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Username Post: Cut. It. Out.        (Topic#21268)
dperry 
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
dperry
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
03-04-18 02:30 AM - Post#250684    

1. With regards to this, this, and this (and referencing my original post here )

a.) I have loved Penn athletics since I matriculated almost thirty years ago. One of the major reasons I moved back to the Philadelphia area (to the detriment of my standard of living) was precisely because I wanted to be able to actually go to games again. I have since gone to hundreds of games on campus and all over the Northeast to watch them on the road, and I intend to continue doing so as I long as I can walk and have strength; that will be true even if we do get consigned to DIII or the equivalent thereof. I feel bad for the players when they lose, am happy for them when they win, and rejoice in their accomplishments off the field. Please do not accuse me of not caring about the athletes' enjoyment.
b.) As you all know, I have been a devoted fan of the women's team the past few years, and have watched them ever since the Caramanico days (which, as discussed earlier, is where the feud with Banghart started ). I also have loved going to squash matches in recent times, and am getting into the baseball team more and more. In my thirty years of Penn fandom, I have also attended both fencing teams, sprint football, field hockey, both lacrosse teams, men's rowing, women's soccer, softball, both track teams, wrestling, and volleyball. I hope to make at least one visit to all the rest before I die. In many cases, I have been the only Penn fan present who was not a friend or family member of the athletes or the coaches. Please do not accuse me of devaluing sports besides men's hoops and football.
c.) I have been one of the biggest defenders of the Ivies' no-scholarship policy on here, and a major reason for that is that I don't want the athletes to feel compelled to stay on the team if it isn't meeting their needs. I also am unhappy when I hear people talk on here or in the DP about athletes feeling pressured by their coaches to sacrifice academics for the sake of the sport. I am on record as believing that players in the upper echelons of college sports should be paid and that the current situation is exploitative. PLEASE do not accuse me of having a "plantation" mentality towards the athletes, or of thinking that I "own" them.
d.) It would also be nice if people actually read what I said before going off on it. I did not say that the athletes exist for our entertainment; I said that the sports do, at least primarily. As others have pointed out, if this was strictly for the enjoyment of the players, you wouldn't need coaches, or arenas, or athletic departments, or the NCAA. For that matter, we already do provide intercollegiate competition purely for the pleasure of the athletes; it's called club sports (and I think those do a better job of teaching many of the "lessons" that sports are supposedly so good at, because much more of the work of organizing those teams is done by the players themselves.) The fact that we have yet another level of athletics that is treated differently and gets a much greater share of resources, and that it is something that is explicitly marketed to the larger university community and the outside public, says that there is something else going on here, and while it is true that there are different levels of interest and engagement with different sports, the fact remains that the primary motivation for all of the varsity sports is to interact with the fans and the outside world. I am frankly stunned that this statement is even the slightest bit controversial with anyone who has two eyes to see. Also, the comparison with the Texans owner was botched; what he said is "we can't have the inmates running the prison," which calls forth a rather different image, particularly in the context of the NFL, which is a world very much apart from the Ivies. The metaphor I used has a well understood meaning, which does not carry any sort of racial overtones (and it should be noted that I also consider the coaches and the athletic departments as "inmates.") Those who ask me to watch my tone should in turn ask themselves whether their ability to hear the "dog whistle" means that they are dogs. I also find it ironic that after I got chewed out for this, the thread then turned to alleged shadiness by Duke and Harvard, i.e., what happens when the inmates do run the asylum.
d.) I'm perfectly happy to add "fan support/interest" to our hypothetical questionnaire for Ivy basketball players; that will be yet another thing that will finish ahead of "League has tournament."
e.) I'm not certain whether this is directed at me or my critics, but again, while I'm not literally an owner, the team has been created for me and everyone else on this board, and many other Penn people besides, to enjoy, just as the Tigers are there for the folks on the Princeton board and their compatriots, the Crimson are there for the Harvard people, etc. In that sense, we all "own" a small share of Penn athletics.

2.) Can we lay the heck off Mike James a bit? For one thing, of all the fan bases in the league, we ought to be the ones who understand how wearying it gets to be accused of cheating all of the time. Yes, Amaker did wrong, and he was appropriately chastised for it, but that doesn't mean that he's done wrong since (and I'm pretty sure that if he had, the other seven schools would have been all over it, not to mention a large part of the Harvard community--notice how much contempt a lot of folks there had for athletes after the take-home exam scandal, despite the fact that there were far more non-students involved.) The other thing is, for God's sake, Mike's day job is to analyze basketball for the freakin' pros, and he has covered Ivy basketball a lot, both for the Crimson and for various outlets since. He really does know some things that most of the rest of us don't. That doesn't mean that you have to agree with him all the time--I certainly don't, but I do respect that he thinks through things carefully, and I learn things from discussions with him, and I'm pretty sure others here do as well. Some of us appreciate his presence, and we would hate to lose him because he got fed up with the constant stream of criticism he gets. . .

3.) . . .which leads into the next point: can we all try to be less personal in what we say around here? If you don't agree with the arguments I give for opposing the tournament, fine, shred them up and down, but don't call me a old fart or a player-hater (literally ). I've run into Howard Gensler a couple of times lately, and I rather miss his and Paul Chrystie's contributions to this board, to name only two people. Can we please remember that in the end, we all bleed Red and Blue, and that what we say comes from that love, even if you may think that it is misguided?

