Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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03-26-18 02:38 PM - Post#254316
Any nominations for the grittiest players for Penn? To me, grit is the ability to take over a game with your mental strength. Contrary to what others have said on other threads, I believe it is real with some players and adds a lot to the team outcomes.
Here are a few of mine:
- Paul Chambers - Always my #1 pick. In my opinion, Penn's winning culture for the 1990's started with him.
- Michael Jordan - Tough as nails. He was as fierce a competitor for Penn as I've seen.
- Darnell Foreman - Need I say more?
- Zack Rosen - Unbelievable guts and ability to rise to the challenge.
- Andy Baratta - He gets my vote simply for his effort in a few games his senior season where I watched him limping around with a knee brace and busted his hump while in clear pain. Not an all-star, but he showed grit that belied his laid back exterior.
OK, there is a clear bias here towards smaller point guards. But I'm just calling it as I see it!
Honorable Mention
- Barry Pierce - This one was a tough call, because no one else has made working so hard look so smooth. Certainly one of the great grit players.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 02:43 PM - Post#254317
In response to Penndemonium
Does it work against you if you are also blessed with immense talent? I ask because Jerome Allen absolutely took over games with his mental strength.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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03-26-18 02:51 PM - Post#254319
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Loved Barry Pierce. Eddie Jones didn't feel the same way about Pierce.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 02:53 PM - Post#254320
In response to Penndemonium
That's a pretty good list. I would add Tony Price, who in addition to throwing the greatest punch in Quaker history (oxymoronic, yes), willed a Penn team with little depth to the Final Four. He thought he was as good as Magic Johnson, at least until he played him (and got taken out with cheap fouls). Matt White was all attitude, also.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-26-18 02:55 PM - Post#254322
In response to palestra38
Bruce Lefkowitz.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 02:59 PM - Post#254324
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
You totally beat me to the punch. I was in the middle of writing the same comment with virtually the same wording.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 03:08 PM - Post#254328
In response to penn nation
If grit= falling a lot, he's the all time winner. But he did take on bigger guys with greater skills all the time and held his own. I always wondered how good he would have been if he had a legitimate center on the team.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 03:09 PM - Post#254330
In response to palestra38
I was commenting on TPFKAs choice (Jerome).
Lefko for sure is on the All-Floor team, not so sure about All-Grit one.
Edited by penn nation on 03-26-18 03:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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03-26-18 03:11 PM - Post#254331
In response to penn nation
Anthony Arnolie
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-26-18 03:45 PM - Post#254339
In response to Charlie Fog
Scott Kegler (Just kidding)
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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03-26-18 04:16 PM - Post#254347
In response to 10Q
Kent Mulholland.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-26-18 04:36 PM - Post#254350
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Neil Bernstein.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 05:07 PM - Post#254351
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Does it work against you if you are also blessed with immense talent? I ask because Jerome Allen absolutely took over games with his mental strength.
Gritty != Lacking Talent. Many of the greats got where they did by combining the two. LeBron is an incredibly gritty player based on my definition on the other thread. He credits his work ethic to watching Kobe's routine during the Olympics. Remember that year Kobe decided he'd be the Olympic team's defensive stopper? That's grit.
Lefko is an example of a gritty player who had a lot more talent than he was ever given credit for. I used to play at Hutch back in the day. Sometimes when we were playing on the court reserved for the team they'd let us stay until they started their more formal practice. Lefko was scary enough physically that I'd quietly leave when he showed up.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32809
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 05:15 PM - Post#254352
In response to TheLine
The worst varsity player is 100X better than the average Gimbel player.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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All Grit Team
03-26-18 05:21 PM - Post#254353
In response to palestra38
I don't know. There were some guys on the team who I wasn't afraid of at all. They were better than me but not 100X better. Lefko was at least 100X better than me.
