Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-03-18 04:48 PM - Post#250465
Out of 48 teams in the five Northeastern midmajor conferences, Bucknell is 5th in average attendance this year. The four ahead of them are all in MUCH larger population areas and/or are much larger schools. While we'd obviously like to see the Bucknell attendance be higher, in an era of declining attendances, BU has done fairly well. I'd guess the Bucknell student attendance is also higher than the great majority of these schools - even though it has declined from its peak. The figures, which obviously include a lot of fans masquerading as empty seats at certain schools:
Siena . 5968
Penn . 3383
Vermont . 2838
Binghamton . 2623
Bucknell . 2558
Albany . 2517
Monmouth . 2367
Mt. St. Mary's . 2165
Stony Brook . 2115
Princeton . 2005
Holy Cross . 1641
Iona . 1638
Quinnipiac . 1588
Columbia . 1587
Navy . 1580
Rider . 1521
Harvard . 1499
CCSU . 1428
Hartford . 1387
Fairfield . 1348
Cornell . 1347
Lafayette . 1327
Wagner . 1327
Canisius . 1312
Yale . 1273
Army West Point . 1253
Marist . 1224
UMass Lowell . 1120
Manhattan . 1095
Niagara . 1082
Lehigh . 1076
UMBC . 1060
Maine . 1029
LIU . 975
Dartmouth . 897
Brown . 857
St. Francis (PA) . 816
Robert Morris . 766
American . 761
Loyola Maryland . 700
Boston University . 694
Saint Peter's . 650
Bryant . 635
Colgate . 611
New Hampshire . 481
Fairleigh Dickinson . 465
St. Francis (NY) . 459
Sacred Heart . 443
For those who don't know the Siena story, it is in a unique position. First, it has a taxpayer-funded arena that can seat up to 15,000 if all seats are sold. Also there is no competition for the sports dollar, as Albany has no pro teams and the nearest NBA/NHL teams are 3+ hours away. Further, there is an amazing amount of money slogging around in Albany, with it being the capital of the state with the second largest budget in the country - not only state money but also lobbyists and service companies. Siena's attendance got as high as 7850 back in 2010, in an era when the team was very successful, but has been gradually declining since then. With this year's dismal performance I imagine another big drop is likely.
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BisonRoadWarrior
Professor
Posts: 5203
Loc: Where the Bison Roam
Reg: 08-16-06
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03-03-18 05:01 PM - Post#250467
In response to Bison137
Very interesting post, thanks!
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MrPhillie
Postdoc
Posts: 2757
Loc: NE PA
Reg: 07-14-08
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03-03-18 05:18 PM - Post#250470
In response to BisonRoadWarrior
Poor Sacred Heart.
As much as I complain about the quietness of the Bucknell crowds and lack of students, Sojka really is a decent atmosphere. The bulk of the community fans will never be boisterous on even the slightest level, but that is still far better than having empty seats. I see the players get a bit upset sometimes because the fans aren’t loud, but still, better than an empty arena. If students ever decide to support the team like back in the 2004-7 years, then Sojka is an awesome atmosphere. One complaint is the sound system stinks as far as understanding what is being said by any of the “Whig meister†type of people.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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03-03-18 08:38 PM - Post#250537
In response to MrPhillie
I'm surprised Siena's attendance is so much higher than Albany's, which has had better teams recently. Also, surprised Binghamton's is that high. Do you know the capacity of Vermont's gym. It can't be much more than 3000, which makes their numbers quite impressive.
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-03-18 09:23 PM - Post#250570
In response to jkrun80
You hit it right on for Vt’s gym. 3,286 is the capacity.
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jkrun80
Postdoc
Posts: 3305
Age: 65
Reg: 05-07-12
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03-03-18 09:37 PM - Post#250586
In response to bison63
You hit it right on for Vt’s gym. 3,286 is the capacity.
I've watched a couple of their games this year and the place always seems packed. What better way to spend those long Vermont winter nights?
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-03-18 09:45 PM - Post#250597
In response to jkrun80
I'm surprised Siena's attendance is so much higher than Albany's, which has had better teams recently. Also, surprised Binghamton's is that high.
