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Username Post: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?        (Topic#21313)
Streamers 
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Streamers
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03-10-18 10:21 AM - Post#251658    

The Penn opening line of -7 (now down to -5.5) clearly reflected a bump for HCA. I know most on the board think it is a big deal this weekend. I'm skeptical. Let me break it down:

There are maybe 4 aspects to HCA:
- Venue familiarity. Really? by now all these teams know their way around the Palestra. Penn does not even get their own locker room.
- Crowd. Penn will have their cheering section, and will likely be pulling for Cornell, but this is not like the old days when we had students there for a Princeton game and the crowd was really into it. I have only counted 2 or three times all year for true home games when the crowd was making any real noise.
- Refs. If anything, this will be a disadvantage because the refs will want to avoid any perceived 'home' calls.
- Travel & Fatigue. This will be an issue for both teams tomorrow. Today? not so much.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
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03-11-18 01:28 PM - Post#251953    
    In response to Streamers

I definitely can see where HCA made a difference for Penn down the stretch in the Finals. They got a call on their final possession that I thought should have clearly been Harvards ball. They survived a Harvard comeback after going flat in the back end of the 2nd half. They couldn't secure the rebound on the final possession and allowed Harvard two shots to tie.

They deserve to win and they did but to take this issue off the table the League should continue the dialogue on preventing such a potentially potent HCA.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-11-18 01:30 PM - Post#251955    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Either team could have won this game.

HCA was decisive. No question about it.

 
penn nation 
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03-11-18 01:32 PM - Post#251956    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

In terms of the refs, there were any number of shots attempted by Penn players near the hoop, drawing contact, where the refs sat on their whistles.

Obviously the home court played a huge role in getting Penn back in the game--from that point on, just a supercharged atmosphere.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
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03-11-18 01:38 PM - Post#251957    
    In response to penn nation

Even though I thought HCA played a role. I don’t have any issue with the tourney and feel we’re still sending the best team to the NCAA this year. At full strength i think Harvard pulls this out despite HCA.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
Big R&B Truth 
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03-11-18 01:43 PM - Post#251962    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Perhaps Harvard should blame the fools who have been investing their endowment. A reasonable rate of would have provided them with more than enough money to build the basketball team their shining new home in Allston that might been worthy of hosting the Ivy Tournament.

 
84grad 
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03-11-18 02:04 PM - Post#251973    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

Clearly, HCA was a key factor today. To deny that would be ridiculous.

And while I will always hope in obvious vain for the elimination of the tourney — and as difficult as it is to say this right after the game as a diehard Harvard supporter— I have no problem with the tournament being at the Palestra at least most of the time, if not all of the time. Let the Ivy League take its place in Philly Big 5 history. It’s really a special place.

Then again, as I have indicated here before, at my urging my wife even named our cat Palestra.

 
Chip Bayers 
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03-11-18 02:20 PM - Post#251979    
    In response to 84grad

I didn’t see any HCA on that ridiculous charge call against Rothschild late in the game on what was a clear flop.


 
palestra38 
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03-11-18 02:26 PM - Post#251985    
    In response to Chip Bayers

The refs held their whistles almost all day, and I was fine with that because it was even.

But the advantage of having the fans in one of the world's louder buildings pulling for the 2nd seeded team makes the tournament uneven.

But if the purpose is branding, as I think it is, there can be no other location for this--can you imagine it in Bridgeport? Really? So it's either fairness or the best show.

 
digamma 
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03-11-18 02:55 PM - Post#251995    
    In response to Chip Bayers

  • Chip Bayers Said:
I didn’t see any HCA on that ridiculous charge call against Rothschild late in the game on what was a clear flop.



That was just a make up call for when Bassey flexed and knocked AJ halfway across the Palestra. (In actuality both guys extended their arms and got called for offensive fouls.)

 
penn nation 
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03-11-18 02:57 PM - Post#251996    
    In response to digamma

Yeah, but this game was not really about one team getting totally hosed by the refs.

