mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-07-18 01:54 PM - Post#251233
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Penn was Foreman, Harvard was Bassey.
Along with Bell, two other teams put up candidates.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-07-18 01:56 PM - Post#251234
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
As I have mentioned, coaches vote for whom each coach nominates and lobby's for. If Lewis wasn't on the ballot it's because Amaker didn't nominate him. In order to get any post season award, you have to win over your own coach first. And in some cases, coaches have to pick whom they will nominate. Amaker may well have chosen Bassey as his nominee for POY. And it could have been that Donahue pushed Brodeur and the two of them split votes such that Amir Bell won. It could be there was a majority for Bell, which seems less likely, but I don't know.
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mrjames
Professor
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Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-07-18 01:57 PM - Post#251235
In response to penn nation
I don't believe there are any restrictions like that on who you can put up, except that each team puts up one (or none). I can see why Harvard put up Bassey over Lewis, though either would have been a great candidate. For Penn, if anyone, I would have expected Max or Woods over AJ before Foreman. So, I'm not exactly sure what Penn was doing other than maybe trying to honor a senior?
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PennFan10
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Reg: 02-15-15
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All-Ivy Picks 03-07-18 01:58 PM - Post#251236
In response to penn nation
Lewis not being on the ballot was a big factor...
So how this work? You're not allowed to nominate a player for more than a certain number of categories?
I don't know the specifics, but practically if Amaker nominates both Lewis and Bassey, they would share the vote from other coaches and neither would get it. He has to pick one to push.
It could be, as MJ points out, that coaches nominate the wrong guy. If SD nominated Max or Antonio, instead of AJ, coaches may well have picked Bell over those choices. Or AJ/Bassey could have stolen votes from each other and Bell ended up sneaking in.
Edited by PennFan10 on 03-07-18 02:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
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Loc: New Jersey
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03-07-18 01:58 PM - Post#251238
In response to PennFan10
Thanks for the confirmation. Hard to get votes if your own coach doesn't nominate you.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: All-Ivy Picks 03-07-18 02:00 PM - Post#251239
In response to PennFan10
Interesting. Not sure the correct outcome resulted here, though. That's a strange pick as the best defensive player for the whole league.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All-Ivy Picks 03-07-18 02:04 PM - Post#251242
In response to penn nation
Yeah, it definitely wasn't the right outcome generally. Given the options, though, you could see how you'd end up there...
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whitakk
Masters Student
Posts: 523
Age: 32
Reg: 11-11-14
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03-07-18 02:05 PM - Post#251244
In response to mrjames
I don't believe there are any restrictions like that on who you can put up, except that each team puts up one (or none). I can see why Harvard put up Bassey over Lewis, though either would have been a great candidate. For Penn, if anyone, I would have expected Max or Woods over AJ before Foreman. So, I'm not exactly sure what Penn was doing other than maybe trying to honor a senior?
Donahue has talked up Foreman's defense a lot this season. (I think I recall one quote about him being one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, maybe the best, but I can't find it now.) Being a senior might have pushed him over the top but I think it's a belief they truly hold.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-07-18 02:06 PM - Post#251245
In response to mrjames
I would think the most likely occurrence is that AJ/Bassey split votes to allow Bell to win. If SD put up anyone else, Bassey would have easily won I would think.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21086
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-07-18 02:09 PM - Post#251246
In response to whitakk
For the first part of the year Foreman was very good at everything not involving shooting the actual ball. Then as the year progressed he got better and more efficient in that area as well.
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mrjames
Professor
Posts: 6062
Loc: Montclair, NJ
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03-07-18 02:11 PM - Post#251248
In response to PennFan10
AJ wasn't on the ballot. Was Foreman for Penn.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
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Reg: 02-15-15
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03-07-18 02:15 PM - Post#251250
In response to mrjames
Then I am surprised Bell won and not Bassey. Tells me Bassey and Foreman split the vote allowing Bell to take it.
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Streamers
Professor
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Loc: NW Philadelphia
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03-07-18 02:47 PM - Post#251258
In response to PennFan10
Dies anyone really think they got it wrong this year overall?
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rbg
Postdoc
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Reg: 10-20-14
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03-07-18 03:20 PM - Post#251268
In response to rbg
Women's All-Ivy was released early this afternoon
http://ivyleaguesports.com/news/2018/3/7/womens- ba...
