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Username Post: All-Ivy Picks        (Topic#21266)
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-18 01:54 PM - Post#251233    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Penn was Foreman, Harvard was Bassey.

Along with Bell, two other teams put up candidates.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
03-07-18 01:56 PM - Post#251234    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

As I have mentioned, coaches vote for whom each coach nominates and lobby's for. If Lewis wasn't on the ballot it's because Amaker didn't nominate him. In order to get any post season award, you have to win over your own coach first. And in some cases, coaches have to pick whom they will nominate. Amaker may well have chosen Bassey as his nominee for POY. And it could have been that Donahue pushed Brodeur and the two of them split votes such that Amir Bell won. It could be there was a majority for Bell, which seems less likely, but I don't know.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-18 01:57 PM - Post#251235    
    In response to penn nation

I don't believe there are any restrictions like that on who you can put up, except that each team puts up one (or none). I can see why Harvard put up Bassey over Lewis, though either would have been a great candidate. For Penn, if anyone, I would have expected Max or Woods over AJ before Foreman. So, I'm not exactly sure what Penn was doing other than maybe trying to honor a senior?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
All-Ivy Picks
03-07-18 01:58 PM - Post#251236    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
  • mrjames Said:
Lewis not being on the ballot was a big factor...



So how this work? You're not allowed to nominate a player for more than a certain number of categories?





I don't know the specifics, but practically if Amaker nominates both Lewis and Bassey, they would share the vote from other coaches and neither would get it. He has to pick one to push.

It could be, as MJ points out, that coaches nominate the wrong guy. If SD nominated Max or Antonio, instead of AJ, coaches may well have picked Bell over those choices. Or AJ/Bassey could have stolen votes from each other and Bell ended up sneaking in.

Edited by PennFan10 on 03-07-18 02:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-07-18 01:58 PM - Post#251238    
    In response to PennFan10

Thanks for the confirmation. Hard to get votes if your own coach doesn't nominate you.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11270

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: All-Ivy Picks
03-07-18 02:00 PM - Post#251239    
    In response to PennFan10

Interesting. Not sure the correct outcome resulted here, though. That's a strange pick as the best defensive player for the whole league.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: All-Ivy Picks
03-07-18 02:04 PM - Post#251242    
    In response to penn nation

Yeah, it definitely wasn't the right outcome generally. Given the options, though, you could see how you'd end up there...

 
whitakk 
Junior
Posts: 214

Age: 27
Reg: 11-11-14
03-07-18 02:05 PM - Post#251244    
    In response to mrjames

  • mrjames Said:
I don't believe there are any restrictions like that on who you can put up, except that each team puts up one (or none). I can see why Harvard put up Bassey over Lewis, though either would have been a great candidate. For Penn, if anyone, I would have expected Max or Woods over AJ before Foreman. So, I'm not exactly sure what Penn was doing other than maybe trying to honor a senior?



Donahue has talked up Foreman's defense a lot this season. (I think I recall one quote about him being one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, maybe the best, but I can't find it now.) Being a senior might have pushed him over the top but I think it's a belief they truly hold.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
03-07-18 02:06 PM - Post#251245    
    In response to mrjames

I would think the most likely occurrence is that AJ/Bassey split votes to allow Bell to win. If SD put up anyone else, Bassey would have easily won I would think.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11270

Reg: 12-02-04
03-07-18 02:09 PM - Post#251246    
    In response to whitakk

For the first part of the year Foreman was very good at everything not involving shooting the actual ball. Then as the year progressed he got better and more efficient in that area as well.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-18 02:11 PM - Post#251248    
    In response to PennFan10

AJ wasn't on the ballot. Was Foreman for Penn.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
03-07-18 02:15 PM - Post#251250    
    In response to mrjames

Then I am surprised Bell won and not Bassey. Tells me Bassey and Foreman split the vote allowing Bell to take it.

 
Streamers 
Postdoc
Posts: 2390
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-07-18 02:47 PM - Post#251258    
    In response to PennFan10

Dies anyone really think they got it wrong this year overall?

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 774

Reg: 10-20-14
03-07-18 03:20 PM - Post#251268    
    In response to rbg

Women's All-Ivy was released early this afternoon

http://ivyleaguesports.com/news/2018/3/7/womens- ba...

