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Username Post: Ivy League Champs!        (Topic#21267)
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-18 01:57 AM - Post#250681    

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/college s/penn-...

It seems as if much of Penn’s fan base is still in between-world thinking about how it all would have been under the old system. It’s a natural thing.

“It’s new for everybody,’’ Donahue said. “The traditionalists, I think, are confused. I’m 23 years in the league. You win this league, at 12-2, tied with anybody, that’s a hell of an accomplishment, and that’s why we hang the banner. That’s the Ivy League champ.

“We can worry about the tournament [now]. I never thought about the tournament. I wanted to win the championship, for these guys. It’s not about the legacy of the past. It’s about them having these incredible memories for themselves. It’s a round-robin, it’s as even as any league in the country. It’s back-to-back [games]. It’s a heck of an accomplishment.”


 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-18 02:06 AM - Post#250682    
    In response to PennFan10

https://twitter.com/pennathletics/status/ 970128437...

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
03-04-18 07:30 AM - Post#250691    
    In response to PennFan10

oh dear god, no one told me there would be empty arena cutting of nets.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32683

Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 08:40 AM - Post#250697    
    In response to Jeff2sf

They just showed it on Action News---Steve "could not be prouder" of his guys. Presumably, they will have it up on their website, if anyone wants to see the "ceremony".

 
Charlie Fog 
Masters Student
Posts: 586

Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
03-04-18 09:13 AM - Post#250703    
    In response to palestra38

Love this team! Congrats!

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
03-04-18 11:09 AM - Post#250725    
    In response to Charlie Fog

Just a tremendous accomplishment and a great season not yet done. Thanks to the guys and coach and I can't wait until next week. Time for some revenge. I'm just mad we don't get that punk Meisner.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 3614
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 05:05 PM - Post#250813    
    In response to Quakers03

Great regular season for the team and great to be able to say Ivy Champs again! Especially happy/proud of the seniors Foreman and Wood for seriously stepping up their games this year. Now let’s prove all the critics wrong and go win the Ivy Tournament. Won’t be easy, but these guys have what it takes!

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1877

Reg: 11-29-04
03-05-18 01:42 AM - Post#250860    
    In response to Mike Porter

Yeah, I know many people think it is NCAA or bust for them. While I'm sympathetic to this point of view, I actually think the regular season title is the bigger accomplishment and is more a test of the players' mettle. The Ivy League tournament involves the same test but has a much larger sprinkling of luck.

 
LyleGold 
PhD Student
Posts: 1712

Reg: 11-22-04
03-05-18 06:57 AM - Post#250866    
    In response to Penndemonium

  • Penndemonium Said:
Yeah, I know many people think it is NCAA or bust for them. While I'm sympathetic to this point of view, I actually think the regular season title is the bigger accomplishment and is more a test of the players' mettle. The Ivy League tournament involves the same test but has a much larger sprinkling of luck.



Absolutely right, which is why we shouldn't have the ILT. We should be preparing for the Harvard playoff game to determine the true Ivy Champion right now.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
Ivy League Champs!
03-05-18 09:41 AM - Post#250875    
    In response to LyleGold

I believe Ivy Champions in most sports are always declared for teams that tie during the regular season. The playoff in past basketball seasons was never to decide the Ivy champion - merely to decide who goes to the NCAA tourney.

So now we have what in effect is a 4 team seeded playoff rather than a two team playoff. The results in terms of making the season more relevant for more fans is undeniable. The one anomaly is holding the ILT in the Palestra which they will need to figure out. It would be easy to rotate to the gym of the number 1 seed but the fact is that the courts in the league include several which I'd describe as second rate high school gyms. So - my guess is it will eventually move to a neutral site. Everything changes slowly if at all in our league, but this will need to change and likely will.

As for those who still resist the ILT, understand you are now totally irrelevant. There is a reason the dinosaurs disappeared from the face of the earth. For those non Penn fans who question the Palestra as its home, that's pretty valid and my guess is it will need to be addressed, if not next year, then in the next couple of years.

