6) Holy Cross
3. NAVY (10-7) Loyola
4. LEHIGH (10-7) Lafayette
5. BOSTON U (9-8) @Army
6. HOLY CROSS (8-9) @Colgate
7. LAFAYETTE (7-10) @Lehigh
8. LOYOLA (6-11) @Navy
9. ARMY (6-11) Boston
10. AMERICAN (3-14) Bucknell
--Navy swept Lehigh
--Army and Loyola split and have same number of wins vs Colgate, Navy and Lehigh. Loyola has a win over Boston but Army doesn't. (Army has another shot at Boston and Loyola has another shot at Navy.)
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bison75
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-26-06
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02-21-18 11:21 PM - Post#248859
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Speaking of Nova, as a couple of you did, it’s great to see Phil Booth back from his hand injury. They’ll need him next month. As a BU undergrad and Nova law school grad, I feel like a kid in a candy store during basketball season.
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Bison54
PhD Student
Posts: 1800
Reg: 11-18-09
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Re: Seedings Predictions
02-22-18 08:42 AM - Post#248873
In response to BUFan
I also THINK the 8/9 are locked in as Loyola and Army. While they could flip flop between 8 and 9, we will be playing one of them a week from tonight.
This is confusing
Don't we play the 7-10 winner?
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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Re: Seedings Predictions
02-22-18 10:42 AM - Post#248880
In response to Bison54
The #2 seed plays the 7-10 winner. We play the 8-9. The women's tournament is reseeded after the 1st round - i.e. #1 plays #10 if they win.
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BUFan
PhD Student
Posts: 1936
Reg: 01-24-06
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02-23-18 01:38 PM - Post#249024
In response to HuskyColonial
http://patriotleague.org/news/2018/2/23/patrio t-le...
Here are the full seeding scenarios. Looks like my earlier post was wrong and Lafayette does still have a small potential path to the 8-9 game if Colgate gets upset and a few other games bounce the right way.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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Seedings Predictions
02-24-18 05:07 PM - Post#249228
In response to BUFan
After the 2pm games, two seeding scenarios left:
Colgate, Boston University, Navy, Bucknell, Lafayette win:
1. Bucknell 2. Colgate 3. Navy 4. Boston U. 5. Lehigh
6. Lafayette 7. Holy Cross 8. Loyola 9. Army 10. American
Colgate, Boston University, Navy, Bucknell, Lehigh win:
1. Bucknell 2. Colgate 3. Navy 4. Lehigh 5. Boston U. 6. Holy Cross 7. Lafayette 8. Loyola 9. Army 10. American
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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Seedings Predictions
02-24-18 05:16 PM - Post#249230
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Thus, regardless of tonight's Lafayette-Lehigh game, we'll play the winner of Army at Loyola.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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Seedings Predictions
02-24-18 10:24 PM - Post#249400
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
The Patriot League regular season is in the books. Lehigh cruised past Lafayette, 79-64.
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