Although, had the outcome been different, it might well have been about second half FTs not made. Oy.

 
bradley 
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03-11-18 03:00 PM - Post#251997    
    In response to palestra38

Fairness and doing what is right should drive the train. Figure out how to best brand the product after starting out on the premise of doing the right thing -- they are not mutually exclusive although there are always some trade offs. You rarely go wrong by doing the right thing.

I will be very surprised if the tournament remains at the Palestra next year. Penn women's team wins by 1-3 points today , it will be another reason.



 
Go Green 
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03-11-18 04:00 PM - Post#252020    
    In response to bradley


Can only imagine how badly the Princeton women would be beating Penn but for the HCA....




 
Big R&B Truth 
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03-11-18 04:17 PM - Post#252028    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:

Can only imagine how badly the Princeton women would be beating Penn but for the HCA....






It looks like the tournament could be staying at the Palestra.


 
Streamers 
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03-11-18 04:34 PM - Post#252037    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

HCA was not what beat Harvard today. Losing Towns was part of it, some really bad shot selection in the 2nd half was part of it, Lewis deciding to stay off the boards most of the game was part of it.

It was a loud Penn crowd (and way bigger than I thought, and, wait for it, a nearly full student section) that certainly helped. The officiating was little random at times, but did not favor either team. Neither team looked at all fatigued, which was a big surprise to me.

Penn, for its part, made it closer than it needed to be with some all to typical FT misses down the stretch.

Give Bassey his props for stepping up in Towns' absence.

All you out there whining about the Palestra as the venue, I'll remind you of this when we end up in Jadwin next year with PU in the mix.

 
Go Green 
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03-11-18 04:57 PM - Post#252051    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

  • Big R&B Truth Said:
  • Go Green Said:

Can only imagine how badly the Princeton women would be beating Penn but for the HCA....






It looks like the tournament could be staying at the Palestra.




That would be ironic, wouldn't it? Banghart has been the loudest critic of the tournament, and her own team's dominant performance quells any momentum tourney opponents may have to get changes made.




 
SomeGuy 
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03-11-18 05:00 PM - Post#252053    
    In response to Streamers

Plenty of Harvard fans there too, so I was pretty happy with the crowd and an environment. Would have liked a sellout though.

And I know it’s kind of canned excitement for the anti madness crowd, but our league and our kids historically miss out on that winner take all situations— that was fun today, and you could see it on both teams faces at the start.

 
SRP 
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03-11-18 09:19 PM - Post#252197    
    In response to SomeGuy

TV guys had locked in on a particular Penn lovely to show at every break in the first half. She was having a great time.

 
penn nation 
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03-11-18 09:26 PM - Post#252200    
    In response to SRP

I noticed her, too. Close to the floor and by the end line.

 
PennFan10 
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03-11-18 09:35 PM - Post#252207    
    In response to penn nation

Palestra is leading candidate for next years ILT, but not as strong as the first two years.

 
TheLine 
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03-12-18 09:56 AM - Post#252326    
    In response to SRP

  • SRP Said:
TV guys had locked in on a particular Penn lovely to show at every break in the first half. She was having a great time.


Except that one break she spent on her smart phone while I was screaming "Stop the tweeting, you millennial!" at my TV.


 
Quakers03 
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03-12-18 11:32 AM - Post#252379    
    In response to TheLine

Can we talk about the last call on Betley again? I've heard a lot of complaining, especially from the Columbia color guy, but do we know that the ball even went out of bounds? The camera angle we have shows Ryan securing the ball again but you can't tell where on the floor it hits. Does anyone know that it definitively hit the sideline? If not, he had the ball back and yes he was trapped and may have needed a timeout, but it wasn't just Harvard ball.

 
10Q 
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03-12-18 08:06 PM - Post#252599    
    In response to Quakers03

We totally lucked out on what was a bad call. I don’t know if it went out of bounds. The whistle stopped the action.

 
penn nation 
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Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 08:10 PM - Post#252602    
    In response to Quakers03

10Q appears to be correct on the whistle. There's no conclusive proof the ball went out of bounds, but there is some indirect circumstantial evidence, based both on where Betley ended up and the look on his face, that it might have done so.

