Big R&B Truth
Masters Student
Posts: 427
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
|
03-03-18 08:10 PM - Post#250519
If both Harvard and Penn end the season 12-2 does this ensure that one of the two will get a bid to the NITs? What happens if neither team wins the Ivy tournament, does the higher seeded team get a bid or will some other method be used like higher RPI?
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
|
Re: NIT Bid 03-03-18 08:34 PM - Post#250536
In response to Big R&B Truth
Harvard gets the NIT bid since it wins the tiebreaker vs Penn.
This is what I was afraid of this year--a potential 23-9 Penn team might not have the chance to make any postseason tourney.
If both Harvard and Penn end the season 12-2 does this ensure that one of the two will get a bid to the NITs? What happens if neither team wins the Ivy tournament, does the higher seeded team get a bid or will some other method be used like higher RPI?
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: NIT Bid 03-03-18 10:13 PM - Post#250629
In response to penn nation
Only if Harvard is declared the champion does it get the bid. I don't recall hearing that the Ivies have changed the long time rule that both teams which tie are declared co-champions. Unless it has changed, the league is not assured of an NIT bid.
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
|
03-03-18 10:21 PM - Post#250633
In response to palestra38
I believe Harvard, as the 1 seed, gets an NIT bid as a consolation prize after they lose to Penn next Sunday.
|
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-03-18 10:31 PM - Post#250638
In response to PennFan10
Don't jump to conclusions- maybe they'll lose to Cornell! They went 2OT in Cambridge last night.
|
PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
|
03-03-18 10:34 PM - Post#250641
In response to LyleGold
Don't think it matters. I think they get NIT or NCAA regardless.
|
LyleGold
PhD Student
Posts: 1712
Reg: 11-22-04
|
NIT Bid 03-03-18 10:39 PM - Post#250644
In response to PennFan10
I know. I was just saying Harvard might lose to Cornell before they can lose to us. They are welcome to the NIT bid either way.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
NIT Bid 03-03-18 11:04 PM - Post#250650
In response to PennFan10
Again, they have to be declared the champion in order to get the bid. Unless you have seen somewhere that the Ivy first seed gets the bid, then the Ivies won't get an NIT bid in the case of a tie (or Penn gets it if it loses, as well, which I do not believe is the case).
|
HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
|
03-03-18 11:14 PM - Post#250654
In response to palestra38
Harvard received the Ivy League Trophy at Lavietes tonight because they won tie breaker over Penn.
Hopefully, aggressive OOC scheduling will have the Crimson ready for NIT or NCAA. Wonderful coaching by Amaker to overcome absences of top two point guards.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-03-18 11:31 PM - Post#250655
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Please provide a link to proof of this. I don't recall any change in the Ivy rule that ties are co-champions. That's why Yale did not get an NIT bid in '15.
|
Mike Porter
Postdoc
Posts: 3618
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 03:26 AM - Post#250686
In response to palestra38
Believe Penn and Harvard are Co-Champions by Ivy League rules, but Mike James pointed out on Twitter that the NIT bid is only guaranteed to the 1 seed if they lose by NIT/NCAA rules.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 07:31 AM - Post#250692
In response to Mike Porter
The two issues are separate. Yale didn’t get an NIT bid because no team was established as a one-seed, not due to the co-champs distinction. Now we establish a one-seed, so we do get the auto-bid to the NIT. Doesn’t matter if we call our tied leaders co-champs or not. Just need to establish a 1-seed to get the bid.
|
Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-04-18 07:34 AM - Post#250693
In response to mrjames
when you say that the auto bid was the only way to get the bid, did you mean that's the only possible way to get a bid ever for the Ivies or just that practically speaking this year, no Ivy would have a good enough resume to qualify for an at large- NIT bid?
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 07:58 AM - Post#250695
In response to Jeff2sf
Correct - this year. The Yale exclusion in 2015 was pretty shocking, but Princeton got it the next year. But this year... no profiles close to NIT caliber (which is basically the next 20-25 teams off the bubble).
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1145
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
NIT Bid 03-04-18 11:26 AM - Post#250728
In response to mrjames
Yale didn’t get an NIT bid because no team was established as a one-seed, not due to the co-champs distinction.
Pretty sure this happened to the women as well a couple of years earlier. We had a three-way tie and Dartmouth ended up on top to go to the NCAA. The other two (can't remember who they were) saw their seasons end.
Edited by Go Green on 03-04-18 11:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-04-18 12:32 PM - Post#250737
In response to mrjames
Is the NIT as profile conscious as the NCAA (not that it is always obvious how the NCAA decides)? Despite RPI/Pomeroy/SOS, I could see a conference co-champ with 23 wins having an appeal.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 01:16 PM - Post#250742
In response to SomeGuy
It's even worse for mids, if possible. That Yale team was 64th in RPI, had an 11-6 road record, 95 NCSOS, 109 overall SOS and was 3-4 vs. 51-100 ranked teams. And it got passed over for an Alabama team that was 85 in the RPI, 4-7 road, had a 141 NCSOS and was 1-7 vs. RPI Top 50 and just 4-5 vs. 51-100.
In fact, these days that win at Harvard would have been a Quad1 win for that Yale team, matching the number that Alabama had in 8 tries, despite only having 3.
Sadly I don't hold out a lot of hope for the NIT. I would suspect that Penn would enter one of the other tourneys, though, in a way that Harvard, Princeton and Yale have started to waver a bit on in recent years.
|
SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
|
03-04-18 01:26 PM - Post#250744
In response to mrjames
Got it. I always presumed Yale’s situation there was about timing and not that they actually got passed over. But if they did, agreed that Penn this year would have no shot.