4.) Lastly, for the love of all that's holy, keep the politics on the off-topic board. It's bad enough that we argue about league and NCAA affairs here, but I watch Penn sports in part to get away from all of that crap. It also makes point 3 above much harder to attain. Don't drop references, don't make snide little comments, just don't go there.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


Edited by dperry on 03-04-18 02:36 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
03-04-18 07:29 AM - Post#250690    
    In response to dperry

nahhhhhhh. Just apologize, bro.

also, there's no way you're going to convince me my high school, which charges admission to its high school basketball games and pays for refs and the like, is doing this for my enjoyment.


 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3578

Reg: 02-15-15
03-04-18 10:41 AM - Post#250719    
    In response to Jeff2sf

I think Anhueser-Busch sells beer just for consumers enjoyment right?

 
10Q 
Professor
Posts: 23193

Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 10:47 AM - Post#250722    
    In response to Jeff2sf

We are the game!

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
03-04-18 11:12 AM - Post#250726    
    In response to 10Q

You're offbase on this one, Jeff.

 
91Quake 
PhD Student
Posts: 1123

Reg: 11-22-04
03-04-18 12:02 PM - Post#250734    
    In response to Quakers03

Ditto Q03.

 
Ancient Quaker 
Masters Student
Posts: 647
Ancient Quaker
Reg: 11-21-04
03-04-18 05:52 PM - Post#250821    
    In response to 91Quake

Double ditto.

 
Charlie Fog 
Masters Student
Posts: 586

Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
03-04-18 06:10 PM - Post#250827    
    In response to Ancient Quaker

All that happened’d

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
Cut. It. Out.
03-10-18 10:50 AM - Post#251652    
    In response to Quakers03

why? in the course of putting his interests above players, he called them inmates.



Edited by Jeff2sf on 03-10-18 10:56 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Ancient Quaker 
Masters Student
Posts: 647
Ancient Quaker
Reg: 11-21-04
03-10-18 10:57 AM - Post#251653    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Both of you may need an olfactory checkup.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
03-10-18 10:58 AM - Post#251654    
    In response to Ancient Quaker

  • Ancient Quaker Said:
Both of you may need an olfactory checkup.



Oh ok, so you support the calling of players inmates. Good to know, Mr. McNair.

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1877

Reg: 11-29-04
03-10-18 11:35 AM - Post#251662    
    In response to Jeff2sf

  • Jeff2sf Said:
  • Ancient Quaker Said:
Both of you may need an olfactory checkup.



Oh ok, so you support the calling of players inmates. Good to know, Mr. McNair.



C'mon, give it a rest. You think this is funny banter, but sometimes one person's funny in cyber-space is incredibly upsetting to another.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
03-10-18 11:54 AM - Post#251665    
    In response to Penndemonium

I'm not laughing, bud. I don't know why you're excusing it.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
03-10-18 12:00 PM - Post#251667    
    In response to Jeff2sf

How the hell can you still be going? Can't you take a hint? You know damn well he meant nothing by it. Please stop wasting our time on such an important day.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
Cut. It. Out.
03-10-18 12:14 PM - Post#251668    
    In response to Quakers03

I don't have as much time to post during the week. In that sense I'm like David Perry :).

Alright, in deference to the day, I'll let it go. But you have to admit there's some irony here in it being a special day given Perry doesn't recognize the validity of the tournament.

We're gonna be fine today; tomorrow, I'm more worried.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 32680

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Cut. It. Out.
03-10-18 12:21 PM - Post#251669    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Well, if we get tomorrow's game with Harvard, then the Basketball Gods declared that the playoff should occur as if there were no tournament (of course, at the Palestra instead of a neutral site). So everyone should now just concentrate on the game. I like our chances today too.

But it's no gimmee.

 
dperry 
Postdoc
Posts: 2211
dperry
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: Cut. It. Out.
03-10-18 02:55 PM - Post#251689    
    In response to Jeff2sf

I refuse to be held hostage to your feverish imagination. Again, you might want to do some introspection as to why you were the only one (including those who otherwise disagreed with me) who drew a racial meaning out of my comments.

In deference to the "special day" (specially nerve-wracking and distressing, as far as I'm concerned), and more importantly, to the board in general, this is the last time I'm dignifying this topic with a reply. You want to continue ranting, you're on your own; but thank you for presenting an excellent example of the incivility I was talking about in the rest of the last post.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 4466

Reg: 11-22-04
Cut. It. Out.
03-10-18 05:07 PM - Post#251713    
    In response to dperry

someguy thought it was ahem, poorly worded.

No Darnell, I didn't say you were a prisoner, just insane. (NOW DANCE FOR ME, DANCE!)


I'm done.

Edited by Jeff2sf on 03-10-18 05:08 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Chip Bayers 
Professor
Posts: 6997
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
Cut. It. Out.
03-10-18 07:03 PM - Post#251726    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Also, it’s racist to ever again use the word “Bedlam” to refer to OU-OK State athletic matchups - or really at all - because it originally referred to an historic London facility for the mentally ill.



Edited by Chip Bayers on 03-10-18 07:04 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1877

Reg: 11-29-04
03-10-18 09:30 PM - Post#251762    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Please everyone, drop it. I don't want this forum to become like my facebook feed during the election. Just enjoy the basketball, please!

 
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