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Username Post: New Recruits an Next Years Lineupps        (Topic#21310)
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
04-30-18 03:21 PM - Post#256137    
    In response to Silver Maple

I'm not sure what you're asking? Do you want me to lay out all my credentials and contact with the team so you can verify if my assessment is valid?

I cant imagine what a current graduating senior would have grudge wise against a team whom he has rooted for the past 4 years despite being pretty awful.

I have been embedded with the coaches, players, and overall Dartmouth population since I matriculated. Joining purely because I loved basketball and was too unathletic to actually play it. I joined this board to voice insights, talk about our success (awkward), and provide on the ground reporting. Evidently I am making things up and holding a grudge.

I'll put it simply. I've lived through four years of uninspired coaching, poor institutional support, and a fanbase that is dwindling because we don't win. I'll leave out an uninspiring coaching search as I guess there is still time to find inspiration (although it is dwindling). The fact that you see basketball being a priority at Dartmouth is shocking, and perhaps indicative of an issue permeating the few remaining fans. Dartmouth Basketball is simply an afterthought.

But, as happy as I am to finally reset the password on my original account I am also happy to realize that perhaps as I graduate it is best to step away. The discourse here is more echo chamber than dialogue.

Looking forward to next season!

~SDS





 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
New Recruits an Next Years Lineupps
04-30-18 04:58 PM - Post#256155    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

Actually one last point before I sign off. @ Go Green; Probably best not to be passive aggressive and post on other boards about me, rather than pointing it out here. While I don't post there, I certainly will address it here.

Trying to discredit my experience and my take on things really makes brings into question your motivations. Why is it so hard to accept that the program sucks? We have bottomed out over the last x years, dont know how much worse it gets.

I certainly have identified my background and have given you proof. I was right about discontent on the team as early as the beginning of last season.

You hitch your wagon to the program as is, my bet will be that our success (whenever that may be) will be found in a different direction. Good luck with that.

Edited by SomeDartmouthStudent on 04-30-18 05:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: New Recruits an Next Years Lineupps
05-01-18 05:25 AM - Post#256168    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
Actually one last point before I sign off. @ Go Green; Probably best not to be passive aggressive and post on other boards about me, rather than pointing it out here. While I don't post there, I certainly will address it here.

Trying to discredit my experience and my take on things really makes brings into question your motivations. Why is it so hard to accept that the program sucks? We have bottomed out over the last x years, dont know how much worse it gets.

I certainly have identified my background and have given you proof. I was right about discontent on the team as early as the beginning of last season.

You hitch your wagon to the program as is, my bet will be that our success (whenever that may be) will be found in a different direction. Good luck with that.



Where exactly have I said that the program is doing well? I genuinely thought that they'd finish in in the upper division if the team was intact in 2017-18. So did others. Obviously, the team was not intact. My personal opinion is that the team finished as well as could have been expected given the circumstances in 2017-18. They certainly could have been worse...

There's a difference between not being willing to cross certain lines (i.e., not overriding the players' vote to make EB captain) and not caring about winning. Calling you out for completely unfair statemnents like the one you said last week does not make me a program sycophant.

Ultimately McLaughlin will be judged on wins and losses. I expect improvement next season. If it doesn't happen and there are no extenuating circumstances beyond his control--they sure, let's talk about going in a new direction.


Edited by Go Green on 05-01-18 05:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3324

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
05-01-18 07:26 AM - Post#256173    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
I'm not sure what you're asking? Do you want me to lay out all my credentials and contact with the team so you can verify if my assessment is valid?

I cant imagine what a current graduating senior would have grudge wise against a team whom he has rooted for the past 4 years despite being pretty awful.

I have been embedded with the coaches, players, and overall Dartmouth population since I matriculated. Joining purely because I loved basketball and was too unathletic to actually play it. I joined this board to voice insights, talk about our success (awkward), and provide on the ground reporting. Evidently I am making things up and holding a grudge.