I also think you are right that Penn will play postseason basketball, one way or another. It’s different from some of the other schools where they’ve done it before, etc. I think Penn will both want to get the seniors the extra game(s), and get some experience for the future.
|
Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1145
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
|
03-04-18 02:24 PM - Post#250750
In response to mrjames
It's even worse for mids, if possible. That Yale team was 64th in RPI, had an 11-6 road record, 95 NCSOS, 109 overall SOS and was 3-4 vs. 51-100 ranked teams. And it got passed over for an Alabama team that was 85 in the RPI, 4-7 road, had a 141 NCSOS and was 1-7 vs. RPI Top 50 and just 4-5 vs. 51-100.
For comparison, what was the resume of 1999 Princeton?
|
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 02:49 PM - Post#250761
In response to Go Green
Different era NIT, since they didn’t auto-bid regular season champs who lost in their tourneys,
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
03-04-18 03:05 PM - Post#250769
In response to Chip Bayers
So, won't it be great when Cornell and Yale face off for the tourney final and NCAA bid? Then the NIT can have its choice of harvard and the quackers
|
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 03:07 PM - Post#250770
In response to Tiger69
Someone hasn’t been following along.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
|
03-04-18 03:08 PM - Post#250771
In response to Tiger69
My, those grapes are sour.
Have fun out on the golf course!
|
Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 03:14 PM - Post#250775
In response to mrjames
It's even worse for mids, if possible. That Yale team was 64th in RPI, had an 11-6 road record, 95 NCSOS, 109 overall SOS and was 3-4 vs. 51-100 ranked teams. And it got passed over for an Alabama team that was 85 in the RPI, 4-7 road, had a 141 NCSOS and was 1-7 vs. RPI Top 50 and just 4-5 vs. 51-100.
In fact, these days that win at Harvard would have been a Quad1 win for that Yale team, matching the number that Alabama had in 8 tries, despite only having 3.
Sadly I don't hold out a lot of hope for the NIT. I would suspect that Penn would enter one of the other tourneys, though, in a way that Harvard, Princeton and Yale have started to waver a bit on in recent years.
I guess for some odd reason I thought a Penn team with this record might have an at-large shot if they don't win next weekend. I know better now, sadly. I'm not a fan of those minor tournaments though. I would not be upset if they shunned them (unless we got home game, that might change my mind)
|
Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 03:31 PM - Post#250779
In response to Streamers
The extra practice time with the players you have returning next year can help, can’t it?
|
JDP
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-23-04
|
Re: NIT Rule Changes to check out 03-04-18 03:32 PM - Post#250780
In response to Streamers
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/a rticle/2...
Perhaps some schools will not want to pay for the redo to their courts ... alowing lower ranked teams entry
Not sure how helpful evalating moving the 3 point line back 1 foot 8 inches to FIFA distance will be, as this will likely change many teams strategies and it take time to implement a new approach ..
Not sure if this will impact the women’s NIT as well.
|
Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
|
NIT Bid 03-04-18 05:51 PM - Post#250820
In response to penn nation
No sour grapes here, PN. Sorry you misunderstood my post. I've learned that life does not always guarantee second chances and that part of it involves learning how to accept defeat and, hopefully, learn from it. Actually, I feel that harvard/quackers should not have to go through the prelims to prove once again that they are worthy champions. Instead of the tourney we should have a one game playoff to determine both the Champion and the NCAA bid. So, congratulations quackers and cantabs on fine seasons. I wish you well IF you have post seasons.
|
mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 06:00 PM - Post#250824
In response to Streamers
Home games are expensive (used to be $60K for CBI and $30K for CIT). Also used to be that the CBI would let you host for free if you agreed to be a “pod†participant in an auto-semis MTE (that is, you agree to go to someone else’s secondary site). Penn doesn’t have any MTEs to offer for a little while, so my presumption is that the Quakers would have to pony up to host.
|
JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
|
03-04-18 07:32 PM - Post#250832
In response to mrjames
They have done that before, maybe 5-6 Yes ago.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 07:51 PM - Post#250833
In response to mrjames
CBI, CIT are the time shares of college basketball.
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3992
Reg: 11-23-04
|
03-04-18 08:28 PM - Post#250837
In response to palestra38
Nice, P38!
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
|
03-04-18 09:46 PM - Post#250841
In response to Old Bear
Didn't we have a bet on something....was it a Peppers and Egg sandwich in Federal Hill?
|
Old Bear
Postdoc
Posts: 3992
Reg: 11-23-04
|
03-05-18 09:23 AM - Post#250870
In response to palestra38
When ever you are able.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
03-06-18 09:22 PM - Post#251142
In response to Old Bear
CBI can be fun. Princeton's crazy no-D game at Evansville a few years ago was memorable.
|
JadwinGeorge
Senior
Posts: 357
Age: 75
Reg: 12-04-15
|
03-06-18 09:34 PM - Post#251146
In response to SRP
CBI is so much fun the team voted not to go after Hummer's senior season. Although he voted to go.
|
SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
|
03-07-18 01:43 PM - Post#251222
In response to JadwinGeorge
Fun for us.
|
Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
|
03-08-18 02:39 PM - Post#251399
In response to SRP
when Penn played Butler at the palestra in the CBI it had a B league NBA feel to it. No defense.
|