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Username Post: Columbia Leads Penn by Three at Halftime.        (Topic#21181)
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1566

Reg: 02-14-06
02-16-18 09:00 PM - Post#248112    

Columbia breaks out to a an early lead with Hickman leading the way with five points, but the Lion coaching staff pulls a "Joe Jones" and quickly removes four of the five starters which results in three minute + stint where the Lions don't score a single point. Fortunately, the Lion coaching staff realizes what's happening and puts the starting five back in and Hickman and Adlesh begin scoring again right away, but now the LIons' lead is down to three points, 25-22. Penn is having a miserable night shooting threes, but they are going inside now resulting in Tape incurring two personal fouls. If Penn starts hitting threes we are in trouble. On the other hand, If Meisner and Adlesh get hot, or if we vigorously attack the basket, we could win this game. Hickman has made a couple of sloppy turnovers in the last ninety seconds of the first half--vintage Hickman. However, he just redeemed himself by sinking two free throws. Goodman is keeping Penn in the game with career high 15 points off the bench in first half. And Goodman sinks a long three at the half for a career high of 18. Obviously, Columbia needs to make an adjustment at halftime to stop Goodman. Lions are up by three. It's a shame we are only up by three points given that Penn looked lousy in the first half and we would have been way ahead if we had keep our hot shooters on the floor.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1566

Reg: 02-14-06
02-16-18 10:14 PM - Post#248131    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Running account thanks to SNY and Ivy Digital Network: Tape goes to the bench with a silly third foul on a breakaway layup. So it's up to Jaron Faulds to guard Brodeur and keep Columbia in the game. He certainly has the talent to do that. Steve Donohue puts his hot shooter, the sub, Goodman, back on the floor. I hope the Columbia coaching staff notes that for future reference. Betley is almost invisible tonight, so Donohue is keeping the hot shooter, Goodman on the floor. Smart offensive tip-in by Meisner makes it 43-39 Columbia. Engles subs Stefanini which seems like a smart move. Let's see what happens. Bingo. He scores on a smart follow-up. Ouch! out comes Meisner, in comes Hanson and he commits a quick fool. Lions holding on 45-41. Travel call on Stefanini. Hanson makes a nice block. Lions lead by two 45-43. Time Out. Penn still looking lousy and Goodman has cooled down. Seems like we have chess match between Donohue and Engles. Seems to me that Tape was unstoppably early in the game on offense. Engles needs to bring him back with maybe 6-9 minutes left in the game and tell him to play offense and try his best not to foul on defense. I wish Mesiner went inside more--needs to play with his face to the basket where he is comfortable and not with his back to the basket where he seems uneasy. Tape is back!! Penn immediately fouls him inside. Smith and Castlin connect for a nice easy basket. Hanson is on the floor instead of Meisner. Good young player, so where was he last weekend at Yale and Brown? Injured? Sick? Brodeur smartly gets a 4th personal on Tape. Lance M says he only has 3, but I count four. Smith with the play of the game--driving layup--3 point play. Columbia up by 4 at 7:42 Meisner with a three, but Goodman responds, and again as the Hot Goodman does it again Penn moves ahead by one thanks to Goodman. Donohue works the refs successfully as Meisner is scolded for playing strong defense on a throw in from the side. Where is Coach Engles to defend Meisner? Penn now throws the ball in for an open three and a four point lead. Ouch! Credit Donohue for those three points. Another questionable foul called on Smith. We are starting to give the away to Donohue. 8-point lead now and no answer from Engles. Brodeur clearly travels, but the refs overlook it and Engles . calls time but doesn't speak to the refs. Lions need instant offense, but it is probably too late. I guess we are resting Tape for tomorrow night's game. Brodeur blocks 3 point by Meisner and takes in for an easy two. Tape is still on the bench. 18-0 run by Penn--no points by in the last five minutes, Castlin finally scores a nice strong lay-up for Columbia. We are down by 11. 1:48 left. Game is winding down with Penn winning it, of course, by a 74-62 score thanks to the 18-0 late run for which we had no answer. There are no good takeaways from this game for Columbia. Columbia once again lost an early lead when the other team figured out what to do and we did not.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2057

Reg: 03-02-08
02-16-18 11:27 PM - Post#248150    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

We were flat out outcoached in crunch time in the second half. Here is what I saw from the stands: Donohue figured out how to get Tape, who was outplaying Brodeur, into foul trouble. From the ten minute mark of the second half we looked clueless. Smith threw the ball away, Hickman reverted to form, Castlin did nothing, Adlesh started missing, everybody started making one pass too many, and Meisner was humiliated by Brodeur, who stuffed him on a three point shot and went
coast to coast. Meanwhile Donohue was there in his shirtsleeves encouraging his guys, working the refs, calling out plays and imposing his will on the game. Engles was Sphinx-like as usual, didn’t work the refs, wasn’t calling out plays, and didn’t have a clue as to what buttons to push when the game started slipping away. So we totally outplayed Penn for one half (although we should have had a bigger first half lead but let it slip away with two minutes to go), played Penn straight up for the first ten minutes of the s come half, and then gave the game away.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1566

