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Username Post: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament        (Topic#21336)
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
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Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 04:16 PM - Post#252501    
    In response to Quakers03

I see push back and agreement from all over the place. I did sit with a Penn fan this weekend who used the 'best arena' argument so I could be projecting.

I agree and expect that there are competing arguments and interests. What I push back against is the concept that this is great for fans and players because it all depends who you are and where you're from.

If Harvard had a larger arena, I'm sure I'd have mixed feelings as Penn fans likely do. In that event, given the power everyone thinks HYPP carry, we'd probably already have a rotation of home courts.

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-12-18 04:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
section110 
Masters Student
Posts: 750

Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 05:06 PM - Post#252527    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

If the nation's wealthiest university wants to play in a 1600 seat, unglorified high school, that's it choice. But it disqualifies it from hosting a league tournament. It's Jadwin, the Palestra or pay for a neutral 6500 to 8000 seat neutral arena.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11263

Reg: 12-02-04
Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-12-18 05:28 PM - Post#252536    
    In response to section110

I think that's right. Harvard can't have it both ways. Its ability to offer a better financial aid package than its rivals is one of the advantages it currently has.

But it then can't scream "unfair" just because other institutions are putting the resources that they do have (although not as great as Harvard's) into having clearly superior athletic facilities--at least for basketball.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3756

Reg: 11-22-04
03-12-18 05:30 PM - Post#252538    
    In response to section110

... or higher seed.

BTW - Is it either MSG (way too big) or Columbia (way too small) for NYC locations? No one else has a 6K gym?

 
penn nation 
Professor
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Reg: 12-02-04
03-12-18 05:36 PM - Post#252541    
    In response to Jeff2sf

St. Johns seats 5600.



 
Streamers 
Postdoc
Posts: 2375
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-18 05:36 PM - Post#252542    
    In response to penn nation

Maybe Dunph can get the league a deal on Temple’s place.

Seriously, I’ve been clear in my view that HCA is overrated, but being part of the crowd on Sunday made it feel real.

I cannot be objective about this. I just know the other Ivy facilities are not worthy (including Jadwin) and any gloomy bus stop arena along I-95 would be no fun and likely poorly attended compared to what we saw this past weekend.

Then again, this is a TV show at its heart, right? So does it really matter where it is held as long as the lighting and internet connections are good? Charge premium prices to be part of the studio audience.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18429

Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-18 05:46 PM - Post#252546    
    In response to penn nation

Westchester County Center is 5000, Webster Bank Arena (Bridgeport) is 10000 and the XL Center in Hartford is 16000

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11263

Reg: 12-02-04
03-12-18 05:55 PM - Post#252552    
    In response to palestra38

I live 10 minutes away from the County Center--it's a drecky arena. Bridgeport is much, much nicer.

  • palestra38 Said:
Westchester County Center is 5000, Webster Bank Arena (Bridgeport) is 10000 and the XL Center in Hartford is 16000




 
digamma 
Junior
Posts: 270

Loc: Minneapolis
Reg: 11-27-11
03-12-18 06:00 PM - Post#252555    
    In response to penn nation

There's another solution here--we (Harvard fans) get our fan base off of our collective you know whats and buy tickets. I couldn't go this year but I must have gotten a half dozen calls up until the week before the tournament from the tournament ticket office. It doesn't have to be as big of a HCA as it was yesterday.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-12-18 08:30 PM - Post#252588    
    In response to digamma

Not fair to students. Again, Cornell and Harvard students had to travel 4 to 5 hours each way and find lodging. Penn was on break so students would have to get hotels. If that's what it takes to follow your classmates, and only Penn is allowed to host, there shouldn't be a tournament.

 
Mike Porter 
Postdoc
Posts: 2395
Mike Porter
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-18 09:00 PM - Post#252597    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

I LOVE the Palestra and frankly I don’t think you can find another gym in the northeast that can bring the same atmosphere. That said, I completely agree it isn’t “fair” (though a lot of things aren’t fair about Ivy sports) and understand the complaint and could be convinced why it shouldn’t always be at the Palestra.

