caughtinasnare
Senior
Posts: 362
Age: 35
Reg: 02-21-09
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03-15-18 10:53 PM - Post#253338
In response to 10Q
My thoughts from Wichita as I prepare to sleep before a 5AM flight:
1) Getting to and from Wichita sucks. It's just the worst. Air carriers really should have added more flights from hubs this weekend.
2) Everyone in Kansas is nice. More people welcomed me to Wichita as I walked around the city in my Penn garb today than I can even try to count.
3) Boy was the crowd shocked when we went up early. I was in the Penn section, but there were a lot of Kansas fans that infiltrated our midst. Had a few Penn students in front of me (the guys who were shown on TV with the signs) and Tommy McMahon and Brennan Votel behind me next to another current student. We were cheering a lot, high fiving, and it was great for awhile.
4) I really think that the inability to hit FTs had a compounding effect on other parts of Penn's game. It's a momentum killer to have the chance to put free points on the board and not do it. That really killed our chances of staging a full comeback after going down, I think, because we just couldn't get the momentum to keep a run going.
5) Kansas' defense was way better than I expected it to be. They were doing a great job of getting in the passing lanes and making it hard for us to move the ball well inside, as well as on the perimeter.
6) The best 3pt defense in the country wouldn't have any way of stopping Graham from hitting the shots he was taking from distance. That kid was throwing daggers.
7) Lightfoot got away with SO DAMN MANY moving screens. The biggest difference in this game was that we let them get around our screens and they didn't let us get around their screens.
8) I honestly wish Darnell took some more shots in this one, despite the well-documented results of him shooting more than 10 shots. The big difference he was making (and the difference Dev was making toward the end of the year, especially at Columbia) was to be able to weave through traffic in the lane and get to the bucket. Part of the problem today preventing that was the athleticism of a 1 seed, but forcing the issue couldn't have hurt. The good (and bittersweet) news: Darnell will never shoot more than 10 shots for Penn again, so does that mean we're gonna win forever?
9) Caleb Wood doesn't get enough credit for his rise this year. The kid can put down shots from 3 and often seemed like the only guy who could make one from the line. Both he and Darnell will be missed and hard to replace.
10) Given the perpetual problem of Quakers getting lower leg injuries, I have to question whether there is a common factor that can be resolved. Way too many walking wounded walking around it walking boots (and Darnell playing through it, apparently). It would seem there is something here to analyze. Also, no idea why the injured guys had to sit on the opposite side of the court from the bench... Would have been nice for them to experience being on the bench and involved in the conversation during the game.
Great season, Quakers. You did us all proud by your gutsy performance and grind to get this far. It's a shame you couldn't make history today, but you definitely put a shock into the 1 seed for awhile on what is basically their home turf. Use this experience and come back next year looking for more.
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Chip Bayers
Professor
Posts: 7001
Loc: New York
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 12:23 AM - Post#253344
In response to caughtinasnare
I was a row in front of ‘snare and to his right. The sign kids were to my left.
The biggest thing with the FTs is that the misses prevented us from holding it in the 4-6 point range for that little bit longer. Their crowd was so tense when we cut it to 4, and at least a couple of their players were getting very, very tight. Would have loved to get it inside 3:00 at that margin at the very least, just to see the tension build on their side.
At one point the Penn Band chanted “overseeded†during some Graham FTs, and there was a lot of uncomfortable laughter from the Kansas fans around us, because they knew it was true.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6415
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-16-18 06:51 AM - Post#253347
In response to 10Q
Not sure how mediocre it really was. Yes, you can point to a couple of things (free throws!) that we could have done better to stay in it longer or even win. But overall, this was a tremendous effort under difficult circumstances, and frankly was another great example of what this team is/was. We could have folded up any number of times during the first 30 minutes of that game (starting with when we started with 3 straight turnovers) and instead we just kept coming. Being a good basketball team isn’t about playing the perfect game. It’s about how you react when things don’t go your way. It isn’t AJ never missing a bunny — it’s whether you give up and/or get taken out of your game when he does. This team just kept on coming all year.
Darnell Foreman absolutely ends his career as one of my all-time favorite Quakers. There was a post about 2 star recruits like Betley. But with Betley, Donahue knew he had something— it’s just that nobody else knew. I don’t think anyone thought Darnell was going to be starting PG on a tournament team. He improved as much as anyone I can recall, and he did it working through a coaching change that didn’t seem to suit his style. For the kids on the bench thinking about how to get themselves into the rotation next year — ask Foreman what he did, and do it.
Foreman improved over 4 years, but Caleb Wood did it in a season. He cut out the turnovers almost entirely, bulked up, and got good enough on Defense. At times, he was the offense this year. Nobody hit bigger shots for us.
Finally, a word about Matt McDonald and Sam Jones. That culture of not giving up begins with them. They set a tone, and it was a joy to see Sam hit a 3 in the tournament.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23496
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 08:02 AM - Post#253350
In response to SomeGuy
Don't get me wrong. It wasn't a bad or embarrassing performance. For a 16 v. 1, it was quite respectable. But it obviously wasn't special, especially given that we were the popular pick to pull the upset. We kept it close late, which is nice. But in the end, it was just an ok performance. And I'm not complaining (much). Penn gave me one of my all time great moments as a fan this year, the Harvard game. I just hoped we would shock the world.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 08:07 AM - Post#253351
In response to SomeGuy
Yes, great point. This year was made possible by Donahue coming in, telling Tony Hicks to subvert his ego and play team ball or finish elsewhere and bringing in the two transfers who played his way. That resulted in a total change of culture, such that when Antonio Woods screwed up, rather than that being the end for him, he got it together and returned to play totally within the team concept.