Reg: 02-14-06
02-16-18 11:55 PM - Post#248153    
    In response to Chet Forte

Couldn't agree with you more.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1633

Reg: 10-09-09
02-17-18 12:03 AM - Post#248154    
    In response to Chet Forte

The first team was leading Penn for quite a while. Tape, especially, has come on, and is going to be a very good center in the IL if he can ever learn how to stay out of foul trouble. I am not sure why Engels subbed the way he did unless he was trying to save players' legs for tomorrow, but once he did, the second team just couldn't keep up. Stefannini played with his usual intensity but was also out of control; Faulds still lags in his development; and Hunter can't hit anything that is not directly under the basket. We should give some kudos to Hickman who had one of his better games, but Meisner and Adlesh were off, Penn disrupted our interior passing, and we stopped dead in our tracks.

Like his in-game affect, some of Engels' moves were also a mystery to me.





 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-17-18 12:08 AM - Post#248156    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

WTF is up with facilities management at Levien? It was a complete clown show with the shot clocks tonight, including two extended delays in the second half to haul out the tall ladder so they could unplug the over-the-basket clocks. This after they had stopped using them when the one over the South basket malfunctioned early in the first half, and they resorted to installing backup clocks on the floor in the corners.


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1825

Reg: 02-15-15
02-17-18 12:23 AM - Post#248160    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Give some credit to Penn for the win. They played some great defense. Saying Columbia gave this game away is a discredit to the tremendous effort Penn put forth to come back and win this game.

 
PeteD 
Junior
Posts: 288
PeteD
Loc: California
Reg: 03-13-07
02-17-18 12:42 AM - Post#248165    
    In response to Chip Bayers

A few quick observations:

- The defense was brutal. Penn was only 9 for 31 from three and won going away. This could easily have been a 25+ point loss.

- Faulds looked lost on both ends of the floor. He needs to work on a lot of things this summer if he wants to be an effective player.

- Stefanini should be getting 30+ minutes/game. He’s a future All-Ivy player. I hope Engel’s had a good reason for playing him only 9 minutes tonight because those kind of coaching decisions will put him on the hot seat real soon. NINE bleeping minutes.

 
whitakk 
Junior
Posts: 214

Age: 27
Reg: 11-11-14
02-17-18 02:03 AM - Post#248171    
    In response to PeteD

http://www.nycbuckets.com/2018/02/unlikely-hero -de...

Tape foul trouble definitely changed the game. Without him Columbia had to play into Penn's strengths offensively and match up worse defensively.

Columbia scored five points in nine minutes Smith sat. Engles said he doesn't want to play Smith 40 minutes a game (anymore), but 31 is too few.

 
Columbia Alum 
Junior
Posts: 247

Age: 32
Reg: 11-15-11
Columbia Leads Penn by Three at Halftime.
02-17-18 08:38 AM - Post#248185    
    In response to whitakk

We are just not that good of a team. Some rah-rah motivation and gimmicks gets us off to early leads, but then opposing coaches figure out our team and we're toast. Smith is very talented but still too short in a tall game, he is an inefficient scorer, Hickman even less efficient. Meisner and tape are ineffectual on defense because they have not been trained to defend well without getting into foul trouble. Adlesh is good, but again undersized on defense. Faulds and stefanini are still too green to be consistent. Castlin is good but not taking charge and playing a smaller role than he should offensively. Finally coach Engels seems to be outcoached in 75% of games, he has no answer once other teams figure our offense out and figure out how to break our D. If we don't make the tourney next year, engles should be fired, three years is a lenient amount of time to build a program, thus far there has been zero progress, there are no excuses next year.

Edited by Columbia Alum on 02-17-18 08:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4617

Reg: 11-22-04
02-17-18 10:36 AM - Post#248195    
    In response to PeteD

On Stefanini, maybe that’s the move for the future, but Columbia was getting killed when he was in the game last night. In a first half in which they led by 3 overall, they were minus 9 when Stefanini was on the floor.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2057

Reg: 03-02-08
02-17-18 10:58 AM - Post#248197    
    In response to SomeGuy

Stefanini looked pretty ragged last night. A few other observations: we had some unforced turnovers wher we tried to make one pass too many in traffic. Castlin seemed unusually passive and didn’t turn it on during the second half. Smith tried to force too many drives into traffic. We had a lot of very good looks that we normally convert for three but they weren’t falling. Faulds needs to get a lot stronger to be effective and will have to spend a lot of time in the weight room before next season. Tape has a lot of upside but bald needs some good coaching to stay out of foul trouble. When he was in Penn really had n answer to him. Meisner looked awful when he was stuffed by Brodeur. How a player with his size and talent can have a three ball blocked is beyond me. And finally, I still believe that this was a winnable game which we could have won with better coaching. The last two minutes of the first half were a giveaway for me. Once again, we gave up some easy buckets after running up a nice lead because we didn’t seem to know how to close out a good first half.