I'll put it simply. I've lived through four years of uninspired coaching, poor institutional support, and a fanbase that is dwindling because we don't win. I'll leave out an uninspiring coaching search as I guess there is still time to find inspiration (although it is dwindling). The fact that you see basketball being a priority at Dartmouth is shocking, and perhaps indicative of an issue permeating the few remaining fans. Dartmouth Basketball is simply an afterthought.

But, as happy as I am to finally reset the password on my original account I am also happy to realize that perhaps as I graduate it is best to step away. The discourse here is more echo chamber than dialogue.

Looking forward to next season!

~SDS





OK, Mr. Embedded, I'll ask the obvious question: how do all your close personal friends among the players and coaches feel about the fact that you're posting all your insider knowledge on a public message board?

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
Re: New Recruits an Next Years Lineupps
05-01-18 07:33 AM - Post#256174    
    In response to Go Green

Evidently I can't stay away.

Please explain how my statement was unfair? I've seen our practices, games, and team interactions firsthand. Additionally, I'll point towards a high player attrition rate, poor record, loss of recruits, and lack of institutional support (see why can football be succesfull?) as to why you are deluded.

Second- in no place did I mention the player who must not be named? He's symptomatic of the problem, but not something I even referenced. If we are out here questioning sources, how do you know that the situation you outlined (re: captaincy) is even accurate? Ill await your answer.

My advice? Give up on that whole schtick- the hating on a 19 year old is getting kinda old. Probably best to focus on our program rather than a player who left. Something I've outlined ad nauseam for awhile.

Anyway- the next season or two will be very telling. I'll certainly tune in hoping to be surprised and would love nothing more than to be wrong.


 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
05-01-18 07:38 AM - Post#256176    
    In response to Silver Maple

Trying to find your point here? I don't really care. They certainly don't know its me. I am sufficiently vague in that I could be any number of people.

Most of the time i am inclined to stay silent and let things play out, but I can't sit still with the people who believe everything's fantastic and time will yield us wins. Not like this.

How do your friends and family feel about you arguing with a 22 year old, on a public forum, about a bad basketball team you're barely associated with?

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: New Recruits an Next Years Lineupps
05-01-18 08:01 AM - Post#256187    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
Evidently I can't stay away.

Please explain how my statement was unfair? I've seen our practices, games, and team interactions firsthand. Additionally, I'll point towards a high player attrition rate, poor record, loss of recruits, and lack of institutional support (see why can football be succesfull?) as to why you are deluded.

Second- in no place did I mention the player who must not be named? He's symptomatic of the problem, but not something I even referenced. If we are out here questioning sources, how do you know that the situation you outlined (re: captaincy) is even accurate? Ill await your answer.

My advice? Give up on that whole schtick- the hating on a 19 year old is getting kinda old. Probably best to focus on our program rather than a player who left. Something I've outlined ad nauseam for awhile.

Anyway- the next season or two will be very telling. I'll certainly tune in hoping to be surprised and would love nothing more than to be wrong.




If you have to ask why the statement "the coaching staff doesn't seem to care about having a winning team" is unfair, then you have a lot of growing up to do, Mr. 22-year-old.

Perhaps after you've had a career and things aren't going well, you'll get some clues. Best of luck to you.


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3324

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
05-01-18 09:07 AM - Post#256200    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
Trying to find your point here? I don't really care. They certainly don't know its me. I am sufficiently vague in that I could be any number of people.

Most of the time i am inclined to stay silent and let things play out, but I can't sit still with the people who believe everything's fantastic and time will yield us wins. Not like this.

How do your friends and family feel about you arguing with a 22 year old, on a public forum, about a bad basketball team you're barely associated with?