Siena has always been viewed as the #1 team in Albany, with UAlbany a distant #2. I think there are at least two reasons:
(1) Siena plays in the huge, modern Times Union Center while Albany plays in the older 4500 seat SEFCU Arena. The TUC is in the downtown area, near the massive Rockefeller Empire State Plaza, with its 12,000 employees, and the NY Capital building - and with a lot of restaurants nearby. The SEFCU is on the Albany campus, nowhere near downtown; and
(2) SUNY Albany didn't become a D1 program until 2000, so Siena owned the market for a decade or two prior to that. Even with Albany having been better in recent years, it hasn't changed - although the needle has moved a bit. If Siena continues to be terrible - and they may if Patsos stays - Albany will make up some more ground.
As for Binghamton, it has always had great community support. Kind of like Lewisburg's support for the Bison, but in a significantly more populous area. Most of their attendance is not students. It is amazing how much support they still have given a decade of horrible basketball, which followed the Kevin Broadus scandals.
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HuskyColonial
PhD Student
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Age: 50
Reg: 02-17-12
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03-03-18 10:00 PM - Post#250613
In response to Bison137
My nephew attends RPI in Troy and has said many times the popularity of RPI ice hockey amazes him. Your Siena explanation helps explain for me. Location and money.
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DoCtoR62
Masters Student
Posts: 463
Reg: 05-18-08
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03-04-18 10:20 AM - Post#250712
In response to Bison137
Siena has always been viewed as the #1 team in Albany, with UAlbany a distant #2. I think there are at least two reasons:
(1) Siena plays in the huge, modern Times Union Center while Albany plays in the older 4500 seat SEFCU Arena. The TUC is in the downtown area, near the massive Rockefeller Empire State Plaza, with its 12,000 employees, and the NY Capital building - and with a lot of restaurants nearby. The SEFCU is on the Albany campus, nowhere near downtown; and
(2) SUNY Albany didn't become a D1 program until 2000, so Siena owned the market for a decade or two prior to that. Even with Albany having been better in recent years, it hasn't changed - although the needle has moved a bit. If Siena continues to be terrible - and they may if Patsos stays - Albany will make up some more ground.
All of which has culminated in a major controversy that threatens the future of their rivalry. They've played each other since 2001. Siena won 8 of the first 9, and Albany has won 7 of the last 9. Only one of those games (2016-17) has been played at Albany. Initially, Albany was willing to play all of the games at the Times Union Center as it was trying to build its program from D1 infancy. Now that they "have arrived" they believe it should be a home-and-home series. Siena isn't willing, saying they can accommodate much more of the Albany fan base than Albany can accommodate their fans in their smaller arena. Of course, Albany believes its all about wins and losses and that Siena cannot afford to continue to lose to them. Supposedly, there have been several meetings this winter but still nothing settled.
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HoleinOne
Masters Student
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Loc: Bluffton, SC
Reg: 02-15-09
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Re: Attendance in Northeast Midmajor Conferences
03-04-18 10:27 AM - Post#250714
In response to Bison137
Great post. Very interesting. Always amazed that Boston University, with approx. 40,000 students, can't draw more than 700 a game. With all due respect to a good school in one of my favorite cities, why would recruits want to play in a tiny gym that is often empty.
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DoCtoR62
Masters Student
Posts: 463
Reg: 05-18-08
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Re: Attendance in Northeast Midmajor Conferences
03-05-18 09:42 AM - Post#250876
In response to HoleinOne
Great post. Very interesting. Always amazed that Boston University, with approx. 40,000 students, can't draw more than 700 a game. With all due respect to a good school in one of my favorite cities, why would recruits want to play in a tiny gym that is often empty.
Agreed. Very noticeable on the list (at least to me) is that the Northeast Conference has the 3 bottom schools and 7 of the bottom 15. No surprise that it is the conference that has been hit the hardest by "up transfers" the last few years. It has to be depressing playing in front of empty wooden bleachers every night. Mount St. Mary's, the top draw in the NEC, is, I believe, the only school on this list w/ average attendance > enrollment which speaks to its local fan base that is similar to Bucknell's.
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Shot Clock
Masters Student
Posts: 883
Loc: Arlington VA
Reg: 01-27-06
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Re: Attendance in Northeast Midmajor Conferences
03-05-18 10:54 AM - Post#250884
In response to HoleinOne
Great post. Very interesting. Always amazed that Boston University, with approx. 40,000 students, can't draw more than 700 a game. With all due respect to a good school in one of my favorite cities, why would recruits want to play in a tiny gym that is often empty.