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4617

Reg: 11-22-04
02-17-18 11:05 AM - Post#248198    
    In response to Chet Forte

Love Donahue, but what exactly did he figure out to get Tape in foul trouble? In the first half, he just went over the back twice trying to get an offensive rebound. In the second half, Rothschild got a breakaway and Tape basically grabbed him to keep him from scoring. None of those were plays where you are working to draw fouls from a guy; Tape fouled on his own. On the fourth foul, they did isolate Brodeur and Tape away from the basket so AJ could drive. Not sure that was so much about fouls as it was about what worked in Philly.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4617

Reg: 11-22-04
02-17-18 11:18 AM - Post#248200    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Hanson had his wisdom teeth removed last weekend and didn’t travel with the team.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4617

Reg: 11-22-04
02-17-18 11:55 AM - Post#248203    
    In response to Chet Forte

No answer to Tape? He had two baskets, and one was on a switch on a screen (and the switch was obviously to stop Smith) where Tape ended up with Caleb Wood guarding him. So is the idea that he outplayed Brodeur because he went around him on that one reverse? That was one play. Yesterday they were 4-4 when guarding each other (and that includes the Tape basket after the switch - if we’re just looking at literally when they were on each other, it was 4-2 Brodeur). When Rothschild was guarding him (and that was the matchup to start each half), Tape never scored and never even got a shot.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1633

Reg: 10-09-09
02-17-18 01:31 PM - Post#248225    
    In response to SomeGuy

Tape's Orat was 209. I am not sure about the implications of a play by play analysis of his performance, but at 209, it certainly doesn't sound as if Penn succeeded in neutralizing him.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3716

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
02-17-18 01:36 PM - Post#248228    
    In response to SomeGuy

I think Tape was better guarding Brodeur than anyone else. Brodeur had his way in the 2nd half with Tape out.

Donahue made a few changes throughout the game that Engles didn't - or couldn't - counter.

Foreman stifled Adlesh. It looked like Goodman had Smith and did a nice job on him. Woods was covering Meisner when Donahue when with four guards and played him well - Meisner took advantage of the height difference a couple of times but not often enough.

On the defensive end, Engles seemed to have the team prepared for Betley and also for Penn's backdoors, but didn't switch up the D when Brodeur was running wild inside and there was also no effective change to the D to counter Goodman.

Most troubling, the team collapsed on both ends once things were starting to unravel midway through the 2nd half. It has been a pattern the whole year.


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3255

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-17-18 02:03 PM - Post#248236    
    In response to cc66

  • cc66 Said:
Tape's Orat was 209. I am not sure about the implications of a play by play analysis of his performance, but at 209, it certainly doesn't sound as if Penn succeeded in neutralizing him.



I wouldn't make too much of an ORAT that only covers 11 minutes of play.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2057

Reg: 03-02-08
02-17-18 02:26 PM - Post#248244    
    In response to Silver Maple

Lo, Mullins, Rosie, Luke, plus Cohen as the glue guy: all Smith recruits. Compare them to our top four or five this year. Luke was only the fourth best guy on those teams. So outside of Castlin, Meisner and Smith maybe the real problem is that we are what our record says we are. Engles hasn’t done much, but then again is there anybody on this roster with the talent level of Mullins or Lo, or the incredible toughness of Rosie?


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4617

Reg: 11-22-04
02-17-18 03:22 PM - Post#248270    
    In response to cc66

Except that his usage rate was 9.4%. You hold a guy to that usage rate, he isn’t impacting much of anything on the offensive, even if he makes every shot. Unless you are doubling him, which they weren’t (in fact, Brodeur was actually playing off Tape to defend the middle quite a bit).

 
PeteD 
Junior
Posts: 288
PeteD
Loc: California
Reg: 03-13-07
02-17-18 03:27 PM - Post#248273    
    In response to SomeGuy

  • SomeGuy Said:
On Stefanini, maybe that’s the move for the future, but Columbia was getting killed when he was in the game last night. In a first half in which they led by 3 overall, they were minus 9 when Stefanini was on the floor.



They were getting killed while he was on the floor or were they getting killed as a result of him being on the floor? Maybe it had something to do with Goodman catching fire.


 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7919

Reg: 12-07-04
Columbia Leads Penn by Three at Halftime.
02-17-18 04:43 PM - Post#248279    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

  • Columbia 37P6 Said:
Donohue works the refs successfully as Meisner is scolded for playing strong defense on a throw in from the side. Where is Coach Engles to defend Meisner? Penn now throws the ball in for an open three and a four point lead. Ouch! Credit Donohue for those three points.