If you really are an insider, then I think you're guilty of a pretty egregious breach of trust. However, It seems implausible to me that the coaches and players couldn't figure out who among those within the program is regularly posting criticism on a public forum. They're not stupid. Which suggests to me that your positioning yourself as an insider is just so much bovine feces. Perhaps you'd like to share your real name and your position with the team, instead of hiding behind a screen name?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1187

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-01-18 10:13 AM - Post#256210    
    In response to Silver Maple

Guys, let's please back off on this purported student. He's only positioning himself as the messenger. Why would an obvious fan of Dartmouth basketball want to pretend to know negative things about the program? It makes no sense. There is not conspiracy by outsiders to take down Dartmouth basketball. As is going on over on the Columbia Board, there could be things that no one likes or wishes to be true.

If you don't like or believe these things, choose not to put much credence in them and move forward. Please don't make ad hominem attacks, we're all better than that. Even here.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3324

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
New Recruits an Next Years Lineupps
05-01-18 10:19 AM - Post#256211    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

You really don't understand why people in public forums feign insider knowledge?

It's fine to air your opinions and grievances in places like these. But trying to position opinion as fact by claiming expert qualifications is over the line. I think that's what this guy is doing, and it's dishonest. This is not an ad hominem attack. If he really is an insider, he should tell us who he is.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
05-01-18 10:26 AM - Post#256212    
    In response to Silver Maple

There is no breach of trust here. Pointing out flaws in a program that I'm attached to only serves to prove the point that I've endured how bad this was for 4 years. I never expected us to be great, just to actually attempt to make meaningful change in the direction of winning.

What you see is frustration. There is more than just not doing well, in fact Dartmouth has never been good. This is more akin to consistently failing and switching jobs and industries throughout your whole career without truly figuring out your core competencies. But yes, pin it on age! That always works well.

I've worked in/with the athletic department, count many of the players as friends, and am embedded in the student body. I can tell you if the players knew, they certainly dont care. I personally dont care if the coaching staff knows at all. Maybe come graduation, ill appear and provide all my details. But if you cant see the value that perspective brings then there is really a lost cause.

All of that being said, validating my existence to silver maple, a penn undergrad who is only connected through tuck is literally the furthest thing on my list of things to do. You think the team, the school, or the coaches read this forum? that's laughable. That would require them to care about public perception.



 
Joe.Yemly 
Freshman
Posts: 12

Age: 32
Reg: 03-08-17
05-01-18 10:29 AM - Post#256213    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
They certainly don't know its me. I am sufficiently vague in that I could be any number of people.




The number of non-player undergrads that have been around the program for the last 4 years is very very small. I'm sure if your involvement is as you say it is, they'll know who you are.

 
ivyrules 
Pre-Frosh
Posts: 1

Age: 46
Reg: 11-27-17
05-01-18 11:29 AM - Post#256225    
    In response to Joe.Yemly

What I don't get is how SDS could be grad student in 2016, and then a soon-to-graduate undergrad in 2018.

I think there may be 2 SDSs?


 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
05-01-18 11:38 AM - Post#256226    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:

Maybe come graduation, ill appear and provide all my details.





We will await your report breathlessly.

 
SomeDartmouthStudent 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Reg: 11-30-16
05-01-18 12:01 PM - Post#256227    
    In response to Go Green

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
Longtime follower here, just getting into the posting game. As someone who spends a lot of time with the team (Grad student), this start to the season is a huge disappointment.



There is one of me, happy to post on my other account as well. This was a time where I was more involved with the team and wanted to cast some doubt on any chance i was an undergrad (literally my first post on here).

Like you said, so few undergrads interact with the team. I do feel like my posting has gone unnoticed internally. I certainly have not been confronted so the rouse must not be up, or they simply dont care.

On another note, I'd say over the last few years the non-player undergrads directly associated with the team has been ~ 12.

My qualifications are far from expert. Hell, I'd say I have much to learn in the realm of basketball. Nothing I said is opinion. List all the resources Dartmouth has put towards basketball. Tell me about how we got rid of the last coach, or the coaching search for the new one? How about facility upgrades, or things to draw new recruits?

