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Username Post: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament        (Topic#21336)
palestra38 
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03-12-18 09:35 AM - Post#252285    

"“It’s a great environment here; a big showcase for our league,” said Amaker, whose club shot 41.8 percent from the floor and a perfect 12-for-12 at the line. “It’s considered one of the crown jewels of college basketball and it’s in our league.

“That’s a wonderful thing for us to stay attached to if possible. But what an opportunity we had (yesterday). To win here would’ve been special.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/college/colleg e...

 
Go Green 
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03-12-18 09:37 AM - Post#252286    
    In response to palestra38

These sentiments are pretty consistent with what he's been saying all along regarding the current tournament format.

Classy comments. Hope they can make a good run in the NIT!

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 09:43 AM - Post#252290    
    In response to Go Green

Don't expect him to say anything different to the media. Tommy's a professional.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-12-18 09:43 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
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03-12-18 09:43 AM - Post#252291    
    In response to Go Green

The entire Harvard team was classy, both during the game and in their comments afterwards. I hope they beat Marquette.

 
Go Green 
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Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 09:46 AM - Post#252294    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Don't expect him to say anything different to the media. Tommy's a professional.



And I presume that you think that Banghart (by far the most vocal tourney critic among coaches) is not a professional.



 
TheLine 
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Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 10:23 AM - Post#252316    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Don't expect him to say anything different to the media. Tommy's a professional.


If professional = understanding of the big picture then yes. Amaker has had experience in 3 major conferences and that has given him a different perspective than most of us.

If you also mean that Amaker is too professional to vent about The Palestra being a home field advantage for Penn then point taken. It has been 10 years since The Palestra was that loud.

There's no perfect answer for a tourney site. The Palestra is the only available venue that's going to deliver an atmosphere like Sunday's but it sure felt like an advantage for Penn. The problem for the league is that all the alternatives suck.


 
PennFan10 
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03-12-18 11:48 AM - Post#252350    
    In response to TheLine

Amaker promotes the Palestra not because he is biting his tongue and being "professional", that's ridiculous. He is promoting the Palestra because he actually believes it's the best location for the league.

If he didn't want it there he wouldn't promote it. Every other coach has been asked the same questions repeatedly and no one else is promoting it (Mitch Henderson last year was being "professional" in his comments certainly).

Saying Tommy has some other agenda behind closed doors and his comments are somehow not genuine seems preposterous.

 
Go Green 
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03-12-18 11:54 AM - Post#252357    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:


If he didn't want it there he wouldn't promote it. Every other coach has been asked the same questions repeatedly and no one else is promoting it (Mitch Henderson last year was being "professional" in his comments certainly).




The Dartmouth women's coach has shown similar favorable enthusiasm for having the tournament at the Palestra.

Now if she could only actually get there...

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
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Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 12:17 PM - Post#252373    
    In response to palestra38

Is there a link somewhere to the postgame pressers? Nothing on YouTube that I can find.

 
Silver Maple 
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Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 02:22 PM - Post#252444    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Tommy Amaker, regardless of what he actually thinks, has absolutely nothing (NOTHING!) to gain by criticizing the choice of the Palestra in public. What he might or might not be saying in private is anybody's guess. So, because he's a smart, diplomatic guy, he's going to say the smart, diplomatic thing.

Courtney Banghart, OTOH, while clearly a very good coach, has a tendency to run her mouth without thinking.


 
Silver Maple 
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03-12-18 02:28 PM - Post#252447    
    In response to Silver Maple

As to the question of holding the tournament at the Palestra moving forward, I'm torn. On one hand, from the standpoint of entertainment value, the Palestra is currently, by far, the best choice. Being that college basketball in general, and the IL Tournament in particular, is an entertainment product, this is a crucial consideration. However, there's no denying that holding this thing every year on Penn's home court isn't 'fair.' Over time, I fear that this lack of equity will compromise the entertainment value of the product. So, even if the Powers That Be choose to stay in Philadelphia for another year, I really think that they need to find a viable alternative for this entertainment product they've created. I'm skeptical that some shittty little neutral arena in Connecticut is the solution.

 
palestra38 
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03-12-18 02:32 PM - Post#252449    
    In response to Silver Maple

Simple, have each school have a contest to create their own special version of a Palestra and then build it, funded by the rich alumni of each school, who could get naming rights. With each school possessing a Palestra, the games could always be played at a (if not the) Palestra. There, "fairness" problem solved.