  • Quakers03 Said:
Can we talk about the last call on Betley again? I've heard a lot of complaining, especially from the Columbia color guy, but do we know that the ball even went out of bounds? The camera angle we have shows Ryan securing the ball again but you can't tell where on the floor it hits. Does anyone know that it definitively hit the sideline? If not, he had the ball back and yes he was trapped and may have needed a timeout, but it wasn't just Harvard ball.




Edited by penn nation on 03-12-18 08:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bradley 
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03-12-18 08:42 PM - Post#252614    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I know that you are a good die-hard Crimson fan who was not in favor of the tournament but have accepted the reality of IvyMadness. You have heard all of the arguments of the tournament proponents that have evolved from substantive arguments, i.e. two bid, increased regular season attendance yadi yada. As some of those arguments have fallen to the wayside based on reality over the last two years, the more subjective arguments have popped up, i.e. every conference does it, it's FUN, etc.

Another talking point is that if the #1 seed loses, it's ok as the team gets an automatic bid to the NIT and everyone should be thrilled or at least happy.

I am curious how you and other Crimson fans truly feel by losing by 3 points as a road team. Are you happy that the Crimson are going to the NIT? Do you feel that you got screwed?



 
PennFan10 
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03-12-18 08:50 PM - Post#252618    
    In response to bradley

Kerosene, see fire.......

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 09:54 PM - Post#252636    
    In response to PennFan10

Thanks for the summary.

I do still think that the Tournament is not a good idea for a single bid league. It is filled with landmines (Penn taking Princeton to OT, Towns getting hurt), likely kills any chance for a second bid by adding another loss to all but one team, and simply increases the chance for a bad result (e.g., best team doesn't make the NCAA Tournament - see 2017 OT).

Hopefully, you can read my points objectively. This is not anti-Penn. These objections apply mainly because home court is not earned and it happens that the Palestra is incovenient to most of the league.

The Tournament as currently constituted is:
- unfair: one school has a distinct home court advantage which absolutely impacts the competitiveness of the entire competition;
- inconvenient: the Palestra is the southernmost location in the conference - why pick a geographical outlier?;
- does not deliver as a purported Ivy gathering. Thus far, the tournament and its host has not delivered as an Ivy League meeting venue, it's a smallish old fashioned arena with no common spaces or amenities. There is no central location and there are no social events, just a poor excuse for refreshments. Might as well be in Bridgeport once you leave the arena. There is NOTHING planned or offered. Outside the area, the only thing evidencing what was going on at all was an ice sculpture - and only for Saturday as it was apparently vandalized after the first day. I was wondering why there were no social events or mixers planned like I've attended in the nearby Gordon track and tennis facilities at Harvard. Do the facilities not exist? Or is it because no visitors make the trek to Philly?
- I was at every game for two years and saw very few non-Penn students. This event is not friendly to students of most schools who must travel hours each way (e.g., Cornell 6AM bus, RT in one day!). Again, this is because Philadelphia is a distant locale for most. How many Penn students travel to Hanover, Ithaca or even Cambridge for games? Other than Penn students, very few others showed not because they don't want to cheer their team and watch a sport they love, but because the location is prohibitive (time, logistics and expense). As the father of a current Ivy student, and based on personal experience, I know this is a FACT.
- overnight accommodations are not great. If you don't drive, local hotels ran $250 - $400/night. Penn was on break and so the dorms seemed to be closed (so students can't even stay with friends at Penn).

Bottom line: if you host a gathering of 8 supposedly equal partners and roughly 90% of the attendees are the host itself, you've done something dramatically wrong. If in the first two years (a) the 6-8 home team almost beats the (14-0) league champion, and then (b) in year two that same home team can't cover the statistical home court advantage but wins anyway, then you KNOW that the decision to have Penn host the tournament is influencing the outcomes. HCA is proven: Penn lost to Harvard and Yale on the road, only able to beat them at home.

These kids start practicing in October with one thing in mind - to go dancing. Seems awfully wrong to make non-Penn teams prove they can beat Penn on the road to reach their goal. How can this possibly be justified?

Footnote: I have no idea what would have happened at a neutral site, but both games at the Palestra were one possession games. There was no such close contest at Lavietes (9 points - cut from 16 midway through the second half). Did the better team win? Now, we will never know.

