palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32810
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-28-18 08:37 PM - Post#249949
In response to TheLine
That's true. The best way to look at this is to rely on the words of the immortal Rick Springfield: "I want to tell her that I love her but the point is probably moot." It doesn't matter what we want. It is what it is.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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02-28-18 08:54 PM - Post#249952
In response to TheLine
But I'll be far more disappointed if they don't come in 1st in the league. That banner is important
Ok, that's how you feel, but I can't understand how winning the regular season could matter more to you than going to the NCAAs. When I said that "we no longer value" the regular season, I point solely to the fact that it no longer carries the automatic bid with it. That was its real value.
I can tell by your screen name that you go back to the days when enough students cared that there WAS a line. Back then, going to the tournament was the main goal and it happened about half the time over the course of a few decades. Did you really feel any consolation after losing the playoffs in '96 (or '81 if you are old enough to remember) by having a share of the regular season? Do those banners make you feel anything other than disappointment?
I guess it's possible that some people see it that way. I just don't.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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02-28-18 09:19 PM - Post#249954
In response to penn nation
Why do you say I was joking?
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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02-28-18 10:10 PM - Post#249960
In response to LyleGold
A share of the regular season doesn't count.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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Coach of the Year
02-28-18 10:36 PM - Post#249963
In response to TheLine
A share of the regular season doesn't count.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Wait, we DO agree on that. Not only do I think that a shared title followed by a playoff loss didn't count as a title back then, finishing first in the regular season followed by an ILT loss now doesn't count as a title either. To claim the Ivy League championship, you have to win the automatic bid. We just go about it in a way that devalues the regular season.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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02-28-18 11:32 PM - Post#249974
In response to LyleGold
Your favorite MLB team wins the pennant, only to be knocked out in the playoffs by the 2nd place team. Do they take the the pennant away and reward it to the 2nd place team? And does that pennant lose its value?
Where we agree is that we'd like both the banner and the NCAAs.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3585
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-01-18 12:03 AM - Post#249976
In response to LyleGold
When I said that "we no longer value" the regular season, I point solely to the fact that it no longer carries the automatic bid with it. That was its real value.
That's the part that is wrong to me. They split it up, which doesn't mean winning a banner has no value. It may have no value to you, but to the program and the school, banners have tremendous value and help the school attract athletes in the future.
Would you rather finish 4th each of the next ten years and win the bid via the ILT 5 times or finish first 10 years in a row and win the bid via ILT 5 times?
Just because they split the regular season championship banner and the bid into two separate pieces doesn't make one or the other less valuable to the school/team. Donahue has said the first and only goal is to win the league this weekend and hang that banner. Next weekend they can focus on the bid.
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4473
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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03-01-18 10:55 AM - Post#249988
In response to PennFan10
I'm not sure why we need to debate these false alternatives:
Would y'all want us to finish first in the IL??
Would y'all want us to finish third in the IL but win the Ivy League tournament?
I would suggest both options would be favorable... Maybe not most favorable.
I think it's safe to say that all Penn posters want us to finish first in the IL and win the ILT and then knock off Purdue & Creighton to get into the Sweet Sixteen... In my ideal scenario, we crush Princeton in the first round before knocking off Harvard.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-01-18 01:19 PM - Post#250022
In response to Cvonvorys
Why do you have Princeton even in the ILT in your "ideal" scenario? I like it so much better if they don't get in. We have already crushed them this year, including at Jadwin. Why tempt fate?
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4473
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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03-01-18 02:40 PM - Post#250028
In response to SteveChop
My ideal scenario includes beating them in the Tourney. I guess my nightmare scenario is losing to them in the Tourney.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-01-18 03:00 PM - Post#250030
In response to Cvonvorys
I'd like a pony. The point is that you don't get everything you want.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-01-18 03:08 PM - Post#250031
In response to Silver Maple
I'd like a pony. The point is that you don't get everything you want.
Be careful what you ask for
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-06-18 02:22 PM - Post#251088
In response to penn nation
I was just reflecting on SD's coaching season. People have pointed out the strength of schedule and the decline of the league as reasons to discount the accomplishment.
The masterful coaching job was not because of the record in of itself and not because of the ivy league title. Those were byproducts of the coaching. The real beauty was in getting far more out of the talent than we've seen in the last decade. Everyone had a purpose and role and there was team buy-in. They competed to the end of EVERY game, even if there were mistakes in some of them.
I commented that I was impressed even after some of their early bad losses. An Ivy title makes it more obvious that SD was a great coach this year, but I think I would have felt that way regardless.
Hope he can recruit like mad from here, because he can clearly organize a team to play well.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-06-18 02:45 PM - Post#251093
In response to Penndemonium
I remarked right after the Nova blowout loss that Penn actually did not look bad out there one bit. No deer in the headlights look. Nova was simply at a way way higher level.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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03-06-18 03:06 PM - Post#251098
In response to penn nation
I attended that game and felt the same way.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-06-18 03:09 PM - Post#251099
In response to penn nation
Yes-- anybody who still has doubts about Donahue's ability with Xs and Os, as well as in creating an effective culture, should just shut up at this point. And now we'll find out how well he can recruit. If, after the season the team just had, Penn can't start bringing in the caliber of player that HYP have been getting for the past few seasons, it will mean either that recruiting is a weakness for Donahue, or that the systemic disadvantages are just too great to overcome.
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LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-06-18 03:22 PM - Post#251100
In response to Penndemonium
I was just reflecting on SD's coaching season. People have pointed out the strength of schedule and the decline of the league as reasons to discount the accomplishment.
An Ivy title makes it more obvious that SD was a great coach this year, but I think I would have felt that way regardless.
Hope he can recruit like mad from here, because he can clearly organize a team to play well.
Not sure to whom you refer, but "discount" is pretty unfair. I don't remember anyone doing that, although some people roasted SD's foul/no foul end game strategy. I honestly don't believe anyone has downplayed his coaching accomplishments. That doesn't change the reality that we have a better chance to win the real championship due to Yale and Harvard being weakened by injuries and Princeton's unexpected collapse after a 16-0 championship year. Those factors will not be present next year, so this is a chance we can't let slip away. The real recruiting boon will come from an appearance in the NCAAs more than a share of a regular season title. That's not a knock on SD at all; it's just reality.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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Coach of the Year
03-06-18 08:52 PM - Post#251138
In response to LyleGold
If Stevie D doesn’t get COY, I will throw a streamer in protest after penn’s first FGM on Saturday! Technical be damned
Edited by Charlie Fog on 03-06-18 08:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
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03-06-18 09:32 PM - Post#251144
In response to Charlie Fog
Donahue is COY and its not even an issue. Move on please
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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03-07-18 07:39 AM - Post#251174
In response to JadwinGeorge
I still might throw a streamer.
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