 
Go Green 
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03-12-18 02:44 PM - Post#252458    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Simple, have each school have a contest to create their own special version of a Palestra and then build it, funded by the rich alumni of each school, who could get naming rights. With each school possessing a Palestra, the games could always be played at a (if not the) Palestra. There, "fairness" problem solved.



Wouldn't it be cheaper to just give the higher seeds a three-point lead at tipoff when they play Penn?

Again, "fairness" problem solved.

 
palestra38 
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03-12-18 02:49 PM - Post#252461    
    In response to Go Green

Not according to CU fan Chet Forte---he proclaimed Penn had a 6 point advantage. You'll never satisfy some people with your solution. Mine is foolproof.

 
Silver Maple 
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03-12-18 02:58 PM - Post#252464    
    In response to palestra38

How about this: keep it at the Palestra, but put a piece of duct tape over each Penn fan's mouth. They'd still be able to clap their hands and stamp their feet and hold up snarky rollouts, but the place would be a lot quieter.

Duct tape to the rescue, yet again.

 
Quakers03 
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03-12-18 03:01 PM - Post#252466    
    In response to Silver Maple

Maybe if any other team had fans that care as much as Penn fans, this wouldn't be such an issue.

 
rbg 
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03-12-18 03:31 PM - Post#252481    
    In response to Quakers03

T.P.F.K.A.D.W - You should be able to see all the commentary, including the press conferences, at the Ivy League Network links

Friday Shootarounds - https://www.ivyleaguenetwork.com/ivyleague/game/li...

Saturday Semifinals - https://www.ivyleaguenetwork.com/ivyleague/game/li...

Sunday Finals - https://www.ivyleaguenetwork.com/ivyleague/game/li...

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-12-18 03:53 PM - Post#252493    
    In response to rbg

First, diplomatic is a better word to describe Amaker's position, and - I believe - his public position on the Palestra.

There is no question that providing one participant home court advantage can affect outcomes. Also, there is no question that providing one set of students and fans the convenience of walking/traveling to their home arena is a great benefit to those fans and an inconvenience to all others. Such an inconvenience, that many students neither have the time nor the resources to attend.

There are numerous reasons not to play at the Palestra. How about we rotate, and come back to the Palestra in 15 years. Sound fair to Penn fans and residents of University City? Of course not.



 
Quakers03 
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Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 04:08 PM - Post#252496    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

You make it seem like Penn fans are beating our chests about keeping this thing in Philly. I don't think you'll find a Quaker fan on this site who disagrees that it's unfair. The question is, how do we fix it and not turn it into an emotionally empty event like most of the others. Maybe if you had a real arena, we wouldn't be here.

 
palestra38 
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03-12-18 04:09 PM - Post#252497    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

WE all understand that playing all the time in one team's home court is not "fair." We also all understand that only one other Ivy team has an arena that can host an event like this and that one is 45 miles from the Palestra.

Is Harvard willing to finance the cost of renting Bridgeport or another similar arena, since I see no likelihood that many others will be so willing. What do you then suggest?

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 04:16 PM - Post#252501    
    In response to Quakers03

I see push back and agreement from all over the place. I did sit with a Penn fan this weekend who used the 'best arena' argument so I could be projecting.

I agree and expect that there are competing arguments and interests. What I push back against is the concept that this is great for fans and players because it all depends who you are and where you're from.