And I doubt they'd let me on the Gimbel floor. It was a poseur game over there and I don't think I was good enough for it. We had grit going on over at Hutch in those lunchtime 'no blood, no foul' games with the HUP hospital staff.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-26-18 07:12 PM - Post#254359
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Does it work against you if you are also blessed with immense talent? I ask because Jerome Allen absolutely took over games with his mental strength.
In my book, if you give a huge amount of the credit to his mental makeup, then it qualifies.
I liked Jerome's mental toughness, but he didn't make my all-grit team.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8236
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-26-18 11:58 PM - Post#254368
In response to Penndemonium
Rob Belcore.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2138
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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03-27-18 12:49 AM - Post#254369
In response to Streamers
Grandieri should qualify.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1899
Reg: 11-29-04
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Re: All Grit Team
03-27-18 12:23 PM - Post#254393
In response to TheLine
I don't know. There were some guys on the team who I wasn't afraid of at all. They were better than me but not 100X better. Lefko was at least 100X better than me.
And I doubt they'd let me on the Gimbel floor. It was a poseur game over there and I don't think I was good enough for it. We had grit going on over at Hutch in those lunchtime 'no blood, no foul' games with the HUP hospital staff.
I played against a couple of team members in various situations - Ken Graf, Jerry Simon, Dane Watts, and Scott Kegler. It struck me how some of them didn't look so big or athletic at the Palestra, but how dominant they each were in pickup games. They ran circles around everyone and could shoot from anywhere they wanted, even against above average players. Even the JV players were simply awesome against the average Joes.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-27-18 12:53 PM - Post#254394
In response to Penndemonium
How about an all-grits team, players from below the Mason Dixon.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-27-18 12:57 PM - Post#254395
In response to 10Q
Karl Racine. DC is below the Mason Dixon line, correct? And Karl's still showing quite a bit of grit in his current job.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-27-18 02:01 PM - Post#254397
In response to Silver Maple
Racine and Arnolie were both from New Orleans if I'm not mistaken.
Racine was no taller than me and I'm not tall. Arnolie was a little shorter. Both were ballers. Will never forget the game Arnolie took down Nova.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3775
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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03-27-18 02:04 PM - Post#254398
In response to TheLine
10-10 from the line, with superhuman ball handling over the last few minutes. And then Rollie saying afterwards that he had no idea that Anthony was a good foul shooter. One of the greatest Penn Basketball moments ever.
According to the DCAG website, Karl's a lifelong resident of the District, which is my recollection as well. Arnolie was from NOLA.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-27-18 02:05 PM - Post#254399
In response to 10Q
And Florida doesn't count, unless it's north of Orlando.
How about an all-grits team, players from below the Mason Dixon.
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23368
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-27-18 02:08 PM - Post#254400
In response to penn nation
That would exclude AJ Castro.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-27-18 02:13 PM - Post#254402
In response to 10Q
Nigeria is south of the MD line so Ugonna is in.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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03-27-18 02:23 PM - Post#254403
In response to penn nation
Memphis native Ben Spiva DEFINITELY on the all-grits team.
All-ribs team, too.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-27-18 02:41 PM - Post#254404
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
While we're all at this, the all kishkes team:
Lefko
Rosen
Wohl
Bilsky
Neuman
(big drop)
Simon
Klatsky
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Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 586
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
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03-27-18 03:11 PM - Post#254408
In response to Silver Maple
Ice water ran through his veins.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-27-18 03:28 PM - Post#254409
In response to Silver Maple
10-10 from the line, with superhuman ball handling over the last few minutes. And then Rollie saying afterwards that he had no idea that Anthony was a good foul shooter.
Rollie was proof positive that you can be at the top of your profession and otherwise still be an id!ot.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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03-28-18 05:46 PM - Post#254495
In response to Silver Maple
The grit, continued.
Racine's grit--2018
Karl Racine. DC is below the Mason Dixon line, correct? And Karl's still showing quite a bit of grit in his current job.
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