And in a world where facts matter, not only was Meisner reaching over too far on the deflection, he decided to get in Caleb's face and taunt him after. He singlehandedly fired up the entire Penn team (thanks by the way) and I find it funny that his being "scolded" somehow led to that backbreaking 3. He still very much challenged the pass which came in high, and he's the one who got screened off on the 3. Did Coach DonAhue set the screen and I missed it?

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3716

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
02-17-18 05:54 PM - Post#248283    
    In response to Quakers03

I agree with 37P6 - Meisner was aggressive but that's good basketball. The ref asked him - and it seemed politely as the ref was laughing - to not go over the sideline stripe. Meisner backed up so he wasn't hugging the line. If there was taunting then I missed it.

Donahue used it as an opportunity to work the refs. That's also good basketball and if Engles isn't doing enough of that then he should. I didn't think it impacted the next play though.

I recall Smith being too polite around the refs for his first couple of years until he had enough games coaching against the Hurleys to learn what to do.



 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2057

Reg: 03-02-08
02-17-18 06:01 PM - Post#248284    
    In response to TheLine

There was Donohue, jacket off, working the refs, complaining all evening, firing up his team, calling in plays, etc. , and there was Engles, deep in thought I suppose.


 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7919

Reg: 12-07-04
Columbia Leads Penn by Three at Halftime.
02-17-18 06:01 PM - Post#248285    
    In response to TheLine

I can't comment on the disposition of Columbia's coach and I understand why their fans might be upset if this is a continuing trend but this is not the example to use. It happens right at the 5:47 mark. He not only stares him down, he gets in his face too. Is the contention that he would have stolen the ball if not for being spoken to?? He still obstructed the pass but the defender had backed off. Even if he hadn't taunted, what effect would Steve saying something have had? How many times is that pass stolen? He was in place on d and couldn't get through the screen. A fired up Penn team then really stuck it to him.

Now go beat Princeton!

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3716

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
02-17-18 06:11 PM - Post#248287    
    In response to Quakers03

I don't think Meisner did anything wrong. He was just fired up for blocking the inbounds pass.

It was telling that Donahue and the Penn bench were more excited about it than Engles and the Columbia bench.

I miss Rosenberg.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2057

Reg: 03-02-08
02-17-18 06:22 PM - Post#248289    
    In response to TheLine

There were half a dozen close calls in the second half that went Penn’s way. We blew the game, but the refs helped. And they helped because Donohue intimidates them and Engles is totally passive. Did you ever watch Bags work the refs on the sidelines. OK, so he got two unsportsmanlike calls on him this year but it was worth it. Smith sometimes got called for PFs but as least he let the refs know that he wasn’t a potted plant.


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3716

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
02-17-18 06:38 PM - Post#248293    
    In response to Chet Forte

Bags is an all-time great at working the refs.


 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 7919

Reg: 12-07-04
02-17-18 06:48 PM - Post#248294    
    In response to TheLine

Are you saying that from memory or did you rewatch it? It was completely uncalled for. Who steps into someones face and taunts on a deflected inbounds pass? And right in front of the Penn bench? Not a smart play.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19011

Reg: 11-21-04
02-17-18 08:19 PM - Post#248318    
    In response to Chet Forte

Good to see you never change. Always the refs. How about the fact that Penn was clearly the more aggressive team---getting to the loose balls and earning the foul calls. If Penn had been shooting halfway to its potential, that would have been a game long blowout.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2057

Reg: 03-02-08
02-17-18 11:10 PM - Post#248421    
    In response to palestra38

Love the way you guys from Penn troll on our blog. You always take the bait.


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3255

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-17-18 11:28 PM - Post#248422    
    In response to Chet Forte

Your blog? It's the board for discussing Columbia basketball. It's not only for Columbia fans. Feel free to come over to the Penn board anytime. Love to have you.

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-17-18 11:49 PM - Post#248426    
    In response to Silver Maple

Seriously, the next time someone blogs here will be the first time someone blogs here.


 
Murph 
Masters Student
Posts: 613

Age: 58
Reg: 09-13-11
02-20-18 07:42 AM - Post#248682    
    In response to Chet Forte

  • Chet Forte Said:
Lo, Mullins, Rosie, Luke, plus Cohen as the glue guy: all Smith recruits.



I miss Rosenberg also. He was a tough kid and team leader. But if I'm not mistaken, he was a Joe Jones recruit.


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3716

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
02-20-18 07:51 AM - Post#248683    
    In response to Murph

Murph, you are correct. Jones recruited Rosenberg, then Rosenberg prepped for a year.

I believe the first Smith recruit was Jeff Coby.


 
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