I'm not. It's no secret that Boston (with the exception of college hockey) is a terrible college sports town.
| B.A. Bucknell University, 1993 |
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bison63
Postdoc
Posts: 3857
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-05-18 11:09 AM - Post#250890
In response to Shot Clock
I guess the CAA is not considered an NE conference, but I’d be curious as to where Hofstra fit on the attendance chart.
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DoCtoR62
Masters Student
Posts: 463
Reg: 05-18-08
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03-05-18 11:17 AM - Post#250892
In response to bison63
I guess the CAA is not considered an NE conference, but I’d be curious as to where Hofstra fit on the attendance chart.
For the CAA schools that were at one time affiliated with a conference in this region:
Delaware - 2176
Hofstra - 1854
Towson - 1825
Northeastern - 1328
Drexel - 1094
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-05-18 11:33 AM - Post#250898
In response to DoCtoR62
The above are the attendances from 2016-17. For 2017-18, it is:
Delaware - 2713
Hofstra - 1832
Towson - 1564
Northeastern - 1142
Drexel - 989
All five are in heavily populated area, and three had good seasons - Northeastern, Hofstra, and Towson - and yet terrible attendance.
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dirtynine
Sophomore
Posts: 127
Reg: 02-01-06
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Attendance in Northeast Midmajor Conferences
03-05-18 02:06 PM - Post#250915
In response to Bison137
Just to elaborate on Siena - I grew up in the Albany area during Siena's arguable heyday, the late 80s to early 90s. I was a Siena diehard. Albany / the so-called Capital District is under-represented on the national scale. No major pro sports teams, no real distinct national identity as a region - but it's full of proud people that share a lot of common bonds. As a result, anything that gives the area a reason to feel "big league" gets everybody fired up. In the early 90s that was Siena basketball (and, believe it or not, Albany Firebirds arena football, but that's another story.) The glow from RPI's hockey success in the 80s was fading, UAlbany had yet to arrive in D-1, and Union hockey was also nowhere near a successful program yet. But Siena (and the Firebirds) would routinely sell out the then Knick Arena, now Times Union Center, which was also new (and felt big-league) at the time.
Siena made the D-1 NCAA tourney in '89 and beat Stanford which is a major memory from my youth. It was a Thursday afternoon game and teachers had it on at school. In subsequent years lost they lots of close games in the MAAC tournament (which was usually played in Albany, for attendance reasons) and missed out on NCAA auto-bids in excruciating ways. La Salle was in the MAAC then and had a top 20 program, so they dominated and broke Siena's heart a few times. Loyola and Iona were also big rivals.
Then the Saints made the '94 NIT (I thought they'd get an at-large bid to the dance, and got dejected when they didn't). They hosted and beat Georgia Tech in a crazy atmosphere in Albany. After a few more wins, they made it to MSG. Amtrak chartered special trains down from Albany to NYC for fans. It was an honest-to-god phenomenon locally. And this was for the NIT! (They finished third.) They have had intermittent success since, especially in the late 00s, and I still pull for them, but Bucknell has since taken over as my college basketball obsession. There were a few years there, when I was a freshman/sophomore at Bucknell in the late 90s, when I still pulled for Siena harder than the Bison, but that had flipped by the end of school.
Anyway, give the Albany area a reason to root for something and they will go way overboard. Siena is a big beneficiary of this. There are tons of fans that have no formal affiliation with the school at all - it's the just the most "national" local team.
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Bison137
Professor
Posts: 16147
Reg: 01-23-06
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03-05-18 02:38 PM - Post#250919
In response to dirtynine
Thanks for that Siena background. For those who don't follow Siena much, it says something about their program that they have had five big name coaches who ended up with high-level jobs:
- John Griffin: left for job in the financial sector and then returned to coach St. Joes.
- Mike Deane: left to take the job at Marquette.
- Paul Hewitt: left for the Georgia Tech job.
- Louis Orr: left for the Seton Hall job.
- Fran McCaffery: left to become head coach at Iowa.
They have had a few duds as well, but have been quick to fire them - at least until Patsos. Bob Beyer, Rob Lanier, and Mitch Buonaguro all were out fairly quickly after dismal W-L records.
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