 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Ivy League Champs!
03-05-18 09:56 AM - Post#250878    
    In response to AsiaSunset

I’ve reluctantly reconciled myself to the ILT. But I’m tired of all the complaining about holding it at the Palestra. It’s the only option that makes any real sense and the home court advantage is mostly mythical IMHO. If other league schools want to host, let them build a facility that can handle it. If the league wants to pony up to rent an arena in Connecticut, then do it. Until then, everyone should just shut up and play.

 
LyleGold 
PhD Student
Posts: 1712

Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Ivy League Champs!
03-05-18 10:02 AM - Post#250879    
    In response to AsiaSunset

  • AsiaSunset Said:
The playoff in past basketball seasons was never to decide the Ivy champion - merely to decide who goes to the NCAA tourney.



I'm not sure about "never". If that were the case, why didn't Penn hang the 1981 banner until the mid 90s? I don't remember an official line about co-champions and the playoff being only to determine the bid back then like there is now. I certainly know there were no chants of "Ivy Champs" until we won the '80 playoff and none at all in '81.

  • AsiaSunset Said:

As for those who still resist the ILT, understand you are now totally irrelevant. There is a reason the dinosaurs disappeared from the face of the earth.



That's below you, Asia. You should know better.
The ILT is a fact of life and it's not going to change. Not liking something is different from resisting it. I'll be at the Palestra cheering my head off like a brontosaurus. That's not resistance.


 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23197

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 10:03 AM - Post#250880    
    In response to LyleGold

This dinosaur will exult with the Quakers on Sunday as they cut down the nets. I deplore the ILT, but it sure isn't going to affect my rooting.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 10:53 AM - Post#250883    
    In response to 10Q

Actually not liking it is a form of resistance and we have had posters on this site brag about boycotting it.

The ILT is an important step forward and represents one of the essential steps the league needed to take to remain somewhat relevant in D1 basketball. Clearly there were other options like taking a step backwards, as football had done. We chose not to do that, so in my mind that's a positive and I embrace all steps to move forward, not backwards.

I'm not one who thinks that the league is there yet. I realize that we have faux scholarships for a segment of the player pool with more generous fin aid packages (which helps), but they are not the same as full scholarships. Just watching as much college basketball as I tend to do, I'm not as optimistic as Mike James is about the upward trajectory of the league. I don't think it matters whether our league is ranked 12th one year or 14th the next. We are what we are and that's ok for now.

But having followed this board for so many years I've questioned the judgement of many older posters whom I would describe as the traditionalists. So many fought the idea of an ILT for years with off the wall, specious arguments. It used to drive me nuts. I remember the outrage when they put the new scoreboards in. And now - bitching and moaning about the halftime entertainment by some.

The world has changed. I think older alums like many of us need to recognize that what younger people like is not always what we like, from dining choices, to music and certainly when it comes to sports entertainment. We are not the target market for much these days. Even at Penn you can see how much the younger parents with kids at our games love that video scoreboard.

How many of our kids are more interested in fantasy football leagues than the real games. Our kids watch their phones, ipads or red zone instead of the games. That's reality and to fight it is a swim upstream against a very strong tide moving in the opposite direction.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32683

Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 10:58 AM - Post#250885    
    In response to AsiaSunset

I think you're overblowing the "resistance", especially to the video board. I don't recall anyone ever criticizing it---it interferes with nothing and provides information. It would be nice if they updated the opposite scoreboard, which was down virtually the entire season for individual scoring and foul information.

Look, if you can't express your opinion here, where can you express it? Everyone here will either be at or watch the Tournament. That doesn't mean in our minds that is preferable to having a one-game playoff with Harvard, which would have been mind-blowingly awesome. But other than the DJ at games (which is just loud and obnoxious), pretty much everything is good, especially the direction of the program.

