Untitled Document
Brown Columbia Cornell Dartmouth Harvard Penn Princeton Yale



 Page 1 of 3 ALL123
Username Post: Voy Board        (Topic#21496)
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3451

Reg: 11-23-04
04-20-18 07:32 PM - Post#255618    

Spectator is reporting that first-year forwards Jaron Faulds and Myles Hanson have left the team.

?

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2060

Reg: 03-02-08
04-20-18 08:15 PM - Post#255620    
    In response to Old Bear

We have a serious problem. What is going on?


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1633

Reg: 10-09-09
04-20-18 08:52 PM - Post#255621    
    In response to Chet Forte

I wondet whether they left when the transfer in of Smoyer, anothet big man, was announced?

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2060

Reg: 03-02-08
04-21-18 04:50 PM - Post#255632    
    In response to cc66

There is a very long string of tweets from one Coach Faulds today.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3451

Reg: 11-23-04
04-22-18 04:00 PM - Post#255645    
    In response to Chet Forte

What did he say?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1855

Reg: 02-15-15
04-23-18 12:06 AM - Post#255656    
    In response to Old Bear

It was indeed a long string of tweets. Reading between the lines and summarizing....Faulds is leaving because the kid doesn't like the coach's style and thinks the coach demeans and yells at the players, isn't truthful, and runs the team with ego, among other things.



 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2060

Reg: 03-02-08
04-23-18 08:12 AM - Post#255657    
    In response to PennFan10

The tweet is apparently from the father; at least that is my assumption. So is the next coach going to welcome a player whose father is this vocal? While there will always be a home for a 6’10” front court player with talent, his father did not do his son any favors. Bu all of this begs the question: is the criticism valid or not?


 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
04-23-18 12:30 PM - Post#255667    
    In response to Chet Forte

Yeah, the father has posted a few things in the past that are very pointed, but they seem to target any and all coaches who don't appear to be serving the players well. The timing could be indicative that he is referring to CU, but (regardless) he does make good points no matter what coaching he is referring to.

I spoke with both Faulds and Hanson this year and they both seem to be great young men, as well as talented ball players. You add these two departures with Andrew P. quitting the team, several upperclassmen not playing well and appearing like they've lost their confidence, Hickman's siblings' overt dissatisfaction, alumni voicing their concerns, and you do have to wonder wth is going on.

Also, I spoke with Faulds' father after one of the games and he seemed very reasonable. What he said to me made alot of sense and it all had to do with building young men up, instilling confidence, holding people accountable, and very positive - all good stuff. He wasn't even badmouthing the coaches, just talking in general. Last weekend, I talked with a guy who said the father is well connected in the AAU and HS coaching scene and well respected. The message I got was that he was reasonably and passionately advocating for all players being subjected to that style of coaching - not just his son.

Losing two top recruits from, possibly, the best recruiting class in CU's history, plus Andrew, plus losing a bunch of games they shouldn't have lost = trouble in Morningside... and it doesn't appear to be the players or the parents. I am not aware of everything going on, but none of those players appear to be living up to their potential (for whatever reason).


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1855

Reg: 02-15-15
04-23-18 02:24 PM - Post#255669    
    In response to CUBballFan

It doesn't matter if the criticism is valid or if the guy is credible on the AAU circuit, etc,

It is a bad thing for your father to go on twitter and post what he posted, clearly aimed at Engles. True or not, another coach/program will have pause before taking on a kid with a vocal parent.

Maybe I'm old school but those tweets are not a positive for Fauld's future recruitment.

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
04-23-18 03:16 PM - Post#255671    
    In response to PennFan10

I am old school, too, and am more concerned with why Faulds, Hanson, and Panayiotou all left within 9 months and why CU is underperforming than how it all unfolded. I’m sure the boys will all be just fine, including Faulds. I just hope we are, too.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2060

Reg: 03-02-08
04-23-18 06:56 PM - Post#255682    
    In response to CUBballFan

Peter Pilling is a very smart guy. I have confidence in his ability to build this program. Jim Engles is our coach next season, so whatever went wrong let’s hope he straightens it out. But I do not think that the elder Faulds did his son any favor by going public with a serious of intemperate tweets directed at the coach. That crossed a line that IMHO should not have been crossed.


 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
Voy Board
04-23-18 07:17 PM - Post#255684    
    In response to Chet Forte

I totally agree. Peter is a very smart guy, but I don’t remember seeing Faulds’ Dad ever naming Engles, CU, or any of the coaches in any of his (negative) coaching comments and all I see now is good messages. I thought he made it clear what he thought good coaching vs. bad coaching was - just his opinion. Could’ve been way worse if he wanted to actually target them.

Anyway, my main concern is no longer Faulds, Hanson, or Panatouyio (I wish them well and am sorry they left), but rather what caused them all to leave and why our team finished 8-19. Something is obviously wrong and, IMO, if Engles did cross some of those lines, that is concerning. If he didn’t, I’m sure things will improve quickly. If he has, and more people leave, we need to be less concerned with who said what or how they said it and more concerned with who did/didn’t do what and where the real problem lies. Just my opinion, but I am still concerned that something doesn’t seem right.

