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Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



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Username Post: Columbia        (Topic#21183)
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5238

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-18 01:12 PM - Post#248486    
    In response to bradley

If Llewellyn were to have backed out, it would have likely been towards the end of the summer/fall when there was some buzz that he might. I'd feel pretty comfortable that he'll be there at this point.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2272

Reg: 11-23-04
Columbia
02-18-18 02:15 PM - Post#248493    
    In response to mrjames

I agree with early post: cut out the Chicken Little. Caca pasa. Life doesn't always turn out as expected. Next year is a new start.

For now, I'm pulling for the Perfect Storm: Tigers or another down team like Brown pulls a miraculous recovery, gets the 4th seed, knocks off Penn/harvard and then harvard/Penn (apologies to whichever is the Ivy Champ) for the NCAA, then gets a 16 play in. Everyone screams that we aren't ready for a silly tourney and we put it out of its misery until the IL can produce 2 solid bid teams.

Edited by Tiger69 on 02-18-18 02:21 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3521

Reg: 02-04-06
02-18-18 03:07 PM - Post#248497    
    In response to Tiger69

Keeping perspective is aided by looking at horrible recent losing streaks of previously ranked programs across the land. Many of those teams know they still have a shot at the NCAA tournament, but some may be sliding to oblivion (USC, Miami, SMU). I wonder if part of the reason for the apparent Tiger meltdown is that they expected to be so much better and are having trouble taking on the necessary scrappy mentality needed to get back to playing well and with confidence.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 04:23 PM - Post#248506    
    In response to Tiger69

The really big game next weekend as to what team has the opportunity to have their kids play at the Big Dance is Friday night at Columbia vs. Saturday night at the Palestra. The Palestra should be buzzing Saturday night but probably at a very different pitch if there was no IL Tournament.

I hope that your scenario does not unfold as described as either Penn or Harvard players deserve to go to the NCAA Tournament if they win the regular season.

If Harvard wins next Saturday, they just may have to do it one more time on the road against Penn at IvyMadness. If Penn wins next Saturday night and loses at the IL Tournament, I hope that Coach Donahue and the AD can sit down with Foreman and comfort him after he busted his shoes for four years during some challenging times.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11383

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 04:48 PM - Post#248509    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:

If Penn wins next Saturday night and loses at the IL Tournament, I hope that Coach Donahue and the AD can sit down with Foreman and comfort him after he busted his shoes for four years during some challenging times.



If Penn wins on Saturday night, Foreman will finally, in all probability, get to play in a college postseason tourney of some kind.


 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 05:02 PM - Post#248511    
    In response to penn nation

I guess your thinking is that the NIT experience replaces the dream that boys have of going to the Big Dance one time in their life and being on national TV. Great payback if the Quakers go 13-1 -- I guess??

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11383

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 05:53 PM - Post#248518    
    In response to bradley

Considering where this program has been the past decade, and preseason predictions, if you would have told me before the year started that Penn would be going to the NIT?

A major, major coup and Foreman (and Wood) would be thrilled to get the chance.

Edited by penn nation on 02-18-18 05:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2272

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 05:54 PM - Post#248519    
    In response to bradley

"I hope that your scenario does not unfold as either Penn or Harvard players deserve to go to the NCAA tournament if they win the regular season".

PRECISELY MY POINT! But, it will take tourney travesty to make the IL reconsider whether we should determine our NCAA rep with a two game champ or a 14 game champ. I don't give sh** if the teams out of the league race lose interest near the end of the season. We can still have the Tourney for a lesser prize than the NCAA bid which the regular champ rightfully deserves (as you pointed out).

 
Columbia Alum 
Junior
Posts: 247

Age: 32
Reg: 11-15-11
02-18-18 06:23 PM - Post#248527    
    In response to Tiger69

Makai mason is back, Yale will make the dance, my prediction.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 06:37 PM - Post#248528    
    In response to Tiger69

Apologies if we’ve gone around this bend before, but to me the argument about sending the “best” league rep rings very hollow. When every other league in the country uses a tournament, while we would be playing within the rules by sending the regular season champ, it feels like we’d be grabbing a less than sporting advantage by being the only conference in the country that doesn’t expose their regular season champ to the danger of a tourney upset. Yes, the other conferences have a choice, but it should probably tell us something that everyone else in the country chooses to have a tournament.

