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Username Post: Carter        (Topic#21488)
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-16-18 12:36 PM - Post#255360    

"Duke has lost its entire starting group after freshman big man Wendell Carter Jr. announced he will declare for the NBA draft and forgo his final three years of college eligibility."

Harvard is so lucky it didn't get totally involved with this kid and his family, who pretended, for whatever reason, to have an interest in "education" for a while. Steer clear of potential "one and runners"!

 
T.P.F.K.A.D.W. 
Masters Student
Posts: 819

Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
Re: Carter
04-16-18 03:30 PM - Post#255394    
    In response to Local Observer

Did Amaker ever back off recruiting Carter before he committed to Duke?

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-16-18 04:19 PM - Post#255398    
    In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.

Of course BAMBA was the guy MrJames REALLY thought was sincere in applying to Harvard. "Bamba made his official college debut on November 10, 2017 against Northwestern State, recording 15 points and 8 rebounds in a blowout win that night. Eight days later, he recorded 13 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 blocks in a blowout win against Lipscomb. On December 30, Bamba recorded a season-high 22 points, 15 rebounds, and 8 blocks in a loss to Kansas. On New Year's Day 2018, Bamba would record a then-season-high 16 rebounds with 10 points in a 74–70 overtime win over Iowa State. He would record a new career-high in points scored with 25 points scored with 15 rebounds in a 85–72 win over Ole Miss on January 27, 2018, five days after recording his previous high of 24 points in a win over Iowa State. On February 17, Bamba would record a new career-high of 18 rebounds with 10 points scored in a 77–66 win over #23 ranked Oklahoma, five days after tying his previous career-high of 16 rebounds with 16 points in a close 74–73 double overtime loss to Baylor. At the end of the regular season for Texas, Bamba was named a member of the Big 12's All-Newcomer Team and All-Defensive Team, as well as be named a member of the All-Big 12 Second Team.

Following Texas's loss in the 2018 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament to Nevada, Bamba announced his intention to forgo his final three seasons of collegiate eligibility and declare for the 2018 NBA draft, where he is expected to be a lottery selection."

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
Re: Carter
04-16-18 04:39 PM - Post#255402    
    In response to Local Observer

"Carter's name also popped up in a Yahoo! investigative report in February. According to the report, Carter's mother's name was listed among a list of players and family members on an expense report from Christian Dawkins, an agent who was arrested in the FBI's investigation into corruption into college basketball.


His mother told Krzyzewski that she and her husband met for lunch with Dawkins — which is not against the NCAA's amateurism rules — but did not eat."

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/du k...

 
iabhoops88 
Sophomore
Posts: 102

Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 01-26-13
Carter
04-16-18 04:41 PM - Post#255403    
    In response to Local Observer

I am not sure I understand the posts about Carter and Bamba entering the draft. What was avoided? I think it was pretty well known that both were and are "1 and done" guys. That his mother had lunch with Dawkins? That for some reason Bamba's estranged half-brother wanted him declared ineligible?


Edited by iabhoops88 on 04-16-18 04:45 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
Re: Carter
04-16-18 04:53 PM - Post#255404    
    In response to iabhoops88

What's to understand is that Harvard thankfully avoided getting involved with a couple of "one and dunners" who asserted an interest in the school, for whatever reason.

Lets hope they continue to sniff these characters out and avoid them in the future.

 
jadwinjungle 
Freshman
Posts: 40

Age: 20
Reg: 10-02-17
04-16-18 04:59 PM - Post#255405    
    In response to Local Observer

Being a one and done and being interested in receiving a world class education are not mutually exclusive. Not sure why you think Bamba and Carter "pretended" to be interested in an education. Isn't it possible both were legitimately interested in the opportunities they could get by attending Harvard, but ultimately made the decision that playing high major basketball and being a top 10 pick before they are 20 years old is worth more to them? That doesn't mean they aren't interested in education, or were pretending to be interested in Harvard, they just came to a different conclusion based on the options they had.

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-16-18 08:00 PM - Post#255418    
    In response to jadwinjungle

For people with a sincere (according to you) interest in education, neither one of them managed to attend many classes.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3757

Reg: 11-22-04
04-16-18 08:28 PM - Post#255419    
    In response to Local Observer

local observer is a pretentious jerk (this is for sure) who may be racist (this is more up for debate).



