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Username Post: Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed        (Topic#21405)
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 787

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
03-22-18 03:05 PM - Post#254132    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Would anyone like to take a guess as to what the attendance would have been at the Palestra with a Cornell/Yale final in the men's and Harvard/Yale final for the women. Then consider if Penn was not in the tournament for the men or women. Robin and her merrymen would have to hire young people off the streets or set up cardboard spectators.

Will it be any different dependent on the mix of teams if the tournament is held in NYC or Boston. Probably, NYC location would have the broadest appeal but who knows if IvyMadness can sell out.

It was a bit of propaganda that the Il Tournamment was going to greatly enhance the "brand".

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-22-18 03:13 PM - Post#254133    
    In response to bradley

Interesting observation.

Could lead to a conclusion that the location needs to match the participants. Either a central/neutral location or higher seeds host Friday semifinal and maybe even Championship.

Harvard/Yale playoff proves that participants and location can be determined the previous weekend and still be well attended. As for championship, we don't know who will be playing until Saturday's games conclude and school allotment of tickets had to be purchased all over again (for 200 section) and/or reallocated for 100 section.

Women's tournament would have to held separately (Thursday - Saturday?)







 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed
03-22-18 03:24 PM - Post#254136    
    In response to Go Green

Remove Penn and you're likely to draw 3,000 at the Palestra for the final. Remove Princeton as well and you could be down to 2,500. I think the Harvard-Yale playoff was an anomaly due to the rivalry, the competitiveness of the two teams, and Yale's historical failure to get to the tournament. I had no trouble getting tix for the Harvard vs Princeton playoff at Yale (2,800 capacity).

Unless you allow Penn to play in the tournament on its home Court, you can hold it in a much smaller arena.



Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 03-22-18 03:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Go Green 
Senior
Posts: 399

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed
03-22-18 03:55 PM - Post#254140    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

  • HARVARDDADGRAD Said:
Remove Penn and you're likely to draw 3,000 at the Palestra for the final. Remove Princeton as well and you could be down to 2,500. I think the Harvard-Yale playoff was an anomaly due to the rivalry, the competitiveness of the two teams, and Yale's historical failure to get to the tournament. I had no trouble getting tix for the Harvard vs Princeton playoff at Yale (2,800 capacity).




Maybe you're right. But the reality is that the 2015 H-Y game did, in fact, draw just fine.

My own gut is that H-Y would draw comparably if they reached the tournament game in Ivy Madness. A Harvard v. Yale game seems to be more of a social event than any other matchup in the league.

And before I hear protests from the Ps, how well would a Penn-Princeton game draw in Boston?


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3436

Reg: 11-23-04
03-22-18 03:59 PM - Post#254141    
    In response to Go Green

Yes, I think it is "here to stay" but not "there to stay".

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18470

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed
03-22-18 04:00 PM - Post#254142    
    In response to Go Green

Better than a Harvard-Dartmouth game in Boston. But again, only alums would come.

Unless they give students incentives to attend and schedule it a week earlier before Break, there will be no students in any number at the Ivy tournament

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
03-22-18 04:54 PM - Post#254150    
    In response to palestra38

The Penn - Harvard final was well attended by Penn students returning from break to their campus. The Harvard - Yale tie-breaker seems to have been attended by students as well. I know Harvard students were in attendance at Yale for the Harvard-Princeton game.

 
Go Green 
Senior
Posts: 399

Age: 47
Reg: 04-22-10
Re: Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed
03-22-18 05:02 PM - Post#254151    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Better than a Harvard-Dartmouth game in Boston. But again, only alums would come.





And your basis for this assertion is...?

HARVARDGRADAD suggested that the novelty was the reason why Yale went down to Philly in 2015. Yet, Dartmouth wouldn't trek down to Boston?

Edited by Go Green on 03-22-18 05:03 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18470

Reg: 11-21-04
03-22-18 05:05 PM - Post#254152    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

There were a lot of Penn fans at the Yale-Harvard game, including everyone from my season ticket group

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 787

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
Re: Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed
03-22-18 05:19 PM - Post#254154    
    In response to palestra38

I do not believe that there would be a marked difference in attendance if the event was held in Boston or Philadelphia. NYC probably gets a slightly better draw but you are correct that current day Ivy League students just do not show up for these events and only, if their school is participating. As to adults, some alumni will show up and location is factor.

How does the IL get fans to attend IvyMadness? A couple of possibilities including a team, like possibly Harvard, be a nationally ranked team with one or two great players. Penn upsetting Kansas followed by a win against Seton Hall, a great talent joins the IL like Jaelin Llewellyn next year, etc. It is not going to happen unless there is a significant improvement in performance by teams but more importantly, a special team or player. Can one imagine the excitement of a Penn vs. UMBC upset win? Is it going to happen -- time will tell but IvyMadness is just a dance around the real issues.

I, like the vast vast majority of basketball fans in this country have little to no interest in IvyMadness, albeit for different reasons.