Yes, the Palestra means something to many, but not me. Maybe that's why I see things differently (objectively?).



Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-12-18 09:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bradley 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 10:11 PM - Post#252640    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I appreciate how you feel and how disappointed it must be not to have played the deciding game on a neutral court. Both teams are good, not great, hard nosed teams that you could flip a coin as to who would best represent the IL. Obviously, Yale and Cornell did not deserve the opportunity but fortunately, they were trounced in the semi-finals of the IvyMadness absurdity.

I do have great empathy for the fans and more importantly, the players who will be NIT bound. They deserve better.

The outcome may well have been the same if played on a neutral court but we will never know.

Harvard was classy as to how they handled the situation and I would not be the least bit surprised if they come back with vengeance next year. Coach Donahue and Penn players are to be respected as well.

 
penn nation 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 10:12 PM - Post#252641    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

We went over this earlier in the year, and I know you disagree, but Penn was at a major disadvantage when playing in Allston. Lots of games in a relatively short time span, plus the ridiculous Saturday early start in Allston after having to schlep in from Hanover. That's not something Harvard ever has to worry about when it ventures to P-land.

In any event--I think most if not all Penn fans agree with your other critiques. Just remember that Penn was not the ringleader that caused this tourney to happen. I would be more than happy if things went back to the 14 game one.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-12-18 10:23 PM - Post#252644    
    In response to penn nation

Agreed on reverting back to tournament.

Are you serious? Penn is at a disadvantage because it's on the road, but Harvard isn't. I see, it is a burden to travel to New England, but not from New England.

 
penn nation 
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Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 10:31 PM - Post#252645    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Penn has many games in a short period of time during this tretch--Harvard did not experience as many Ivy games in as short of a period. Thank our friends at Princeton for this, as well as our Ivy friends whose insistence on a tourney made this occur.

Penn takes the longest road trip of the season to Hanover. Followed by a early am arrival in Allston/Cambridge, but plays an early 6 pm game (as opposed to other Saturday night Ivy games on other weeks in Allston that started hours later).

The trip from Princeton to Penn is much shorter.

Plus we were banged up and/or sick, although in truth that's no excuse given what Harvard has had to deal with this year.

Edited by penn nation on 03-12-18 10:32 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 10:32 PM - Post#252646    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Look, this isn't about which team is better. Nor am I maligning Penn's basketball team in any way. Donahue has done a great job with the program in a short time. I never went there except to note that winning seemed to follow HCA in this instance.

I absolutely want to congratulate Penn and wish you success against Kansas.

I'm just hoping that the league learns from this experiment.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-12-18 10:35 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Big R&B Truth 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 10:33 PM - Post#252647    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
We went over this earlier in the year, and I know you disagree, but Penn was at a major disadvantage when playing in Allston. Lots of games in a relatively short time span, plus the ridiculous Saturday early start in Allston after having to schlep in from Hanover. That's not something Harvard ever has to worry about when it ventures to P-land.
.



Hanover to Cambridge is a 2 to 2 1/2 hour drive. It hardly qualifies as a schlep.

 
penn nation 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 10:36 PM - Post#252648    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

It does when you compare it to the trip between Penn and Princeton.

And in the winter, you had better hope the weather is not wintry otherwise getting to and from Hanover can be a real adventure.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-12-18 10:37 PM - Post#252650    
    In response to penn nation

Road trips are supposed to be road trips. That's why they are reciprocal.

Conference tournaments are a different story.

 
penn nation 
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03-12-18 10:44 PM - Post#252652    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

No argument on the second point.

 
Big R&B Truth 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 11:21 PM - Post#252656    
    In response to penn nation

I have been living in New England for over 25 years, and I frequently travel to NH and VT on winter weekends to go skiing. I can tell you that there is usually only 4 or 5 days in Jan and Feb when winter weather impacts travel. When this happens, the main highways are usually cleared within a few hours. I have to admit that Cambridge does do a crappy job clearing its streets.

 
penn nation 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-12-18 11:25 PM - Post#252658    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

Thank you for the late night laugh!