Edited by CUBballFan on 04-23-18 07:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
Re: Voy Board
04-23-18 08:11 PM - Post#255687    
    In response to CUBballFan

Just received a screenshot of this post on young Faulds’ FB page - written by the Hanson parents. Two different families alluding to culture issues.

“By now many of you have read or heard that Myles has asked for his release from the Columbia basketball program and is seeking to transfer..... Myles wrestled all year and Brian and I spent many hours listening and talking it through with him, not taking any decisions lightly..... but I keep coming back to and leaning on truth. The truths are that this program did not embrace the values and principles that he has sought to embrace and emulate in his life. That the team, nor leadership, were in unison and that is essential to teamwork, respect, and communication. That Columbia is a phenomenal school/education, but he was very successful there and he can move on and get a great education somewhere else too. That Myles' freshman teammates are brothers/friendships that will last a lifetime and are not bound by the walls and confines of Columbia. That Myles was more brave than I could ever have imagined being at 19 to stand for what he believes in and resonates with him.

Myles and his roommate, Jaron, chose to leave together and we are praying they both find the right ‘home’."

 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1405

Reg: 11-21-04
04-23-18 09:55 PM - Post#255696    
    In response to CUBballFan

Does it occur to you , CUBballFan, that publicly airing a witch's brew of innuendo, speculation and just nonsense is harmful to the program that you profess to support?

Basic facts: in today's game, transfers are common and a fact of life. The other team I follow, Michigan, has had 3 outgoing transfers in the last 3 years and two incoming. The usual reasons are, belief that a player can get more playing time in a different program; a coach telling a player that the program will not offer him a 5th year (two of Michigan's outgoing transfers were of this type, one transferred to Purdue and another to Ohio St.). No one got hysterical. It's part of the game today.

Another basic fact: coaches are given 3-5 years to show what they can do. The Ivies tend to 5, high majors sometimes cut ties after 3, but rarely. I've once explained why BB coaches are given that length of time. If you need a refresher, I'll provide same.

If a couple of shots had gone in or if a couple of players' on-court decisions had been different, we'd be having a different conversation. We were badly hurt by the injuries our team had because we were thin, talent-wise. When things don't work out as well as hoped for, some people point fingers and whine, others buckle down and work hard to get better.

Claiming, as you did, that no one improved is just nonsense. Adlesh improved greatly and Smith improved significantly.

There's nothing wrong with choosing to get a divorce--things just didn't work out for whatever reason. I wish both players well. And if someone has a concrete, specific complaint about something that is significant, that's what the AD is there for. But leaving with vague complaints about culture or then, as fans, trying to expand on such vagueness with baseless rumination, is, to put it diplomatically, unwise.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1568

Reg: 02-14-06
04-23-18 11:11 PM - Post#255700    
    In response to Dr. V

Some more facts would certainly be helpful

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
Voy Board
04-24-18 02:32 AM - Post#255707    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

A witches brew of innuendo, speculation, and nonsense? Um, okay, Dr. V. Not sure whether your lab is in Hogwarts or Columbia, but the analysis of my comments re: the program i have supported for years, not just professed to support, is interesting.

I haven’t seen anyone get “hysterical” about the transferring of those three players or the culture issues; but, like many others, I am very concerned with recent developments. They are starting to confirm some of my own suspicions based on what I have seen and experienced from the stands, alumni events, and basketball functions. I also have a child (who currently attends CU and who knows some of the upperclassmen), as well as a friend who is close to the situation. All of these first-hand accounts would qualify as “basic facts”.

Thank you for offering me a refresher, but I am well-versed in Lions basketball and not impressed with what I’ve seen these past two years. I am also well aware of the transfer epidemic that many universities and 700+ athletes/year are dealing with and many of those are because of playing time, 5th year options, changing of coaching staff, etc. But, transfers that result from some of the issues we are facing are not to be simply swept under the rug. If they are true, we should not be wasting another 1-3 years just because that’s the norm.

Also, I have had the pleasure of watching Q, Meisner, Castlin, and Hickman over the past few years and I think they are all playing less consistent, and with less confidence, than in previous years (same with Smith and Hunter). Coincidence?

I said we underperformed. I didn’t say no one got better (because Q and Tape did). From what I saw, the players did work their butts off to try to fix things. None of them pointed fingers and whined. All of your examples re: what could have led to us having a different conversation had to do with the players (making shots, making better decisions, etc). True, but coaching, chemistry, and culture should also play a huge role in the conversation - or we may very well be having the same conversation next March and the years to come.

I, too, respect Peter and, as the AD, I believe it is wise for him to really dig into what is going on. I am sure more facts will emerge one way or another and time will tell.