Anyway- you guys are missing the forest for the trees. There is a problem. You shouldn't need my experiences in Hanover to pinpoint that.

But i digress. I keep getting sucked back in. Done posting, but I'll make sure to check in to see why the penn fan above is so obsessed with my real name and stirring this up. It is funny you only question insider information here.

Back to lurking!

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
05-01-18 12:17 PM - Post#256228    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:


List all the resources Dartmouth has put towards basketball. Tell me about how we got rid of the last coach, or the coaching search for the new one? How about facility upgrades, or things to draw new recruits?





While I can see an argument that Dartmouth's not putting $$$ into basketball (Harvard) or not re-assigning AI slots to basketball (ditto) indicates that we do not care about winning as much as other schools....

... I utterly fail to see how you can possibly say that the AD and coaching staff don't care about winning based on the above passage. Unless your theory is that Sheehy fired Cormier because he thought Cormier was winning too much? Is that what you're saying? Because that sounds insane.

As I said before, I will look forward to your expose of the program.

 
Joe.Yemly 
Freshman
Posts: 12

Age: 32
Reg: 03-08-17
05-01-18 12:23 PM - Post#256229    
    In response to SomeDartmouthStudent

  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:
  • SomeDartmouthStudent Said:


On another note, I'd say over the last few years the non-player undergrads directly associated with the team has been ~ 12.



Well, you mentioned you've been involved the last 4 years. If that is indeed the case, and you are graduating this year, then there are very few people that you could be...This is kind of fun! I'll allow you to reveal yourself in your own time.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1187

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-01-18 03:33 PM - Post#256253    
    In response to Joe.Yemly

I still don’t get it. Focus on the message, not the messager. Leave the kid alone. He has no obligation to identify himself. I’m convinced he’s who he says he is, and that he’s hearing what he says he’s hearing.

I have my sources in relation to Harvard, but would never disclose them. So do others on these Boards.

 
flinder 
Freshman
Posts: 12

Age: 40
Reg: 11-16-16
05-01-18 09:41 PM - Post#256269    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I think we can all agree that the program's not where we'd want it to be, and that Dartmouth seems to have made myriad missteps in attempting to right the ship over the past...several decades?

I can also totally understand SDS's desire to maintain a bit of anonymity, not that I gather a lot of people affiliated with Dartmouth basketball are actually reading this forum (or care a ton about who says what here). I have access to a little bit of insider perspective, and I'd rather not share how I know anything, either.

I don't think it's that coaches and Sheehy don't care, exactly. I think it's more a matter of there being less pressure to promote excellence over competence than there would be for coaches and administrators at, say, Harvard. Or Penn. Or Princeton. Or Yale.

I think we have trouble attracting players because (a) we're a rural school, (b) the campus is perceived as conservative, and (c) we haven't won an Ivy title since 1960. How do you overcome those three factors until you actually win with a group you've got? Somewhere along the line, the team has to overachieve; when was the last time Dartmouth did that? The Sea Lonergan years?

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
05-02-18 06:58 AM - Post#256274    
    In response to flinder

  • flinder Said:


I think we have trouble attracting players because (a) we're a rural school, (b) the campus is perceived as conservative, and (c) we haven't won an Ivy title since 1960. How do you overcome those three factors until you actually win with a group you've got? Somewhere along the line, the team has to overachieve; when was the last time Dartmouth did that? The Sea Lonergan years?



I would be shocked if this is an issue today.

And I don't know what definition you are using for "overachieve." Arguably, we overachieved this past season given the hand we were dealt.

If you mean "last time we were a legit threat for the title" was the late 1990s with that Boyd-Buth-Gee-Harris-MacG innis starting five. Unfortunately, we didn't have anyone good on the bench and were not able to finish games (worth mentioning that the guys on the bench were products of Furstenberg raising the AI).

 
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