Now I can go to sleep.



 
TheLine 
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Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-13-18 07:51 AM - Post#252664    
    In response to penn nation

Most of the folks on this thread are from one of the basketball "haves" in the league (I guess Penn now qualifies as a "have" again and I'm giving Princeton the benefit of the doubt). I'm wondering about the opinion from fans of the "have nots." If you are from one of the BCCD universtiies, what do you think?

I graduated from both Penn and Columbia and am an avid supporter of both. While the Penn side of me does have mixed opinions (I totally get the argument that it could be best for the league to reward and send the season conference winner to the dance), the Columbia side of me likes that there is more for the players to play for even when you're not competing for 1st.

Also my sense is that the coaches, players, students, and schools are all for a tournament, and the only holdouts are older alums from the "haves." Am I right about that?

I'm not trying to make a value judgment on one side of the debate v. the other, just am trying to make sure I understand who is on each side of the debate.




Edited by TheLine on 03-13-18 07:51 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Silver Maple 
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03-13-18 08:31 AM - Post#252666    
    In response to TheLine

Agreed. Dartmouth is my grad school alma mater, and I definitely root for them (as long as they're not playing Penn). As a fan of the Big Green, I think the Ivy tournament has given the program a lot more to play for, and new potential paths to success. Dartmouth has actually recruited surprisingly well in recent years, and I think that the tournament had at least a bit to do with that. (Now, if only the coach could figure out a way to win with those players.) If I weren't primarily a Penn fan, the Dartmouth fan in me would probably be a lot more unhappy about the prospect of the tournament staying in Philadelphia.

BTW, having made that Hanover-to-Boston drive many times, I can say that It's unpredictable. Sometimes it's a breeze, sometimes (based on traffic and weather) it's a total nightmare.

 
JadwinGeorge 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-13-18 08:37 AM - Post#252668    
    In response to TheLine

I was against the tournament, until it happened. I have been converted but believe a neutral site ought to be considered strongly. The result this year on the mend side shows why. Penn and Harvard were equal in most respects coming into the tournament. Neutral sites were always selected for playoffs. Penn won this year by the margin generally accorded the home team. That is unfortunate in my opinion

 
palestra38 
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Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-13-18 08:46 AM - Post#252671    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

I too am a Penn/Columbia grad, although my fandom is pretty much 100% Penn (I do root for CU against everyone else). The arguments being made are all legitimate. The most essential test of our best team is over 14 games, and it fits with the Ivy ideal. That being said, there is a tournament and it is designed to showcase the League. No, it is not fair that Penn gets a home court advantage, and there is little doubt it is an advantage in the tournament, as the last 2 years have shown. But there is no other arena which provides the show--I was listening to Freddie Coleman last night on ESPN Radio and he was singing the praises of the Ivy tournament at the Palestra (and said the Penn-Kansas game would be close). You're not going to promote the brand nearly as well anywhere else, plus, other than Princeton, there is no other Ivy arena that can handle it. So do we pay a lot of money to host the tournament in a 3rd party site, hoping (as HarvardGrad suggests) that a tournament in a place like Foxwoods would garner large socializing crowds of Ivy-ites in a giant Kumbaya? It makes no business sense at all, since there is insufficient planning time once the seeds are set to get people to make plans and block rooms at a cost that will get people to come. Perhaps Alumni Hall at St John's would work, even though it is another school's home arena and there really is no place to stay there for those travelling (the argument that there is no place to stay near the Palestra is ridiculous--there are 8000 hotel rooms within 2 miles).

But I realize it isn't fair to keep it at the Palestra---will the Ivy Presidents be willing to absorb the very substantial costs of holding it elsewhere?

 
TheLine 
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03-13-18 08:46 AM - Post#252672    
    In response to JadwinGeorge

The neutral site issue is a fair one, I wish there was a good solution to that but I'm not seeing one. I was very happy about the student attendance, which kind of kills Mohegan Sun as a venue and leaves Bridgeport as the best neutral court option - not optimal.