If Harvard had a larger arena, I'm sure I'd have mixed feelings as Penn fans likely do. In that event, given the power everyone thinks HYPP carry, we'd probably already have a rotation of home courts.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-12-18 04:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
section110 
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Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 05:06 PM - Post#252527    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

If the nation's wealthiest university wants to play in a 1600 seat, unglorified high school, that's it choice. But it disqualifies it from hosting a league tournament. It's Jadwin, the Palestra or pay for a neutral 6500 to 8000 seat neutral arena.

 
penn nation 
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Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 05:28 PM - Post#252536    
    In response to section110

I think that's right. Harvard can't have it both ways. Its ability to offer a better financial aid package than its rivals is one of the advantages it currently has.

But it then can't scream "unfair" just because other institutions are putting the resources that they do have (although not as great as Harvard's) into having clearly superior athletic facilities--at least for basketball.

 
Jeff2sf 
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03-12-18 05:30 PM - Post#252538    
    In response to section110

... or higher seed.

BTW - Is it either MSG (way too big) or Columbia (way too small) for NYC locations? No one else has a 6K gym?

 
penn nation 
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03-12-18 05:36 PM - Post#252541    
    In response to Jeff2sf

St. Johns seats 5600.



 
Streamers 
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03-12-18 05:36 PM - Post#252542    
    In response to penn nation

Maybe Dunph can get the league a deal on Temple’s place.

Seriously, I’ve been clear in my view that HCA is overrated, but being part of the crowd on Sunday made it feel real.

I cannot be objective about this. I just know the other Ivy facilities are not worthy (including Jadwin) and any gloomy bus stop arena along I-95 would be no fun and likely poorly attended compared to what we saw this past weekend.

Then again, this is a TV show at its heart, right? So does it really matter where it is held as long as the lighting and internet connections are good? Charge premium prices to be part of the studio audience.

 
palestra38 
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03-12-18 05:46 PM - Post#252546    
    In response to penn nation

Westchester County Center is 5000, Webster Bank Arena (Bridgeport) is 10000 and the XL Center in Hartford is 16000

 
penn nation 
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03-12-18 05:55 PM - Post#252552    
    In response to palestra38

I live 10 minutes away from the County Center--it's a drecky arena. Bridgeport is much, much nicer.

  • palestra38 Said:
Westchester County Center is 5000, Webster Bank Arena (Bridgeport) is 10000 and the XL Center in Hartford is 16000




 
digamma 
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03-12-18 06:00 PM - Post#252555    
    In response to penn nation

There's another solution here--we (Harvard fans) get our fan base off of our collective you know whats and buy tickets. I couldn't go this year but I must have gotten a half dozen calls up until the week before the tournament from the tournament ticket office. It doesn't have to be as big of a HCA as it was yesterday.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-12-18 08:30 PM - Post#252588    
    In response to digamma

Not fair to students. Again, Cornell and Harvard students had to travel 4 to 5 hours each way and find lodging. Penn was on break so students would have to get hotels. If that's what it takes to follow your classmates, and only Penn is allowed to host, there shouldn't be a tournament.

 
Mike Porter 
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03-12-18 09:00 PM - Post#252597    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I LOVE the Palestra and frankly I don’t think you can find another gym in the northeast that can bring the same atmosphere. That said, I completely agree it isn’t “fair” (though a lot of things aren’t fair about Ivy sports) and understand the complaint and could be convinced why it shouldn’t always be at the Palestra.

That said, what is your solution? I see you’ve certainly voiced your concerns/complaints but I don’t recall seeing your alternate solutions in these last few threads? Might have missed it though so curious what you’re suggesting.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
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03-12-18 09:14 PM - Post#252604    
    In response to Mike Porter

From the start I've pushed Mohegan Sun. It provides everything - basketball arena, hotels, free parking, restaurants, entertainment. It even provides massive indoor conference hall space where participating schools (and/or the league) could organize hosted events, allowing for the socialization that is completely missing at the Palestra.


 
weinhauers_ghost 
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03-12-18 10:22 PM - Post#252627    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
St. Johns seats 5600.





