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Username Post: Can we talk about Home Court Advantage?        (Topic#21313)
Streamers 
Postdoc
Posts: 2853
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-10-18 10:21 AM - Post#251658    

The Penn opening line of -7 (now down to -5.5) clearly reflected a bump for HCA. I know most on the board think it is a big deal this weekend. I'm skeptical. Let me break it down:

There are maybe 4 aspects to HCA:
- Venue familiarity. Really? by now all these teams know their way around the Palestra. Penn does not even get their own locker room.
- Crowd. Penn will have their cheering section, and will likely be pulling for Cornell, but this is not like the old days when we had students there for a Princeton game and the crowd was really into it. I have only counted 2 or three times all year for true home games when the crowd was making any real noise.
- Refs. If anything, this will be a disadvantage because the refs will want to avoid any perceived 'home' calls.
- Travel & Fatigue. This will be an issue for both teams tomorrow. Today? not so much.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 555

Age: 46
Reg: 05-19-16
03-11-18 01:28 PM - Post#251953    
    In response to Streamers

I definitely can see where HCA made a difference for Penn down the stretch in the Finals. They got a call on their final possession that I thought should have clearly been Harvards ball. They survived a Harvard comeback after going flat in the back end of the 2nd half. They couldn't secure the rebound on the final possession and allowed Harvard two shots to tie.

They deserve to win and they did but to take this issue off the table the League should continue the dialogue on preventing such a potentially potent HCA.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1202

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-11-18 01:30 PM - Post#251955    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

Either team could have won this game.

HCA was decisive. No question about it.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11857

Reg: 12-02-04
03-11-18 01:32 PM - Post#251956    
    In response to GoBigGreenBasketball

In terms of the refs, there were any number of shots attempted by Penn players near the hoop, drawing contact, where the refs sat on their whistles.

Obviously the home court played a huge role in getting Penn back in the game--from that point on, just a supercharged atmosphere.

 
GoBigGreenBasketball 
Masters Student
Posts: 555

Age: 46
Reg: 05-19-16
03-11-18 01:38 PM - Post#251957    
    In response to penn nation

Even though I thought HCA played a role. I don’t have any issue with the tourney and feel we’re still sending the best team to the NCAA this year. At full strength i think Harvard pulls this out despite HCA.
"...no excuses - only results!”


 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
03-11-18 01:43 PM - Post#251962    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Perhaps Harvard should blame the fools who have been investing their endowment. A reasonable rate of would have provided them with more than enough money to build the basketball team their shining new home in Allston that might been worthy of hosting the Ivy Tournament.

 
84grad 
Freshman
Posts: 68

Age: 59
Reg: 11-09-17
03-11-18 02:04 PM - Post#251973    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

Clearly, HCA was a key factor today. To deny that would be ridiculous.

And while I will always hope in obvious vain for the elimination of the tourney — and as difficult as it is to say this right after the game as a diehard Harvard supporter— I have no problem with the tournament being at the Palestra at least most of the time, if not all of the time. Let the Ivy League take its place in Philly Big 5 history. It’s really a special place.

Then again, as I have indicated here before, at my urging my wife even named our cat Palestra.

 
Chip Bayers 
Postdoc
Posts: 4899
Chip Bayers
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
03-11-18 02:20 PM - Post#251979    
    In response to 84grad

I didn’t see any HCA on that ridiculous charge call against Rothschild late in the game on what was a clear flop.


 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19776

Reg: 11-21-04
03-11-18 02:26 PM - Post#251985    
    In response to Chip Bayers

The refs held their whistles almost all day, and I was fine with that because it was even.

But the advantage of having the fans in one of the world's louder buildings pulling for the 2nd seeded team makes the tournament uneven.

But if the purpose is branding, as I think it is, there can be no other location for this--can you imagine it in Bridgeport? Really? So it's either fairness or the best show.

 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 273

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-11-18 02:55 PM - Post#251995    
    In response to Chip Bayers

  • Chip Bayers Said:
I didn’t see any HCA on that ridiculous charge call against Rothschild late in the game on what was a clear flop.



That was just a make up call for when Bassey flexed and knocked AJ halfway across the Palestra. (In actuality both guys extended their arms and got called for offensive fouls.)

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11857

Reg: 12-02-04
03-11-18 02:57 PM - Post#251996    
    In response to digamma

Yeah, but this game was not really about one team getting totally hosed by the refs.

Although, had the outcome been different, it might well have been about second half FTs not made. Oy.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 814

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
03-11-18 03:00 PM - Post#251997    
    In response to palestra38

Fairness and doing what is right should drive the train. Figure out how to best brand the product after starting out on the premise of doing the right thing -- they are not mutually exclusive although there are always some trade offs. You rarely go wrong by doing the right thing.

I will be very surprised if the tournament remains at the Palestra next year. Penn women's team wins by 1-3 points today , it will be another reason.



 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
03-11-18 04:00 PM - Post#252020    
    In response to bradley


Can only imagine how badly the Princeton women would be beating Penn but for the HCA....




 
Big R&B Truth 
Senior
Posts: 394
Big R&B Truth
Loc: Back Waters of New Englan...
Reg: 11-23-04
03-11-18 04:17 PM - Post#252028    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:

Can only imagine how badly the Princeton women would be beating Penn but for the HCA....






It looks like the tournament could be staying at the Palestra.


 
Streamers 
Postdoc
Posts: 2853
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-11-18 04:34 PM - Post#252037    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

HCA was not what beat Harvard today. Losing Towns was part of it, some really bad shot selection in the 2nd half was part of it, Lewis deciding to stay off the boards most of the game was part of it.

It was a loud Penn crowd (and way bigger than I thought, and, wait for it, a nearly full student section) that certainly helped. The officiating was little random at times, but did not favor either team. Neither team looked at all fatigued, which was a big surprise to me.

Penn, for its part, made it closer than it needed to be with some all to typical FT misses down the stretch.

Give Bassey his props for stepping up in Towns' absence.

All you out there whining about the Palestra as the venue, I'll remind you of this when we end up in Jadwin next year with PU in the mix.

 
Go Green 
Masters Student
Posts: 450

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
03-11-18 04:57 PM - Post#252051    
    In response to Big R&B Truth

  • Big R&B Truth Said:
  • Go Green Said:

Can only imagine how badly the Princeton women would be beating Penn but for the HCA....






It looks like the tournament could be staying at the Palestra.




That would be ironic, wouldn't it? Banghart has been the loudest critic of the tournament, and her own team's dominant performance quells any momentum tourney opponents may have to get changes made.




 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4684

Reg: 11-22-04
03-11-18 05:00 PM - Post#252053    
    In response to Streamers

Plenty of Harvard fans there too, so I was pretty happy with the crowd and an environment. Would have liked a sellout though.

And I know it’s kind of canned excitement for the anti madness crowd, but our league and our kids historically miss out on that winner take all situations— that was fun today, and you could see it on both teams faces at the start.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3561

Reg: 02-04-06
03-11-18 09:19 PM - Post#252197    
    In response to SomeGuy

TV guys had locked in on a particular Penn lovely to show at every break in the first half. She was having a great time.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11857

Reg: 12-02-04
03-11-18 09:26 PM - Post#252200    
    In response to SRP

I noticed her, too. Close to the floor and by the end line.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1935

Reg: 02-15-15
03-11-18 09:35 PM - Post#252207    
    In response to penn nation

Palestra is leading candidate for next years ILT, but not as strong as the first two years.

 
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