I'd guess that the league will need to think about rotating the tournament.


 
bradley 
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03-13-18 08:51 AM - Post#252674    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

The opening post for this topic suggested that the Palestra would not be a significant advantage for the Quakers is needless to say ridiculous. The Palestra was clearly, as it should be, an advantage for the Quakers last Sunday. Vegas obviously recognizes the benefits of home court advantage when establishing point spreads. A neutral site clearly was and is the right way to determine a conference champ as you suggest.

If the IL geniuses continue to press on with the Palestra for next year highly unlikely. it will be revealing.

Harvard did get screwed this year although I do not feel bad for them as they voted to create IvyMadness in the current format. But I do feel bad for the players and the Crimson fans who had enough common sense to either object to the tournament or at the very least, the format.



 
TheLine 
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03-13-18 09:05 AM - Post#252680    
    In response to bradley

The Palestra crowd did give Penn a slight advantage but you know what - if you want to dance then win the frigging game. I get on Penn fans for whining when they feel like they got jobbed by refs. Excuses are for losers.

Penn has to play away at Kansas in the NCAAs, that isn't "fair" either. Whatever. Play the game.




 
Streamers 
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03-13-18 09:26 AM - Post#252685    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
The opening post for this topic suggested that the Palestra would not be a significant advantage for the Quakers is needless to say ridiculous.



I stand by my statements in that post. As I pointed out before. I still do not think HCA mattered at all in the Yale game. What I did not count on was the size and activity of the crowd in the final. Even then, I do not believe it was the difference in the game.

Here is the takeaway. The HCA problem is really only an issue in years when the home team makes the final. So, unless we assume Penn makes the final for the foreseeable future, what's the problem?

Oh, wait... maybe you have a point ;-)

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
03-13-18 09:29 AM - Post#252687    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:
The opening post for this topic suggested that the Palestra would not be a significant advantage for the Quakers is needless to say ridiculous. The Palestra was clearly, as it should be, an advantage for the Quakers last Sunday. Vegas obviously recognizes the benefits of home court advantage when establishing point spreads. A neutral site clearly was and is the right way to determine a conference champ as you suggest.

If the IL geniuses continue to press on with the Palestra for next year highly unlikely. it will be revealing.

Harvard did get screwed this year although I do not feel bad for them as they voted to create IvyMadness in the current format. But I do feel bad for the players and the Crimson fans who had enough common sense to either object to the tournament or at the very least, the format.





Amazingly enough, the Princeton women somehow found a way to prevail against the Quakers on Sunday.

And then some...



 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 8314

Reg: 12-07-04
03-13-18 11:05 AM - Post#252720    
    In response to TheLine

  • TheLine Said:
I graduated from both Penn and Columbia and am an avid supporter of both.



Did you rewatch the Mesiner taunt yet on that inbounds pass? Maybe the dumbest decision by any player this season as it completely lit the fuze for Penn.

  • penn nation Said:
Penn takes the longest road trip of the season to Hanover. Followed by a early am arrival in Allston/Cambridge, but plays an early 6 pm game (as opposed to other Saturday night Ivy games on other weeks in Allston that started hours later).



For the record, this game started even earlier, at 4 PM.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11764

Reg: 12-02-04
03-13-18 11:08 AM - Post#252721    
    In response to Quakers03

  • Quakers03 Said:

For the record, this game started even earlier, at 4 PM.



Right. Silly of me to forget NESN needed a full hour of pre-game Bruins programming before the early evening hockey game.


 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3902

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
03-13-18 11:57 AM - Post#252742    
    In response to Quakers03

  • Quakers03 Said:
Did you rewatch the Mesiner taunt yet on that inbounds pass? Maybe the dumbest decision by any player this season as it completely lit the fuze for Penn.


You won't give that play up, will you?

If you have a link then I'll rewatch, not that it's likely I'll be able to see anything definitive or my opinion is going to change. I agree it wound up firing up Penn and did nothing for Columbia. Penn's attitude is a big reason why they won the league - they are more than the sum of their parts because of the way they back up each other.


