Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



Username Post: Harvard        (Topic#21209)
Eric Von Zipper 
Freshman
Posts: 69

Age: 65
Reg: 11-11-17
02-22-18 09:41 PM - Post#248961    

Game opens pick'em

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3236

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-22-18 09:45 PM - Post#248962    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

Go Tigers. E I E I E I O.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11368

Reg: 12-02-04
02-22-18 10:00 PM - Post#248965    
    In response to Silver Maple

Take those dudes down, on the way to your grave.



 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1479
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 67
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 08:26 PM - Post#249074    
    In response to penn nation

Mitch's gray highlights look great on hi-def.

Wonderful left handed jump hook by AririG

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 09:53 PM - Post#249094    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Just awful execution on offense on last few possessions here after Harvard tied it at 60. Last chance with this force of a shot clock violation.


 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1479
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 67
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 09:56 PM - Post#249095    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Horrible last play in regulation

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 09:58 PM - Post#249096    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Yeah, they’re just really tentative and hesitant. Playing not to lose.


 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 10:03 PM - Post#249097    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Good work by Aririguzoh to get Lewis off his feet and foul him out. But the deadly 0-2 FT trip, and now they’re down 4.


 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 10:05 PM - Post#249098    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Now Much an 0-2. Awful stuff.


 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1479
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 67
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 10:11 PM - Post#249101    
    In response to Chip Bayers

And so it goes

 
gokinsmen 
Postdoc
Posts: 2602

Reg: 02-06-10
Harvard
02-23-18 10:15 PM - Post#249106    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Another comedy of errors ends the season. Might as well forfeit to Dartmouth tomorrow. This team gave up weeks ago.

That one Brown game completely broke them and shattered their confidence for the rest of the year. How can one game do that? With this level of talent, it's inexcusable to have a collapse this historic.

Myles, Devin and Co. need the summer to recharge. And Mitch needs to go on some Tony Robbins-style retreat to figure out why he can't motivate his team.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3236

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-23-18 10:25 PM - Post#249108    
    In response to gokinsmen

Thanks for taking them to OT. Much appreciated. But would it have killed you to win?

 
Eric Von Zipper 
Freshman
Posts: 69

Age: 65
Reg: 11-11-17
02-23-18 10:32 PM - Post#249112    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

Same old story. Foul more than they get fouled and then miss the free throws.

The game should have never gone to OT

 
umbrellaman 
Senior
Posts: 384
umbrellaman
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 10:43 PM - Post#249115    
    In response to Eric Von Zipper

Let me apologize to Princeton fandom. During the semifinals of the Ivy Tournament, various bargains, deals, contracts and covenants were offered to multiple supernatural entities, some of dubious provenance, in exchange for a win against the Quakers in their House of Horrors. Deliverance has a price it seems, and it seems it's time to pay.

 
TigerFan 
PhD Student
Posts: 1131

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard
02-23-18 11:05 PM - Post#249126    
    In response to gokinsmen

Something is seriously wrong with this team and it’s pretty clear it starts with the coach. I’m afraid it looks like Mitch has no idea what he’s doing at the end of games or first halfs. (Myles hitting a three at the end of the half was a rare exception in league play). Time and again we are not even getting shots off in crunch time.

What was the team thinking trying to run clock up 4, then up 2 at the end of regulation? Harvard’s defense is just too good to try to start looking for a shot with under 10 seconds. You can get away with that when you have a solid defense but this team needs to outscore it’s opponents. That was a carbon copy of the way they blew the late 4 point lead against Brown.

To think I missed snow boarding for that!

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
02-23-18 11:15 PM - Post#249131    
    In response to umbrellaman

  • umbrellaman Said:
Let me apologize to Princeton fandom. During the semifinals of the Ivy Tournament, various bargains, deals, contracts and covenants were offered to multiple supernatural entities, some of dubious provenance, in exchange for a win against the Quakers in their House of Horrors. Deliverance has a price it seems, and it seems it's time to pay.



Sacrificing to the ghost of Spencer Gloger is what angered too many other gods Patrick.


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3236

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-23-18 11:25 PM - Post#249134    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Someplace, Donald Moxley is having a good laugh.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1479
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 67
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard
02-24-18 08:42 AM - Post#249150    
    In response to gokinsmen

  • gokinsmen Said:
Another comedy of errors ends the season. Might as well forfeit to Dartmouth tomorrow. This team gave up weeks ago.