 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3436

Reg: 11-23-04
03-22-18 07:23 PM - Post#254166    
    In response to bradley

Keggies have usually enjoyed any reason to go to Boston.

 
penn nation 
Professor
Posts: 11270

Reg: 12-02-04
03-22-18 08:05 PM - Post#254167    
    In response to Old Bear

FWIW, no-one is at a friggin' NCAA Sweet Sixteen matchup in Atlanta between Loyola and Nevada.

 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1036
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
Re: Attendance for Abomination Finally Revealed
03-22-18 08:09 PM - Post#254168    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Yes, but it looked pretty full on TV and had great sound and atmosphere for the TV show. BTW, don't you think the fact that any of the fans of Yale, Harvard and Cornell could watch it on ESPN2 depressed the live attendance?




I haven't been able to find the exact ratings anywhere (any suggestions would be greatly appreciated), but I can tell you it didn't make the cut for this list, in which the lowest-rated college game got 0.35. Also, while individual years might fluctuate due to teams qualifying, weather, etc., if we don't see a positive correlation between TV ratings and attendance, this thing ain't working.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1036
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
03-22-18 08:11 PM - Post#254169    
    In response to Jeff2sf

  • Jeff2sf Said:

Maybe if the players attend your kids' bday party you'll forgive their insolence for wanting a tournament?



I guess they got the insolence from you. Mad, bro?
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1036
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
03-22-18 08:14 PM - Post#254170    
    In response to Go Green

  • Go Green Said:
  • TheLine Said:
.

My sense is that the tournament is here to stay.




Agreed.

The only "debate" is what changes (if any) to make to the format.



There have been many things over the years that were "here to stay" without any particularly good reason. I'd name some of them, but if I get too hyperbolic, Jeff will get kwanky-wanky again.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1036
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
03-22-18 08:33 PM - Post#254172    
    In response to rbg

  • rbg Said:
Interesting information on the men's attendance. While not close to a sellout, I would have thought that there were more than 5,500 for the Penn semifinal and final.



For the final, the lower bowl on the sideline across from the benches was at best about a third full. The Harvard student section was mostly empty. Only one of the corners was really full. There were quite a few empty seats in the section I was in, which is one of the best seats in the house.

While the ticketing scheme was better this year, it was still not well done; for instance, it's pretty obvious that there's not nearly as much demand for VIP packages as they think there is.

  • Quote:
It does not appear that any attendance figures have been released for the 3 women's games.



Given that the Princeton fans showed up more forcefully than last year, I'd guess the women's attendance was a bit higher this year, probably in the 800-1,000 range, which would be a very good attendance for a regular season Penn game.

  • Quote:
Jill Glessner also mentioned having it in the Boston Area. I cannot remember if she mentioned Matthews Arena at Northeastern, but it is a 6,000 seat capacity with a bit of history.



To be precise, it's to Boston hockey what the Palestra is to Philly basketball; it's the oldest indoor rink in the world, and all four of the Beanpot programs got started there. Judging from the pics, the sightlines wouldn't be too bad for basketball.

David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
dperry 
PhD Student
Posts: 1036
dperry
Loc: Oreland, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
03-22-18 08:36 PM - Post#254173    
    In response to palestra38

  • palestra38 Said:
Tournament tickets were for both men's and women's---there were no separate tickets for the women. So the figures you see are for all games.



Actually, there were separate packages sold for the women's games this year (this was one of the reasons why the games were shifted around), although it is true that men's tickets were good for them as well, and I'm sure quite a few people went to both. I've had several Howard Gensler sightings lately, by the way, and Paul Chrystie was at the final, too.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!"


 
Stuart Suss 
Masters Student
Posts: 943

Loc: Chester County, Pennsylva...
Reg: 11-21-04
03-22-18 08:54 PM - Post#254175    
    In response to dperry

It is my understanding that the separate ticket package for the women's games was the result of the game times being switched around, not the cause of the switch.

In 2017, there was a single admission quadrupleheader. The women's games were sandwiched around the two men's games which tipped off at 1:30 and 4:00 pm. This year, at the request of ESPN, the men's games tipped off at 12:30 and 3:00 pm. The women did not want a game at 10:00 am. So we had the separate men's and women's sessions.


 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 787

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
03-22-18 08:56 PM - Post#254176    
    In response to penn nation

If Harvard or someone has a run like Loyola or Nevada this year, the carryover for the Il would be amazing regardless of IvyMadness. Very tough to do but Harvard may have a run left in them. Want to get some publicity or "branding", go win some games at the Big Dance.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 787

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
03-22-18 09:20 PM - Post#254177    
    In response to bradley

Incredibly gutsy win by Loyola -- remarkable. Difference for the very good mid major teams than the Ivy League is that simply play with greater tempo, extraordinary defensive effort and motors that simply do not quit. At some point and time, coaches in the IL may need to make some adjustments to the perimeter passing game and slower tempo.

After watching the game, I remain perplexed as to why IL supporters in a one bid league do not want to send their best team to fight the good fight at the Big Dance but it is what it is.

 
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