 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 8314

Reg: 12-07-04
03-13-18 12:20 PM - Post#252749    
    In response to TheLine

No, I won't. It was completely uncalled for and has yet to be acknowledged. It was beyond definitive and every non-partial person I've shown it to has been blown away and wonders what he could have been thinking. Must have just been a brain fart in the moment. I'll get a link to you.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3455

Reg: 11-23-04
03-13-18 07:07 PM - Post#252875    
    In response to Quakers03

BTW, Brown played all of it's home Saturday games at 6, including the Penn game. That let's us old guys choose between the "Early Bird" at 4, or a reasonable dinner after the game, and still get us home at Bert "be home" Byleven. (Quote from Boomer, B'77).

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4674

Reg: 11-22-04
03-13-18 07:33 PM - Post#252884    
    In response to Quakers03

Was Meisner’s move really that offensive in the scheme of things? I understand why it fired us up, but to me it seems like both a silly thing to do and a silly thing to get mad about.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 8314

Reg: 12-07-04
Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-13-18 08:40 PM - Post#252902    
    In response to SomeGuy

Yes. It was quite offensive. He moved even closer to Caleb, stood over him and then glared. It was bad enough in real-time that almost the entire Penn bench immediately reacted the same way. I guarantee you it will be remembered when they play next year as well. My big gripe (and why you're still reading about it) was the way it was completely ignored by the CU fans to the point that one fan even blamed the Caleb 3 on the official talking to Meisner and not "allowing him to crowd." I have watched it way too many times because it is the perfect demonstration of how these guys came together and won as a team and every person I showed it to was taken aback. It was a full on taunt and rightfully ended that game.

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4713
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
03-13-18 10:07 PM - Post#252917    
    In response to Quakers03

I was 12 feet away when this happened. What Meissner attempted to do was obvious, and the Penn bench reaction even more so.


 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 554

Age: 46
Reg: 05-19-16
03-15-18 02:58 PM - Post#253286    
    In response to Chip Bayers

Kansas effectively had home court advantage with so many supporters in the crowd.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 809

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
03-15-18 04:55 PM - Post#253308    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

They certainly did have home court advantage -- I guess the benefit of being #1 seed. It was so sweet when Penn was up by 10 pts in the 1st half and the crowd as well as KU players were dazed. I love it when the IL teams get these big time programs nervous. It also helps the reputation of the league to some extent by playing tough. Playing well at the Big Dance far exceeds the PR that comes out of IvyMadness.

Today was a perfect example as to why it is important that the Il sends its best to the Big Dance. This year, or Harvard (with Towns) would have competed well while Yale or Cornell probably would have been trounced. Although Penn should have been a #15 seed, it is virtually impossible to win a game as a #16 or really #15 seed. Until the IL is truly a legitimate 2 bid league, all you can hope for is that the best 1 or 2 teams win IvyMadness every year.

To truly enhance the reputation of the league, IL must have a consistent #12 seed that wins not only one game but occasionally two games and magically 3 once in a blue moon.

Penn did the league well today considering their seed and being a road team. It probably did not hurt that the KU big barely played.

I always amazed how some proponents of IvyMadness do not consider reality but I guess the motto is let's have fun.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
03-15-18 05:56 PM - Post#253311    
    In response to bradley

  • bradley Said:

To truly enhance the reputation of the league, IL must have a consistent #12 seed that wins not only one game but occasionally two games and magically 3 once in a blue moon.

...

I always amazed how some proponents of IvyMadness do not consider reality but I guess the motto is let's have fun.



While I'm disappointed that Penn didn't bring its "A" game today as well, the "reality" is that from 1980 to 2016, the Ivy champ won two games in the NCAA Tournament just once.

I believe that the tournament must be given a good number of years to see if it can match that.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3455

Reg: 11-23-04
Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-15-18 06:04 PM - Post#253312    
    In response to Go Green

How about 128 teams, first round at the higher seed? Won't happen, the Big 5 would hate it.

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 887
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
Re: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?
03-16-18 08:30 AM - Post#253376    
    In response to Old Bear

  • Old Bear Said:
How about 128 teams, first round at the higher seed? Won't happen, the Big 5 would hate it.



Sure it could. And magically, the Big 5 teams would all be seeded higher.

 
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