Player of the Year: Bella Alarie (Princeton)
Defensive Player of the Year: Tamara Simpson (Yale) - second straight year winning this award
Rookie of the Year: Eleah Parker (Penn) - unanimous selection
Coach of the Year: Courtney Banghart (Princeton)
First Team (Expanded due to ties in voting):
Bella Alarie (Princeton)
Katie Benzan (Harvard) - unanimous selection
Jen Berkowitz (Yale)
Michelle Nwokedi (Penn)
Leslie Robinson (Princeton)
Camille Zimmerman (Columbia)
Second Team (Expanded due to ties in voting):
Jeannie Boehm (Harvard)
Kate Letkiewicz (Dartmouth)
Shayna Mehta (Brown)
Eleah Parker (Penn)
Taylor Rooks (Harvard)
Anna Ross (Penn)
Tamara Simpson (Yale)
Honorable Mention:
Justine Gaziano (Brown)
Roxy Barahman (Yale)
_____________________
Not much to argue with that expanded list.
I understand why Courtney Banghart won the Coach of the Year Award, but I'm disappointed that Coach Koclanes or Coach Guth did not win it. Princeton brought a very good team into the season, and although picked as the #2 team, it was only by nine points over Penn. She also had two of the league's best players and a very good recruiting class.
Coach Koclanes took a team that finished 3-11 (8-19) to 7-7 (15-12) with wins over Vermont, BC, New Hampshire, Colorado (road), Holy Cross (road), Harvard and Yale (road). Her team was picked a distant 8th this year and she managed to exceed expectations while giving the reigns to a junior point guard with limited experience.
Coach Guth's team finished in 6th place last year, but finished the season strong. They were also the only team to beat Penn last year. This year, they did return Berkowitz and Simpson, but they had to incorporate a number of inexperienced sophomores and first-years. They had good wins over TCU (road), Princeton and Harvard, while almost beating Kansas and Indiana. They ended the year as the #4 team in the Tournament.
While Brown's surprising collapsed following Taylor Will's injury may have given new life to Yale and Dartmouth, both coaches did a lot with more limited rosters than the Tigers. Last year Sarah Behn exceeded expectations with a inexperienced Bears' team, but Mike McLaughlin won the award. It seems really difficult for the other 5 coaches to break into the top 3 in terms of records and recognition.
I actually made a mistake in my list and should have placed Taylor Rooks as a 2nd team member. I was surprised to see Jeannie Boehm as a second team member. She is a very good player and her recovery from a knee injury late in the Penn game was a big part of their subsequent sweep of Penn & Princeton a few weeks later. I just thought that Rooks was the better and more consistent front court player and I thought Sydney Skinner would get more support.
I also thought that Justine Gaziano was ahead of Shayna Mehta. Both are big time scorers, but Mehta's efficiency suffered after Taylor Will suffered her season ending knee injury.
In the end, all were deserving recipients and there were even a few more good players who did not make it onto the list.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-08-18 12:56 AM - Post#251349
In response to mrjames
I don’t think there is any question that the staff thinks Foreman is the best perimeter defender on the team — he takes the best perimeter offensive player most of the time. Woods is stronger and thicker, so he can handle Towns (sort of), while Foreman can’t, but conversely you almost never see Woods guard the point, presumably because Foreman is better able to handle quickness. I also th8nk, particularly as the season went on, the eye test favors Foreman defensively as well.
So for me, Brodeur would have been first choice for DPOY from Penn, and Foreman 2nd.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
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Reg: 02-15-15
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03-08-18 02:17 AM - Post#251351
In response to SomeGuy
The Penn coaches are telling us Foreman is their best defensive player. I would be willing to bet Brodeur isn’t their second pick either.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
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03-08-18 10:27 AM - Post#251362
In response to PennFan10
From what I've seen, Brodeur is the team's best interior help defender. That's how he's gotten a majority of his blocked shots.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-08-18 09:29 PM - Post#251467
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Yes, I think this running debate between PF10 and me is at its core a debate about what makes a great defender.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3580
Reg: 02-15-15
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03-09-18 12:38 AM - Post#251476
In response to SomeGuy
That may well be, but we can agree that Darnell Foreman and AJ are very different defenders and both very good (since the coaches nominated Foreman for DPOY). Add Max and Antonio, who also have different skill sets and are great defenders, and you have a solid defensive team.
So we aren't really arguing that Foreman or AJ are not great defenders are we? Foreman can do things as an onball defender that AJ can't do and AJ can do things (rim protection) Foreman doesn't do. Similarly Max is different from AJ, not necessarily better or worse, different. I value the versatility Max and Antonio bring being able to guard 4-5 positions on the floor, and then I value rim protection. You value rim protection over all.
Nothing wrong with that.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
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03-09-18 02:57 PM - Post#251564
In response to PennFan10
I absolutely agree with you. I wasn't trying to make any sort of value judgment about the players' individual skills; the team needs all of those guys to bring what they do to the table in order for the defense to be successful.
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