 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-17-18 11:05 AM - Post#255431    
    In response to Jeff2sf

Far be it from me to challenge the moral authority of someone with 3744 posts (!) but why, exactly, does it make one a "pretentious jerk" to suggest that Ivy League sports teams should steer clear of athletes who do not intend attend classes, and only "park" in college for a fraction of a year until turning pro? What is the point?

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18449

Reg: 11-21-04
04-17-18 11:17 AM - Post#255433    
    In response to Local Observer

Far be it for me to defend Jeff, who as usual, has made ridiculous personal accusations against you that are by no means warranted, BUT, the one-and-done athletes are not doing that out of voluntary choice but rather, because that is the system worked out between the NCAA and NBA as a prerequisite to being drafted. Previously, high school players could go straight in, and for some reason this was not deemed acceptable. But the assumption that someone doing what the NBA and NCAA has made a necessary step to being drafted is anti-intellectual is also unwarranted. Just about everyone would postpone college for a chance to make millions. You can always go to Harvard later....unless Harvard would only accept these guys if they played basketball. And if that is the case, it's not the athletes who should be criticized, it is Harvard.

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
04-17-18 11:44 AM - Post#255442    
    In response to Local Observer

It is a dangerous assumption to presume that all early entry candidates who leave after their freshman year have the same educational motivation or desire to learn.

One of the first things that Jaylen Brown said after leaving Cal after his freshman season and being drafted by the Celtics was that he was excited about being so close to Harvard and MIT and the prospect of taking classes there.

The stereotypes you espouse are likely stereotypes for a reason - namely that they may very well apply in a vast number of cases... that’s usually how stereotypes get started. But applying them in all cases is lazy and can potentially call into question motivations for doing so, as Jeff delineated.

Harvard has a long lineage of students leaving early for a variety of careers across the arts, computer science and sports. Many of them go on to represent Harvard on huge stages. I think we should all be careful about testifying to the motivations of any potential Harvard/Ivy student without knowing them directly.

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-17-18 11:48 AM - Post#255445    
    In response to palestra38

It is not the quandary of would-be pros forced to fiddle for a year at college against their will that I'm concerned about - that is the result of questionable NBA policy. What I am concerned about is Ivy schools (without intending to give policy advice to Penn (horrors!) but only to my own alma mater) distorting their own athletic programs by "hiring" these displaced pros. Lets recruit the best athletes possible who can meet the academic standards, but avoid those who any genius can tell have no intention of staying more than a few months. They shouldn't be taking up slots to which hundreds of sincere, worthy, applicants aspire.

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
04-17-18 11:54 AM - Post#255446    
    In response to mrjames

Many examples of 'one and done' players going back to get their degree during off season's. It has become much more of a norm now and that's why Ivy League schools have started to be part of the conversation. If you are going to get a degree after you are done playing professionally, why not get an Ivy League degree? I know Coach K at Duke works hard to have his "OaD" players come back and graduate.

Here is an article about Duke in particular:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/ar t...

"Coleman said the “half and done” problem hasn’t surfaced at Duke, as all Krzyzewski’s one-and-done players have completed their freshman year in good academic standing.

“That’s the thing that differentiates us from some of the other universities where their one-and-dones put in the fall semester so they’re eligible to play in the spring and many of them don’t complete the year,” he said an interview with The Herald-Sun."

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-17-18 12:05 PM - Post#255450    
    In response to PennFan10

<"Coleman said the “half and done” problem hasn’t surfaced at Duke, as all Krzyzewski’s one-and-done players have completed their freshman year in good academic standing.

“That’s the thing that differentiates us from some of the other universities where their one-and-dones put in the fall semester so they’re eligible to play in the spring and many of them don’t complete the year,” he said an interview with The Herald-Sun." >

How noble of Coach K! His position is this makes him better than Texas, etc? How many of his 16 (at last count) "one and dunners" have "come back to graduate"?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
04-17-18 12:29 PM - Post#255457    
    In response to PennFan10

I think it's a matter of time before an IL team gets a "OaD" player.

Zuckerberg was 2 and done no? Came back 12 years later....

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1748

Reg: 02-15-15
04-17-18 12:30 PM - Post#255458    
    In response to Local Observer

  • Local Observer Said:
<"Coleman said the “half and done” problem hasn’t surfaced at Duke, as all Krzyzewski’s one-and-done players have completed their freshman year in good academic standing.