Player of the Year: Bella Alarie (Princeton)
Defensive Player of the Year: Tamara Simpson (Yale) - second straight year winning this award
Rookie of the Year: Eleah Parker (Penn) - unanimous selection
Coach of the Year: Courtney Banghart (Princeton)

First Team (Expanded due to ties in voting):
Bella Alarie (Princeton)
Katie Benzan (Harvard) - unanimous selection
Jen Berkowitz (Yale)
Michelle Nwokedi (Penn)
Leslie Robinson (Princeton)
Camille Zimmerman (Columbia)

Second Team (Expanded due to ties in voting):
Jeannie Boehm (Harvard)
Kate Letkiewicz (Dartmouth)
Shayna Mehta (Brown)
Eleah Parker (Penn)
Taylor Rooks (Harvard)
Anna Ross (Penn)
Tamara Simpson (Yale)

Honorable Mention:
Justine Gaziano (Brown)
Roxy Barahman (Yale)

_____________________

Not much to argue with that expanded list.

I understand why Courtney Banghart won the Coach of the Year Award, but I'm disappointed that Coach Koclanes or Coach Guth did not win it. Princeton brought a very good team into the season, and although picked as the #2 team, it was only by nine points over Penn. She also had two of the league's best players and a very good recruiting class.

Coach Koclanes took a team that finished 3-11 (8-19) to 7-7 (15-12) with wins over Vermont, BC, New Hampshire, Colorado (road), Holy Cross (road), Harvard and Yale (road). Her team was picked a distant 8th this year and she managed to exceed expectations while giving the reigns to a junior point guard with limited experience.

Coach Guth's team finished in 6th place last year, but finished the season strong. They were also the only team to beat Penn last year. This year, they did return Berkowitz and Simpson, but they had to incorporate a number of inexperienced sophomores and first-years. They had good wins over TCU (road), Princeton and Harvard, while almost beating Kansas and Indiana. They ended the year as the #4 team in the Tournament.

While Brown's surprising collapsed following Taylor Will's injury may have given new life to Yale and Dartmouth, both coaches did a lot with more limited rosters than the Tigers. Last year Sarah Behn exceeded expectations with a inexperienced Bears' team, but Mike McLaughlin won the award. It seems really difficult for the other 5 coaches to break into the top 3 in terms of records and recognition.

I actually made a mistake in my list and should have placed Taylor Rooks as a 2nd team member. I was surprised to see Jeannie Boehm as a second team member. She is a very good player and her recovery from a knee injury late in the Penn game was a big part of their subsequent sweep of Penn & Princeton a few weeks later. I just thought that Rooks was the better and more consistent front court player and I thought Sydney Skinner would get more support.

I also thought that Justine Gaziano was ahead of Shayna Mehta. Both are big time scorers, but Mehta's efficiency suffered after Taylor Will suffered her season ending knee injury.

In the end, all were deserving recipients and there were even a few more good players who did not make it onto the list.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
03-08-18 12:56 AM - Post#251349    
    In response to mrjames

I don’t think there is any question that the staff thinks Foreman is the best perimeter defender on the team — he takes the best perimeter offensive player most of the time. Woods is stronger and thicker, so he can handle Towns (sort of), while Foreman can’t, but conversely you almost never see Woods guard the point, presumably because Foreman is better able to handle quickness. I also th8nk, particularly as the season went on, the eye test favors Foreman defensively as well.

So for me, Brodeur would have been first choice for DPOY from Penn, and Foreman 2nd.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
03-08-18 02:17 AM - Post#251351    
    In response to SomeGuy

The Penn coaches are telling us Foreman is their best defensive player. I would be willing to bet Brodeur isn’t their second pick either.

 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1025

Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
03-08-18 10:27 AM - Post#251362    
    In response to PennFan10

From what I've seen, Brodeur is the team's best interior help defender. That's how he's gotten a majority of his blocked shots.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4584

Reg: 11-22-04
03-08-18 09:29 PM - Post#251467    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Yes, I think this running debate between PF10 and me is at its core a debate about what makes a great defender.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
03-09-18 12:38 AM - Post#251476    
    In response to SomeGuy

That may well be, but we can agree that Darnell Foreman and AJ are very different defenders and both very good (since the coaches nominated Foreman for DPOY). Add Max and Antonio, who also have different skill sets and are great defenders, and you have a solid defensive team.

So we aren't really arguing that Foreman or AJ are not great defenders are we? Foreman can do things as an onball defender that AJ can't do and AJ can do things (rim protection) Foreman doesn't do. Similarly Max is different from AJ, not necessarily better or worse, different. I value the versatility Max and Antonio bring being able to guard 4-5 positions on the floor, and then I value rim protection. You value rim protection over all.

Nothing wrong with that.

 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1025

Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
03-09-18 02:57 PM - Post#251564    
    In response to PennFan10

I absolutely agree with you. I wasn't trying to make any sort of value judgment about the players' individual skills; the team needs all of those guys to bring what they do to the table in order for the defense to be successful.

 
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