That said, what is your solution? I see you’ve certainly voiced your concerns/complaints but I don’t recall seeing your alternate solutions in these last few threads? Might have missed it though so curious what you’re suggesting.


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-12-18 09:14 PM - Post#252604    
    In response to Mike Porter

From the start I've pushed Mohegan Sun. It provides everything - basketball arena, hotels, free parking, restaurants, entertainment. It even provides massive indoor conference hall space where participating schools (and/or the league) could organize hosted events, allowing for the socialization that is completely missing at the Palestra.


 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
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Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
03-12-18 10:22 PM - Post#252627    
    In response to penn nation

  • penn nation Said:
St. Johns seats 5600.





St. John's is also a long way from midtown Manhattan.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11263

Reg: 12-02-04
03-12-18 10:25 PM - Post#252630    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

Well, if you're looking for a 6,000 seat arena closer than St. Johns you're probably looking at the null set.

  • weinhauers_ghost Said:
  • penn nation Said:
St. Johns seats 5600.





St. John's is also a long way from midtown Manhattan.




 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 973

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
03-12-18 10:32 PM - Post#252631    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Sun would be a great venue, a real destination and geographically in the middle. Driveable for all and not far from Hartford airport.

I don’t think we fill that arena though.

HCA is a factor. Home win pct in the league was 70 pct. Penn won over 80 pct of its games at home vs. 69 on the road. Harvard won 37 pct of its games on the road, 83 pct at home. You adjust for higher SOS on the road, you adjust for the fact that unlike in the regular season the Palestra doesn’t have only Penn fans for the ILT, you can discount the win percentages some. But it ain’t 50 / 50.

There is no other arena in the league that should host this. It’s Palestra or go outside. And if fair is what you’re after, go outside.

LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3209

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-13-18 09:40 AM - Post#252669    
    In response to Bruno

  • Said:
Bruno And if fair is what you’re after, go outside.





True. But here's the thing: I don't think the people who make these decisions (the presidents, ADs and IL administrators) care in the slightest about fairness. None of the decisions they've made in all the years I've followed Ivy League sports suggests otherwise. So, if I were to be given 30 minutes to stand in front of this group of people and make an argument for moving the tournament to a neutral site, I would make sure the word 'fair' never crossed my lips. I would talk about the two things they clearly do care about: brand development and money.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3619

Age: 54
Reg: 07-07-09
03-13-18 10:21 AM - Post#252683    
    In response to Silver Maple

Word.

The Ivy League is based on tilting the playing field.


 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 973

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Amaker Still Loves the Palestra for the Tournament
03-13-18 11:34 AM - Post#252709    
    In response to Silver Maple

There is a clip somewhere on YouTube of Bob Ley and Dick Vitale arguing about this very topic - in 1986.

Brown at Syracuse in the NCAAs, playing at the Carrier Dome. Vitale tees off on it, because it's clearly not 'fair', and it tips the playing field in an event that's supposed to be about better basketball.

Ley basically argues that just because it isn't fair doesn't mean it's wrong. It's ok that it be about a great game atmosphere, that it generate revenue, etc.

My own sense is that 'fair' would be nice. That a great tournament atmosphere for all of the teams and the fans would be nicer. It probably serves more constituents better to have it at a great venue outside the league. But if it's going to happen in the league, there's only one place to play it.

But honestly I'm just happy to have a freaking tournament, so I'm ok if they play it at my high school gym.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3756

Reg: 11-22-04
03-13-18 11:38 AM - Post#252711    
    In response to Bruno

I'll have to view the clip but my initial reaction is "Syracuse is higher seed, of course it's played there". Only thing purely unfair is if Syracuse was higher seed while visiting Brown.

I'm "mad" about being a 16 seed and that Wichita's not close to anything. I don't particularly care that Kansas has a home court-ish advantage. Seems reasonable enough to me.

 
Bruno 
Masters Student
Posts: 973

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
03-13-18 12:40 PM - Post#252732    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Don’t go after the 1986 Bears.

They’re all I have.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
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