“That’s the thing that differentiates us from some of the other universities where their one-and-dones put in the fall semester so they’re eligible to play in the spring and many of them don’t complete the year,” he said an interview with The Herald-Sun." >

How noble of Coach K! His position is this makes him better than Texas, etc? How many of his 16 (at last count) "one and dunners" have "come back to graduate"?



How many didn't, or aren't in the process of doing so?



 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
04-17-18 01:41 PM - Post#255461    
    In response to PennFan10

It sounds to me like a few faculty members - embarrassed by Duke's reputation as a "one and done" haven - are hoping to start a program to draw some of them back. It doesn't appear that they have been successful to date.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/ar t...

I hope the Ivies can avoid being drawn into this ill-smelling swamp.

 
Charlie Fog 
Masters Student
Posts: 436

Age: 49
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
Re: Carter
04-23-18 02:09 PM - Post#255668    
    In response to Local Observer

Did Harvard back off recruiting these one and done'rs or did they back off of Harvard?

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Carter
04-23-18 04:23 PM - Post#255675    
    In response to Charlie Fog

Harvard pursued both to the end. Came very close on both.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3512

Reg: 02-04-06
04-23-18 05:19 PM - Post#255678    
    In response to mrjames

One point that seems to be invalid to me is the analogy between one-and-dones and the likes of Gates or Zuckerberg. The latter did not plan to quit early but stumbled upon opportunities that seemed too good to pass up, and in the case of Zuckerberg discovered it as an integral part of being a student at Harvard. That's very different from accepting a student whose plan is to leave during or after completing a single year of college, with an option to come back and complete years later.

If you told the admissions office that you were planning to drop out after a year to start a company, I don't think you'd sniff an acceptance--it simply isn't a good allocation of a scarce resource (a slot in the class).

 
mrjames 
Professor
Posts: 5236

Loc: Montclair, NJ
Reg: 11-21-04
04-23-18 05:36 PM - Post#255679    
    In response to SRP

Actually, Mark might be pretty on target. He had some job offers from big tech companies for big numbers coming out of high school based on his file sharing app he built but opted to go to Harvard instead. At any moment, he could have dropped out of school and gotten a huge paycheck like a one-and-done. When school finally got in the way of a big idea he wanted to pursue, he left. He was well known in the industry, much like a Top 25 recruit would be.

I can't imagine as the valedictorian of Exeter who profiled as the next Bill Gates coming out of high school would have ever been passed up on by Harvard. I also think the premise is wrong: If you tell Harvard you plan to suspend your education after a year to start a company, that's not gonna be viewed as a negative...

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3512

Reg: 02-04-06
04-23-18 06:22 PM - Post#255681    
    In response to mrjames

If you suspend for a year before coming, sure. People delay acceptance for all sorts of reasons. That's very different from planning to drop out after one year, where the prospect of completing the degree is far less.

I suppose the admissions people could just admit more students to compensate for the wasted slot if they had high confidence that the applicant was really going to bail after a year.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1104

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
04-23-18 09:18 PM - Post#255694    
    In response to SRP

Great! Let’s add another floor to a Yard Dorm for applicants so talented that they unlikely to make it to Housing Day.

 
Charlie Fog 
Masters Student
Posts: 436

Age: 49
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
Re: Carter
04-24-18 07:30 AM - Post#255708    
    In response to Charlie Fog

That was my recollection.

 
Local Observer 
Junior
Posts: 222
Local Observer
Reg: 03-30-14
Carter
04-25-18 03:41 PM - Post#255873    
    In response to mrjames

(APRIL 25 PRESS RELEASE)
"A special National Collegiate Athletic Association panel on college basketball today called for high school players to be eligible for the professional draft -- nixing the so-called one-and-done phenomenon. This, along with harsher punishments for programs that violate the rules, was among the commission’s sweeping suggestions, an attempt to mitigate corrosive influences on the sport.
Many of the reforms put forth by the Commission on College Basketball, formed in the wake of an alleged kickback scheme, require action and buy-in by the National Basketball Association and other entities. Specifically, the NBA would need to scrap its requirement that players be one year out of high school before entering the league. This would end the widely criticized one-and-done phenomenon, in which athletes play for a single season before turning professional."

Edited by Local Observer on 04-25-18 03:42 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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