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Username Post: NIT Bid        (Topic#21265)
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
03-03-18 08:10 PM - Post#250519    

If both Harvard and Penn end the season 12-2 does this ensure that one of the two will get a bid to the NITs? What happens if neither team wins the Ivy tournament, does the higher seeded team get a bid or will some other method be used like higher RPI?

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11367

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: NIT Bid
03-03-18 08:34 PM - Post#250536    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

Harvard gets the NIT bid since it wins the tiebreaker vs Penn.

This is what I was afraid of this year--a potential 23-9 Penn team might not have the chance to make any postseason tourney.

  • Big R&B Truth Said:
If both Harvard and Penn end the season 12-2 does this ensure that one of the two will get a bid to the NITs? What happens if neither team wins the Ivy tournament, does the higher seeded team get a bid or will some other method be used like higher RPI?




 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18825

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: NIT Bid
03-03-18 10:13 PM - Post#250629    
    In response to penn nation

Only if Harvard is declared the champion does it get the bid. I don't recall hearing that the Ivies have changed the long time rule that both teams which tie are declared co-champions. Unless it has changed, the league is not assured of an NIT bid.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
03-03-18 10:21 PM - Post#250633    
    In response to palestra38

I believe Harvard, as the 1 seed, gets an NIT bid as a consolation prize after they lose to Penn next Sunday.

 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 471

Reg: 11-22-04
03-03-18 10:31 PM - Post#250638    
    In response to PennFan10

Don't jump to conclusions- maybe they'll lose to Cornell! They went 2OT in Cambridge last night.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1785

Reg: 02-15-15
03-03-18 10:34 PM - Post#250641    
    In response to LyleGold

Don't think it matters. I think they get NIT or NCAA regardless.

 
LyleGold 
Masters Student
Posts: 471

Reg: 11-22-04
NIT Bid
03-03-18 10:39 PM - Post#250644    
    In response to PennFan10

I know. I was just saying Harvard might lose to Cornell before they can lose to us. They are welcome to the NIT bid either way.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18825

Reg: 11-21-04
NIT Bid
03-03-18 11:04 PM - Post#250650    
    In response to PennFan10

Again, they have to be declared the champion in order to get the bid. Unless you have seen somewhere that the Ivy first seed gets the bid, then the Ivies won't get an NIT bid in the case of a tie (or Penn gets it if it loses, as well, which I do not believe is the case).

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1112

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-03-18 11:14 PM - Post#250654    
    In response to palestra38

Harvard received the Ivy League Trophy at Lavietes tonight because they won tie breaker over Penn.

Hopefully, aggressive OOC scheduling will have the Crimson ready for NIT or NCAA. Wonderful coaching by Amaker to overcome absences of top two point guards.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18825

Reg: 11-21-04
03-03-18 11:31 PM - Post#250655    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Please provide a link to proof of this. I don't recall any change in the Ivy rule that ties are co-champions. That's why Yale did not get an NIT bid in '15.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2397
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 03:26 AM - Post#250686    
    In response to palestra38

Believe Penn and Harvard are Co-Champions by Ivy League rules, but Mike James pointed out on Twitter that the NIT bid is only guaranteed to the 1 seed if they lose by NIT/NCAA rules.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 07:31 AM - Post#250692    
    In response to Mike Porter

The two issues are separate. Yale didn’t get an NIT bid because no team was established as a one-seed, not due to the co-champs distinction. Now we establish a one-seed, so we do get the auto-bid to the NIT. Doesn’t matter if we call our tied leaders co-champs or not. Just need to establish a 1-seed to get the bid.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3777

Reg: 11-22-04
03-04-18 07:34 AM - Post#250693    
    In response to mrjames

when you say that the auto bid was the only way to get the bid, did you mean that's the only possible way to get a bid ever for the Ivies or just that practically speaking this year, no Ivy would have a good enough resume to qualify for an at large- NIT bid?

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 07:58 AM - Post#250695    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Correct - this year. The Yale exclusion in 2015 was pretty shocking, but Princeton got it the next year. But this year... no profiles close to NIT caliber (which is basically the next 20-25 teams off the bubble).

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 428

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
NIT Bid
03-04-18 11:26 AM - Post#250728    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
Yale didn’t get an NIT bid because no team was established as a one-seed, not due to the co-champs distinction.



Pretty sure this happened to the women as well a couple of years earlier. We had a three-way tie and Dartmouth ended up on top to go to the NCAA. The other two (can't remember who they were) saw their seasons end.

Edited by Go Green on 03-04-18 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
03-04-18 12:32 PM - Post#250737    
    In response to mrjames

Is the NIT as profile conscious as the NCAA (not that it is always obvious how the NCAA decides)? Despite RPI/Pomeroy/SOS, I could see a conference co-champ with 23 wins having an appeal.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 01:16 PM - Post#250742    
    In response to SomeGuy

It's even worse for mids, if possible. That Yale team was 64th in RPI, had an 11-6 road record, 95 NCSOS, 109 overall SOS and was 3-4 vs. 51-100 ranked teams. And it got passed over for an Alabama team that was 85 in the RPI, 4-7 road, had a 141 NCSOS and was 1-7 vs. RPI Top 50 and just 4-5 vs. 51-100.

In fact, these days that win at Harvard would have been a Quad1 win for that Yale team, matching the number that Alabama had in 8 tries, despite only having 3.

Sadly I don't hold out a lot of hope for the NIT. I would suspect that Penn would enter one of the other tourneys, though, in a way that Harvard, Princeton and Yale have started to waver a bit on in recent years.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4605

Reg: 11-22-04
03-04-18 01:26 PM - Post#250744    
    In response to mrjames

Got it. I always presumed Yale’s situation there was about timing and not that they actually got passed over. But if they did, agreed that Penn this year would have no shot.