And in part, that is why I am so optimistic going forward. The young guys are being reared in a completely different atmosphere than the poisonous one in which we lived for 8 years.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-16-18 08:33 AM - Post#253356
In response to 10Q
C'mon. You can't say that was a good performance?
I'll agree it wasn't special or historic but in terms of 16 vs. 1? In terms of relative RPIs? Playing at what may as well have been the home court of a top 10 team?
That was at least a good performance. Maybe not what we would hope or wish for but don't damn it with faint praise. That was a really good performance by this team. And I'm pretty sure most Kansas fans would agree.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23496
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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Kansas Game Link 03-16-18 08:55 AM - Post#253361
In response to 91Quake
I'm ok with saying it was somewhere between mediocre and good. Let's call it either high mediocre or almost good.
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-16-18 08:56 AM - Post#253362
In response to 10Q
I'll take it.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21276
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-16-18 10:13 AM - Post#253383
In response to 91Quake
Most 16s don’t trail by just 4 with around 11 minutes to play
SDs comments postgame were very instructive. Penn had a good game plan and executed it well. Kansas was taking the shots that Penn wanted it to take and we were taking good shots. He was very pleased with the team's effort.
This is not what you would expect in a 1-16 matchup.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23496
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 10:27 AM - Post#253387
In response to penn nation
No, but this was considered by some to be more of a 3-14 matchup. By that standard...
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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03-16-18 10:34 AM - Post#253391
In response to penn nation
They were not really a 1 seed without their big (not to mention their overall 9 rating in Ken Pom)and, as everyone on this board knows, we should not have been a 16. I saw this game more as a 3-14 game as the oddsmakers did.
We legitimately lost by 16. I prefer the way it happened where we actually were the better team early and stayed in striking distance for 75%-80% of the game, but it was also a game where we got outscored 65-39 for 25+ minute chunk of the game. Flip the order and it would have been viewed as a poor effort.
No complaints here. I will 'fess up that I thought we would finish 4th this year in the league. They way outperformed my expectations. Yes the league was down, but you still have to capitalize and they did. I enjoyed this year immensely, but yesterday was a meets expectations (maybe a plus given the length of time they were in the game), not a great effort.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3781
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-16-18 11:59 AM - Post#253398
In response to Okoro Dude
Even if they were over seeded (and they were), it's hard to look good vs. a team like Kansas.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4919
Reg: 02-04-06
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03-16-18 02:55 PM - Post#253439
In response to Silver Maple
My point earlier was that the Quakers looked good by virtue of playing a pretty "normal" game for them. It wasn't the very upper range of their performance, which would have been needed to pull the upset, but it showed that they could be competitive without having an out-of-body experience. When the favorite needs its superstar player to go crazy in order to win, that's a sign that the underdog is pushing them pretty hard.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1156
Reg: 07-28-07
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03-16-18 03:22 PM - Post#253444
In response to caughtinasnare
While I am not certain, the injured guys may not have been able to sit on the bench because of numbers. Don't think that you are allowed to suit up more than 15/16 players. I know that they sat on our bench AT HOME for most of the year - that may change in the Tournament. There are obviously some differences, e.g. halftime was 20 minutes rather than the usual 15. Perhaps this was another one.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23496
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 03:32 PM - Post#253446
In response to SRP
Their superstar sat on the bench resting for the 2nd round.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-16-18 03:55 PM - Post#253448
In response to 10Q
Graham IS their superstar - he's an All-American and was Big-12 POY.
Their big guy played, he just wasn't in good form and wasn't a factor because of that.
I'd agree the performance from our side fell short of good. Lousy FT shooting, a larger than normal number of unforced turnovers, and trouble dealing with their picks and drives to the hoop. Then again some of those things happen against top notch teams.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32877
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 04:12 PM - Post#253451
In response to TheLine
Yet, with all of that, it was a game within the last 10 minutes. Remember, we took about 6-7 bad shots late because we were behind that made the final score worse than the game was playing. And there were two absolutely brutal contradictory calls (surprised there has been little talk about it); first the 3 shot foul given to Kansas when the replay showed there was no shooting motion when the foul was given, and then a beautiful pass and score by Woods that was called a foul before the shot although the replay showed Woods WAS going up with it when he was fouled. That is a 6 point swing, more than the difference before the last Kansas run.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21276
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-16-18 04:25 PM - Post#253452
In response to palestra38
Others have mentioned this already, but the missed throws cannot be stressed enough. We were playing good basketball, getting the shots we wanted, AND getting to the line.
We took 14 FTs and each instance IIRC was us shooting 2 free throws. So we were getting to the hoop.
Amazingly the box score only says we only committed 11 turnovers yet it feels like we had more. Well, in reality, we committed 14 because on three separate occasions (in the second half when we could have stayed close for longer) we came away empty on 0 for 2s. And on most of the others we only went 1-2 (only Caleb got a 2 for 2).
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91Quake
PhD Student
Posts: 1126
Reg: 11-22-04
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03-16-18 04:45 PM - Post#253454
In response to palestra38
Well given the way we shoot Fts that would be a 5 point swing more likely but point taken.
The Graham 3 ft was like a classic soccer flop. Can't believe the refs bit on that one.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23496
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-16-18 05:02 PM - Post#253456
In response to palestra38
Those calls drove me nuts. I was screaming at the refs.
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