Watching Penn Columbia on Friday night, Isaac Cohen was lamenting how he never got to participate in the Ivy tournament.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 07:29 PM - Post#248531    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Some thoughts here. I think it is more than just a “not our year” kind of thing. Yes, a bounce here or there wins the Brown and Cornell games. But overall Princeton has played poorly enough over the last 6 to drop from the top 120 in Pomeroy all the way to 200. That means they have played at a very low level for the last 6.

On the coaching, I think the current coaches in the league are very good. The one thing on Henderson is that it often seems like a work in progress. He seems to take some time getting to the right combo rather than having it in mind and building to it. Could be viewed as a strength or a weakness, I suppose.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2272

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 09:06 PM - Post#248542    
    In response to SomeGuy

SG,
I agree that something must have happened to cause such a sudden change in performance over the past half dozen P games. But, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about the coach. Perhaps, Penn discovered a weakness in our D that it and others have exploited. Our inability to adjust quickly enough has probably cost us any success for this season. We still have a successful coach and recruiter.
But, I stick to my guns on giving the bid to the regular season winner -- this year h or Penn. They are the class of the league this year and could possibly be denied by the Tourney as Princeton very nearly was last season. Only an injustice like, say, a fluky pair of wins by a 4 seed will open some people's eyes. Also, I cringe at your apparent assumption that if all other leagues have adopted a tournament to determine their representative, it is the best and only way. Sorry to sound arrogant, But, our 14 game method was both smarter and fairer. Why follow the lemmings?

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Columbia
02-18-18 09:12 PM - Post#248544    
    In response to Tiger69

But is it fair when the rest of the world doesn’t do it? It seems to me that is not “fair” to the rest of the participants. Would it be ok if we just sent our All-Ivy team?

As for the #4 team winning demonstrating the folly of the system, it won’t. There will be a certain small percentage of the time where the 4 Seed wins. That’s how it works. That’s the expectation, and part of what makes it fun.



 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3521

Reg: 02-04-06
02-18-18 09:43 PM - Post#248545    
    In response to SomeGuy

I don't see why others' voluntary choice to adopt a different strategy makes it "unfair" to pursue ours. Reminds me of an early "romantic" period in chess where it was considered unsporting to play any opening but the King's Gambit Accepted.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5238

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-18-18 10:38 PM - Post#248550    
    In response to SRP

I think it would have been interesting if the NCAA made a rule stating that the bid had to be decided this way. I’m a firm believer that (assuming an objective/accurate selection process) if you want a bid, go earn one as an at large.

 
gopenngo 
Masters Student
Posts: 445

Reg: 01-30-06
02-19-18 02:23 AM - Post#248564    
    In response to mrjames

A previous poster indicated player enthusiasm for Ivy Madness. As a low major league, the players' preferences should be given considerable weight. It's about them and not us. We're never going to see an Ivy final four team again, so why not maximize the experience and fun-level of the scholar athletes league-wide.

I had originally considered the tournament capitulation to be a bad thing, but I hadn't given much thought to what the players thought, league wide.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3521

Reg: 02-04-06
02-19-18 01:27 PM - Post#248605    
    In response to gopenngo

Strongly disagree with Mike about an all at-large field. Both the way schedules and conferences work and the romance of the thing mean it should be more like the FA Cup.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5238

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-19-18 03:45 PM - Post#248622    
    In response to SRP

Oh - I definitely don't think it should be an all at-large field. Every conference should be represented (in fact, every conference should go straight into the field instead of this PIG nonsense).

At the same time, I'd never argue that a 15-seed is more "deserving" of being in the tourney than the first at-large team left out. It's a gift, given to all conferences, because the excitement of having a rep from all conferences is seen as a value add for the tournament. It's a gift given to all conferences because March is madness and every conference is a mini-bracket funneling toward this overall championship. While the NCAA allows each conference to award that bid however it sees fit, I think there's something sporting about participating in the same conference tournament to NCAA tournament structure that embodies the rest of March Madness.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
02-19-18 05:40 PM - Post#248644    
    In response to mrjames

I’m still in favor of having the NCAAs play down from 256.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3237

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-19-18 05:59 PM - Post#248648    
    In response to SomeGuy

It would certainly be a spectacle-- I'll say that.

 
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