That one Brown game completely broke them and shattered their confidence for the rest of the year. How can one game do that? With this level of talent, it's inexcusable to have a collapse this historic.

Myles, Devin and Co. need the summer to recharge. And Mitch needs to go on some Tony Robbins-style retreat to figure out why he can't motivate his team.



Well, at least I have no motivation to drive up to tonight’s game from Baltimore in the rain.

I don’t think any of us thought this team would be great, but certainly good enough to make the tournament.

The collapse, as stated, started with the loss to Brown, continued with Bell’s air ball foul shot, and ended with the miserable free throw shooting down the stretch this game.

Also a couple defensive lapses by Desrosier.

Looking back, the knee injury to Gladson left us undermanned in the pivot. He also had a difficult time getting in the offensive and defensive flow due to his late entry into the lineup.

But to me, the Miami game showed the world that Cannady is guardable--you just have to put someone in his shirt. He can’t create space, and then he gets frustrated and drives to the hoop into the teeth of the defense, often creating turnovers.

Bell is frustrating; he has so much talent. My biggest criticism of Mitch is his failure to utilize Bell to advantage.

Stephens stepped up, mostly by taking 3’s and hitting them. But we all know about variance with the three ball. Harvard chose not to double him down low, and they are one of the few teams that can get away with it. I hope next year when he feels the double, he can find the open man on a kick out, but like Ian Hummer, may never be adept at it. If he could find the open man like Weisz, it would make teams much more reluctant to double him.

Stephens 4 of 5 from 3. Rest of team: 5 of 22. Ecch.

Much was forced to play D on the big man down low, and worked hard at it. I think that energy expenditure is why he shot so poorly.

I hope Carril spends the summer teaching Aririguzoh to shoot foul shots. The rest of his game has progressed wonderfully.

But next year we are still undermanned with bigs, and will presumably have a freshman point guard, while the rest of the league matures as well. I guess the goal next year is the same: just get to the tournament.



 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 881
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Re: Harvard
02-24-18 09:49 AM - Post#249162    
    In response to TigerFan

There's lacrosse v. UVA on espn3 today @ 1:00 PM. We'll probably lose, but the team cares and the season is early so there's lots of optimism.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18839

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Harvard
02-24-18 10:44 AM - Post#249167    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

It's not the first time a hot shot underclassman was exposed when forced to be a leader on the court. A lot of us thought that Princeton would struggle losing Weisz and Cook, as well as their big men. How could they not? Very few Ivy teams in recent years have had that level of talent on an undefeated team graduate---all I can think of is Penn in 2008 and 1996 (although that team managed to tie Princeton and lose a heartbreaker in OT in the playoff). And now you will lose Bell...it will be tough until Princeton has more game ready players, could be 2-3 years. No one would have expected the collapse like this, though.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3236

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
02-24-18 11:06 AM - Post#249171    
    In response to palestra38

I don’t think it will take 3 years. 2 at most. There’s good coaching and a lot of talent in the program. They’re just having a lousy season. It happens.

 
1LotteryPick1969 
PhD Student
Posts: 1479
1LotteryPick1969
Age: 67
Loc: Baltimore, Maryland
Reg: 11-21-04
02-24-18 11:27 AM - Post#249172    
    In response to Silver Maple

Do we think Chris Lewis was a more highly rated recruit than James Brown?

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-24-18 12:37 PM - Post#249191    
    In response to Silver Maple

Jaelin Llewellyn.

Things will be very different, very quickly next year.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-24-18 12:40 PM - Post#249193    
    In response to 1LotteryPick1969

I tend to think of Ivy recruiting statements as “AI-era” only. Comparing anything to the 60s and 70s is rough, because the league was very different.