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23197

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 11:02 AM - Post#250887    
    In response to AsiaSunset

I am one who clings to the tradition that sets us apart and makes us special and cool. Part of that tradition is painful to accept, such as the no athletic scholarship rule and the refusal to play post-season football. If we are going to abandon tradition, let's give out athletic scholarships and go full out big time in both football and basketball. Until then, I remain grumpy when it comes to the ILT.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 11:24 AM - Post#250894    
    In response to palestra38

You don't recall correctly. There was absolute outrage on this board by many (maybe even you) when the plan to put in the new scoreboards was announced.

And the pre ILT discussions were numerous and heated and bordered on the absurd. It was going to be a financial disaster. What if a lower seed won? Oh my god! There was and remains only one argument against it and that was the fairness argument for a one bid league, but we were likely doomed to be a one league team for eternity without it (and perhaps may still be with it because of other self imposed handcuffs we are forced to wear). And now with this impending D1 scandal on the horizon, my guess is we won't see much happening for the next couple of years - except I believe fairness dictates a neutral venue for the ILT and that really should happen.

And of course- this forum should be a forum of free expression and opinion. Doesn't mean I need to be respected for all of mine or you for some of yours.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32683

Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 11:29 AM - Post#250897    
    In response to AsiaSunset

I never opposed the board--I can guarantee that. Only the DJ. And I have tickets to the Tournament, just expressing my opinion that the best way to get the best team to the NCAAs in a 1 bid league is the 14 game round robin.

 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-05-18 11:57 AM - Post#250902    
    In response to AsiaSunset

P38 has it right in the sense that this is the right place to express our opinions, including ones that can be disagreeable. I do not know of anyone who is boycotting the tournament because they don't like it on principle. Hell, I'd go even if Penn did not make it, and I'd go if Penn makes one I have to travel to.

I personally like video boards and hate the DJ's and carnival barkers, but I love throwing T-shirts. I like good lighting, chair-backs, and I also wish they would replace the windows in the Palestra that were painted over.

I have a daughter who is a Senior at Duke. She spent 6 weeks in a tent to get lots of face time on College Game Day and 2nd row center seats for the epic NC game at Cameron. She got her taste for the game coming to the Palestra with me. Duke does not have kids in donut costumes trying to make layups or bad DJs. Their seats sell on the aftermarket for thousands of dollars. Why? because they win and they have an amazing tradition. When we were in school, Duke had nothing on us, but then we went our separate ways. We could have been Duke. We could be now, although I'd rather wait until they get rid of the one-done fiasco.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Ivy League Champs!
03-05-18 01:29 PM - Post#250907    
    In response to Streamers

As has been documented every time this comes up, neutral sites depress attendance, often signficantly. This happens even in mid-major conferences where, unlike ours, people actually attend on a frequent basis.

In the Ohio Valley Conference, Murray State drew 6495 in their 8600 seat facility for a meaningless final regular season game on a Saturday.

Belmont drew a 5074 sellout for its final home game, also Saturday.

Attendance yesterday for the OVC final between those two at the University of Evansville’s 10,000 seat Ford Center: 4280.

In the Horizon League, Wright State drew 7205 for its final Saturday home game.

Northern Kentucky drew 6465.

Announced attendance for their doubleheader session against league dregs Green Bay and Cleveland State on Saturday in 20,491 capacity Little Caesar’s Arena in Detroit: 6276. Man, nothing celebrates your league more than 14,000 empty seats. Must have had a bad DJ.

But think of the joy those empties with their built in cup holders got seeing the league’s only top 100 Pomeroy team, regular season champ and #1 seed NKU, knocked out a potential NCAA bid by those pesky Pomeroy 310 CSU Vikings!

I think if the Ivies want to top that empties count they need to aim higher than the 15,000 seat XL Center in Hartford. I say it’s MSG or nothing. Forget being slightly more than a quarter-filled, we need at least 7/8ths of available seats pining for a patron.







Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-05-18 01:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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