Edited by CUBballFan on 04-24-18 02:37 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1568

Reg: 02-14-06
04-24-18 08:46 AM - Post#255716    
    In response to CUBballFan

Gentlemen, you are making both making good points, but the clear winner of the debate is CuBballFan whose critique I agree with in its entirety. Dr. V tends to be an apologist for everyone connected with a losing program and is afraid that too much criticism of the coaches and players will make matters worse and scare potential recruits away. Yes, those are valid concerns, but I would submit that you must take risks like that to build a great program. Of course, Peter Pilling did just that with Columbia Football bringing in a great coach in Al Bagnoli who quickly turned everything around. One way or another, Pilling will make certain that happens again with Columbia Basketball.

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
Voy Board
04-24-18 11:57 AM - Post#255747    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Dr. V,

I read your post re: “Fans, coaches, and teams” and thought a lot of people made great points. I appreciate the fact that you are well-versed in the players’ stats, but I agree with what many of the others said about the “honeymoon coming to an end” (Columbia 37P6) because the stats many of us care about the most is our 10-18 record in conference play and 19-35 overall record over the past two seasons. And like Chet Forte said, we went 0-fer on the road this year.

Some common themes that were voiced then, which now seem to be a premonition to this past week:

Columbia Alum recognized long ago the appalling defense and slow/lack of player development.

cc66 also mentioned the long list of players not developing (from freshman to seniors), as well as Engles’ “manner and affect”, lack of emotional connection, and players not appearing to like him.

Sagatius mentioned the sub-par player development and lack of apparent big man coach (Agel?). He also made good points about us being as good or better than our opponents for much of the games, but not being able to sustain. Is that conditioning, confidence, coaching...?

Chet Forte also made excellent points about our players performing well early in the season (Villanova & PSU were both respectable and most of the players, including the freshman, looked good, but then what happened?). And his comments about the coach being “the engine, the inspiration, the leader” who “demonstrates passion, inspires players, and improves existing players” are good points and sound very much like the recent posts. The fact that Coach Al is “friendly to the fan base, passionate on the sidelines, has built a fantastic group of assistants, and has players who would run through a wall” is a far cry from what we are seeing on the hardwood.

All of these comments from the blog in early March now seem to be even more accurate given the recent developments. Plus, if you add in Ray Curren’s Twitter comment from 2/26/18: “I was banned by Engles after they lost to Stetson last year..... so beware.” and Dan Gelston’s Twitter comment from 11/10/17: “Columbia coach Jim Engles invites a couple of stunned student journalists to ride back with the team on the bus. ‘Just don’t talk to me’”..... we now have a wide variety of people who have all identified red flags with Engles. The 3 transfers in 9 months and recent parent comments just seem to be affirmations of the concerns we’ve all been expressing along the way.

Yes, Columbia 37P6, I am sure Peter Pilling will fix this eventually, one way or another, just like he did with Coach Al and our football program.

Sorry for the 1000 word posts, JadwinGeorge!


Edited by CUBballFan on 04-24-18 12:00 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1568

Reg: 02-14-06
04-24-18 03:50 PM - Post#255806    
    In response to CUBballFan

I believe it would be beneficial to all of us who deeply care about Columbia Basketball if you e-mailed a copy of your excellent post to Peter. Athletic Directors may not visit on line sports forums, but they certainly read their e-mail.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3784

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
04-25-18 09:54 AM - Post#255851    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

'm not going to wade into most of what's on this thread as I have no inside information. I do have a couple of observations.

I'm a stats/numbers guy for the most part. That said, the truly serious and successful people in advanced analytics have embraced the concept that team cohesiveness has a positive influence on a team even though we haven't been able to quantify it yet. I'm wondering about the cohesiveness of this current team.

I went to quite a number of games at Levien during the Smith years and those teams were cohesive, and especially so when Hartman was on the staff. I like sitting right behind the bench during the early non-conference games when Levien is mostly empty and it's possible to see and hear what's going on. I always left impressed with the way the players responded to Hartman's instruction. I was also impressed with the way the players stood up for each other.

There was a play this past year against Penn that Quakers03 and I have debated a few times in which Luke Meisner blocked and then stared down Caleb Wood after a throw-in. While we probably still agree to disagree on Meisner's role, one thing we do agree on - it was a turning point in the game. Penn's entire bench stood up for Wood while no one on Columbia did anything. Penn came out of that play motivated, scoring on the ensuing thwow-in and never looking back. It was instructive in that it demonstrated how much of a cohesive team Penn was and that Columbia - from Engels on down - wasn't.


 
 Page 1 of 3 ALL123
Icon Legend Permissions Topic Options
Report Post

Quote Post

Quick Reply

Print Topic

Email Topic

5557 Views




Copyright © 2004-2012 Basketball U. Terms of Use for our Site and Privacy Policy are applicable to you. All rights reserved.
Basketball U. and its subsidiaries are not affiliated in any way with any NCAA athletic conference or member institution.
FusionBB™ Version 2.1 | ©2003-2007 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.296 seconds.   Total Queries: 16   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT -0500) Eastern. Current time is 01:08 AM
Top