I also think you are right that Penn will play postseason basketball, one way or another. It’s different from some of the other schools where they’ve done it before, etc. I think Penn will both want to get the seniors the extra game(s), and get some experience for the future.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 428

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
03-04-18 02:24 PM - Post#250750    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
It's even worse for mids, if possible. That Yale team was 64th in RPI, had an 11-6 road record, 95 NCSOS, 109 overall SOS and was 3-4 vs. 51-100 ranked teams. And it got passed over for an Alabama team that was 85 in the RPI, 4-7 road, had a 141 NCSOS and was 1-7 vs. RPI Top 50 and just 4-5 vs. 51-100.





For comparison, what was the resume of 1999 Princeton?


 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 02:49 PM - Post#250761    
    In response to Go Green

Different era NIT, since they didn’t auto-bid regular season champs who lost in their tourneys,


 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2272

Reg: 11-23-04
03-04-18 03:05 PM - Post#250769    
    In response to Chip Bayers

So, won't it be great when Cornell and Yale face off for the tourney final and NCAA bid? Then the NIT can have its choice of harvard and the quackers

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 03:07 PM - Post#250770    
    In response to Tiger69

Someone hasn’t been following along.


 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11367

Reg: 12-02-04
03-04-18 03:08 PM - Post#250771    
    In response to Tiger69

My, those grapes are sour.

Have fun out on the golf course!

 
Streamers 
Postdoc
Posts: 2555
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 03:14 PM - Post#250775    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
It's even worse for mids, if possible. That Yale team was 64th in RPI, had an 11-6 road record, 95 NCSOS, 109 overall SOS and was 3-4 vs. 51-100 ranked teams. And it got passed over for an Alabama team that was 85 in the RPI, 4-7 road, had a 141 NCSOS and was 1-7 vs. RPI Top 50 and just 4-5 vs. 51-100.

In fact, these days that win at Harvard would have been a Quad1 win for that Yale team, matching the number that Alabama had in 8 tries, despite only having 3.

Sadly I don't hold out a lot of hope for the NIT. I would suspect that Penn would enter one of the other tourneys, though, in a way that Harvard, Princeton and Yale have started to waver a bit on in recent years.



I guess for some odd reason I thought a Penn team with this record might have an at-large shot if they don't win next weekend. I know better now, sadly. I'm not a fan of those minor tournaments though. I would not be upset if they shunned them (unless we got home game, that might change my mind)

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 03:31 PM - Post#250779    
    In response to Streamers

The extra practice time with the players you have returning next year can help, can’t it?


 
JDP 
Junior
Posts: 225

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: NIT Rule Changes to check out
03-04-18 03:32 PM - Post#250780    
    In response to Streamers

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/a rticle/2...

Perhaps some schools will not want to pay for the redo to their courts ... alowing lower ranked teams entry

Not sure how helpful evalating moving the 3 point line back 1 foot 8 inches to FIFA distance will be, as this will likely change many teams strategies and it take time to implement a new approach ..

Not sure if this will impact the women’s NIT as well.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2272

Reg: 11-23-04
NIT Bid
03-04-18 05:51 PM - Post#250820    
    In response to penn nation

No sour grapes here, PN. Sorry you misunderstood my post. I've learned that life does not always guarantee second chances and that part of it involves learning how to accept defeat and, hopefully, learn from it. Actually, I feel that harvard/quackers should not have to go through the prelims to prove once again that they are worthy champions. Instead of the tourney we should have a one game playoff to determine both the Champion and the NCAA bid. So, congratulations quackers and cantabs on fine seasons. I wish you well IF you have post seasons.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5237

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 06:00 PM - Post#250824    
    In response to Streamers

Home games are expensive (used to be $60K for CBI and $30K for CIT). Also used to be that the CBI would let you host for free if you agreed to be a “pod” participant in an auto-semis MTE (that is, you agree to go to someone else’s secondary site). Penn doesn’t have any MTEs to offer for a little while, so my presumption is that the Quakers would have to pony up to host.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
03-04-18 07:32 PM - Post#250832    
    In response to mrjames

They have done that before, maybe 5-6 Yes ago.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18825

Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 07:51 PM - Post#250833    
    In response to mrjames

CBI, CIT are the time shares of college basketball.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3440

Reg: 11-23-04
03-04-18 08:28 PM - Post#250837    
    In response to palestra38

Nice, P38!

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18825

Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 09:46 PM - Post#250841    
    In response to Old Bear

Didn't we have a bet on something....was it a Peppers and Egg sandwich in Federal Hill?

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3440

Reg: 11-23-04
03-05-18 09:23 AM - Post#250870    
    In response to palestra38

When ever you are able.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3521

Reg: 02-04-06
03-06-18 09:22 PM - Post#251142    
    In response to Old Bear

CBI can be fun. Princeton's crazy no-D game at Evansville a few years ago was memorable.

 
JadwinGeorge 
Junior
Posts: 274

Age: 70
Reg: 12-04-15
03-06-18 09:34 PM - Post#251146    
    In response to SRP

CBI is so much fun the team voted not to go after Hummer's senior season. Although he voted to go.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3521

Reg: 02-04-06
03-07-18 01:43 PM - Post#251222    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

Fun for us.

 
Charlie Fog 
Masters Student
Posts: 437

Age: 49
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
03-08-18 02:39 PM - Post#251399    
    In response to SRP

when Penn played Butler at the palestra in the CBI it had a B league NBA feel to it. No defense.

 
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