St. John's is also a long way from midtown Manhattan.

 
penn nation 
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03-12-18 10:25 PM - Post#252630    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Well, if you're looking for a 6,000 seat arena closer than St. Johns you're probably looking at the null set.

  • weinhauers_ghost Said:
  • penn nation Said:
St. Johns seats 5600.





St. John's is also a long way from midtown Manhattan.




 
Bruno 
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03-12-18 10:32 PM - Post#252631    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Sun would be a great venue, a real destination and geographically in the middle. Driveable for all and not far from Hartford airport.

I don’t think we fill that arena though.

HCA is a factor. Home win pct in the league was 70 pct. Penn won over 80 pct of its games at home vs. 69 on the road. Harvard won 37 pct of its games on the road, 83 pct at home. You adjust for higher SOS on the road, you adjust for the fact that unlike in the regular season the Palestra doesn’t have only Penn fans for the ILT, you can discount the win percentages some. But it ain’t 50 / 50.

There is no other arena in the league that should host this. It’s Palestra or go outside. And if fair is what you’re after, go outside.

LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Silver Maple 
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Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-13-18 09:40 AM - Post#252669    
    In response to Bruno

  • Said:
Bruno And if fair is what you’re after, go outside.





True. But here's the thing: I don't think the people who make these decisions (the presidents, ADs and IL administrators) care in the slightest about fairness. None of the decisions they've made in all the years I've followed Ivy League sports suggests otherwise. So, if I were to be given 30 minutes to stand in front of this group of people and make an argument for moving the tournament to a neutral site, I would make sure the word 'fair' never crossed my lips. I would talk about the two things they clearly do care about: brand development and money.

 
TheLine 
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03-13-18 10:21 AM - Post#252683    
    In response to Silver Maple

Word.

The Ivy League is based on tilting the playing field.


 
Bruno 
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Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-13-18 11:34 AM - Post#252709    
    In response to Silver Maple

There is a clip somewhere on YouTube of Bob Ley and Dick Vitale arguing about this very topic - in 1986.

Brown at Syracuse in the NCAAs, playing at the Carrier Dome. Vitale tees off on it, because it's clearly not 'fair', and it tips the playing field in an event that's supposed to be about better basketball.

Ley basically argues that just because it isn't fair doesn't mean it's wrong. It's ok that it be about a great game atmosphere, that it generate revenue, etc.

My own sense is that 'fair' would be nice. That a great tournament atmosphere for all of the teams and the fans would be nicer. It probably serves more constituents better to have it at a great venue outside the league. But if it's going to happen in the league, there's only one place to play it.

But honestly I'm just happy to have a freaking tournament, so I'm ok if they play it at my high school gym.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Jeff2sf 
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03-13-18 11:38 AM - Post#252711    
    In response to Bruno

I'll have to view the clip but my initial reaction is "Syracuse is higher seed, of course it's played there". Only thing purely unfair is if Syracuse was higher seed while visiting Brown.

I'm "mad" about being a 16 seed and that Wichita's not close to anything. I don't particularly care that Kansas has a home court-ish advantage. Seems reasonable enough to me.

 
Bruno 
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03-13-18 12:40 PM - Post#252732    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Don’t go after the 1986 Bears.

They’re all I have.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Old Bear 
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Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-13-18 07:58 PM - Post#252872    
    In response to Jeff2sf

I'm going to back up Bruno here, and disagree with him. 1) The'86 Regional was played at the Dome, which gave the HCA to 'Cuse for three rounds, though I believe they lost to Navy and the Admiral, despite having 4 or 5 NBA players in the line-up. But, if the Ivy Tourney is to establish the NCAA bid, then the HCA should not be happenstance, even at the expense of the "best" venue. I'm jiggy with the highest seed, or a neutral venue.

 
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