He’s not even the highest rated Ivy recruit in my database going back to 2003. Though I think you hear that a lot on ESPN broadcasts because he was in the 60s at ESPN and that was the highest for an Ivy recruit in their records.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
02-24-18 01:30 PM - Post#249202    
    In response to mrjames

I agree with one caveat. Stephens or Cannady or both need to become leaders with the will to win no matter what obstacles. A 2nd one might be that Mitch commits to playing Arirguzoh. Tigers backcourt will be potent.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18839

Reg: 11-21-04
02-24-18 04:01 PM - Post#249220    
    In response to bradley

A team ready to contend doesn't lose 8 in a row down the stretch. Princeton's freshmen (this year's) will have to be MUCH better (pun intended). Henderson has been a good coach until this year so it wouldn't surprise me if they found themselves in the mix but I think they are behind Yale and Columbia in terms of guys ready to play right now.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
02-24-18 05:55 PM - Post#249232    
    In response to palestra38

Neither the overall record nor Ken Pom says Columbia is better than Princeton. Columbia obviously has played better over the last 7 games, but I don’t think that we can or should presume that the last 7 games are more (or less) indicative than the rest of the results for these teams. They are just more data points.

Personally, I think Princeton has a better setup for the future even before adding the incoming class, and the incoming class looks better for them as well. But it’s close enough overall to be reasonably debatable— just saying i’d Take Princeton’s situation.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
02-24-18 06:08 PM - Post#249236    
    In response to SomeGuy

That's highly debatable. The context for the last seven games includes the return of Kyle Castlin + the clear improvement in the performance of a group of younger players. Hence the additional data is not just shapeless and random, but rather tracks very closely with specific new developments within the team.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
02-24-18 06:36 PM - Post#249239    
    In response to cc66

You’d have to offer me significant odds to take Columbia over Princeton next year, as the two teams are currently expected to be constructed. Something like +300 or more.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1631

Reg: 10-09-09
02-24-18 06:45 PM - Post#249241    
    In response to mrjames

I was referring to what SG said about this year, not the projections for next.

That said, we will have 3 players (Smith, Adlesh, Meisner) who will probably rate as All-Ivy honorable mention or better, plus the addition of Ellis, and the improvement of Tape/Faulds. Although I don't know whether we will be better than Princeton, we will be quite a good team.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3521

Reg: 02-04-06
02-24-18 08:53 PM - Post#249299    
    In response to cc66

The team's meltdown this year has been strange. Some tactical, some emotional, some technical.

I still think the elixir for all three of the problems is to play more aggressive, ball-hawking defense with simpler rotations and slides. It's hard to be in a funk when you're getting deflections and steals and harassing the other team. And it's easier to yell "play harder" than "play smarter," which MH has ended up having to do too many times.

Lots of long-armed guys with decent hops but not as much lateral quickness, combined with a lot of younger guys who have trouble figuring out switches, makes the current complex yet mostly passive switching man/matchup zone a questionable choice. (Especially against Harvard, which practically wants to turn the ball over if you give them half an excuse, it seems perverse not to be all over the dribbler and the first-pass lanes.) So frustrating to get a team in trouble late in the shot clock, only to have them hit a shot or get an OR, which has happened a lot during this losing streak. At least stick Morales in there to be a pest once in a while.

For most of the game, the offense looked OK, although the threes weren't falling and the FT shooting was poor. But at least there was some shape and spacing and passing and cutting--it looked like an offense, not a bunch of guys trying to win it by themselves.

Much will get a lot better next year, I predict (although he was quite productive this year). The angry expression on his face when he makes a mistake looks like "I know I can be better than that," which bodes well for him cleaning up some of his defensive issues. Cannady should spend time working on his floater game, because he can usually get into the lane when opponents overplay the three, but he cannot finish at the rim in traffic with any consistency. Stephens should keep working on that outside shot and practice finding open guys against collapsing defenses. Aririguzoh has only scratched the surface of what he can do--I thought he played valiantly against Lewis and did a decent job, even though Lewis scored efficiently overall. i wouldn't write off Schwieger, either--he looked good but inexperienced this year.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
02-25-18 12:16 AM - Post#249423    
    In response to cc66

Well, when I talk about the kenpom ratings, Princeton has played poorly over the last 7 more than Columbia has played well. Mike James can probably isolate this and tell us where each has been over the last 7, but I would guess that Columbia has continued to chug along as a team in the 200-250 range all year, while Princeton played like a top 125 team for a while and then has played poorly enough over the last 7 to plummet to 200. So unless Kyle Castlin is making Princeton worse, I don’t see the big uptick in Columbia.

Personally, I think this is two years in a row where Columbia is fairly similar through the course of the year, but the home/away split makes it seem like they collapsed (last year) or improved (this year). I think the reality is that they play better at home, and if you front or backload the home games, It can look like they’ve changed more than they really have.

 
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

1601 Views




Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.211 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 06:11 PM
Top