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Username Post: Next season        (Topic#21515)
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2085

Reg: 03-02-08
04-28-18 05:43 AM - Post#256064    

I wanted to change topics, since we should face the fact that Jim Engles is going to be the coach next season. One question that I have relates to Tai Bibbs. He had a terrific hs career and looked silky smooth to me. I remember that he was injured but never seemed to get any minutes even when healthy. He had been a legitimate three star D1 mid level recruit who actually switched to Columbia from a scholarship school. Does anybody have any prognosis on him? Also, is Killingsworth going to be playing this year? Same question for CJ Davis? As far as the rest of the roster, Smith if Well coached has a huge upside. Ditto Meisner. I still think that Tape has great athleticism for somebody his size, and Stefanini showed a lot of promise. So who have I forgotten, and what can we expect from this group?


 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1650

Reg: 10-09-09
Next season
04-28-18 10:50 AM - Post#256069    
    In response to Chet Forte

You're right that there are two different questions. One is the damage to the reputation of the program; the other is what we can expect from the team next season. On the first issue, we did take a hit; on the second, however, I am not sure that much has changed.

To address the first: Although Myles Hanson might have developed in someone who would have scored 10-12 pts a game, I think he has an inflated conception of his possible contributions. I also wonder what the statement about values means: is he describing a specific discomfort with the culture that Engels fostered, or is his conflict a broader matter of moving from Minnesota to Columbia? He is, after all, the second Minnesota recruit in the last 7-8 yrs to bail on the Columbia program.

Faulds would have developed into a significant contributor, though whether he would have become the star everyone thought is very much open to question. It must have certainly been a shock to him to be the most highly ranked IL recruit on ESPN, and then to find himself starting behind the unranked and unrated Patrick Tape. My guess still is that with Tape, the new 6'10 transfer, and the forwards coming in, both Faulds and Hanson counted the available minutes, hardened their antipathy to Engels, and decided it was time to exit.

But while the basketball program's reputation surely took a hit, I am not sure that what happened will have a significant effect on next season's record. Four of the spots are pretty firmly in place--Smith, Adlesh/Steffanini, Meisner, and Tape. Sure, it would have been nice to have some additional bodies, but barring a significant leap in their development, neither Hanson nor Faulds were going to start. So we are left with the status quo ante--how much do the above players improve in the off-season, and who starts in the other forward position. Hence despite all the noise and unpleasantness that hangs over the program, the prospects for next season remain fundamentally the same.





Edited by cc66 on 04-28-18 10:53 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Dr. V 
PhD Student
Posts: 1416

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: Next season
05-03-18 02:46 PM - Post#256353    
    In response to cc66

I wonder how much we contributed to the first. I don't know the answer to that question because I have no idea who, if anyone, reads these boards other than ourselves. Be that as it may, I kept my eyes and ears open at the banquet but didn't see or hear anything that confirmed any sense of discord either between or among the players and coaches. FWIW, I was surprised, to put it mildly, to hear that Hickman apparently thinks he can play professionally in the NBA and that Faulds supposedly thinks he can walk on at Michigan. Neither Faulds nor Hansen attended the banquet; everyone else was there.

Regarding next year, I subscribe to the school of thought that holds that, leaving aside schools who recruit one and done players, experience is key for purposes of rational speculation about the future. We bring back our top three scorers, top three rebounders and top three assist leaders. Among players who started at least 10 games, we return 44.6 points/game and 18.6 rebounds/game. We lose 8.7 points and 3.1 rebounds.

Obviously one or two injuries can skew any team's performance and, as importantly, who knows whether any/some/all of our players will improve or stay the same or get worse over the summer into the fall. If they are going to improve, guards/wings tend to improve most between the first and second years (although Adlesh showed very significant improvement between his second the third years--but maybe his injuries earlier had something to do with that). Bigs are more unpredictable. Two talented players, Stefanini and Bibbs, will be sophs. And the two incoming may be expected to contribute, so taking all of this together, it's likely that we'll be better next year.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1650

Reg: 10-09-09
05-03-18 03:46 PM - Post#256355    
    In response to Dr. V

Then Hickman joins both Hanson and Faulds as players who have inflated sense of their potential.

I agree with you about next year, with the one condition that much of the competition is going to be better. Nevertheless, I do think that this is the group that has stuck with Engels' instruction, and if it is going to take, this had better be the year it does so.

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
05-04-18 10:35 AM - Post#256416    
    In response to cc66

I respect much of what you say cc66, but I am not sure I understand the "inflated sense of potential" comment. The general consensus seems to be that all three of those players you mentioned have clearly shown tremendous potential.

Hickman showed us his potential last year (not sure what happened this year), but some level in Europe is a possibility if he gets back to that form. I don't see EuroLeague level pro ball in his future (I hope I'm wrong and wish him well), but maybe one of the smaller leagues like Italy's Lega, France's LNB, or Adriatic..... Shooting 29% from 3 for a season can't continue though and he must dramatically improve his defense.

Faulds' potential is obvious, too. Just look at what he did, as an 18-year-old (which I didn't realize until recently), against some great competition early in the season: Villanova, Penn State, Boston College - not to mention the game he had at Albany. He was projected to be one of the top newcomers of the year in the Ivy for a reason. Obviously, that didn't pan out but (with inconsistent opportunities and, if true, an unhealthy environment) it doesn't mean it was because he has an inflated sense of potential. ESPN rated him as a 4*, Verbal Commits a 3*, Rivals a 3*; he was one of the top 5-7 players in Michigan's talented 2017 class, and he played in the Nike EYBL, and, collectively, that says alot about his potential. Rankings aren't always accurate, but if all of these respected basketball "experts" are saying the same thing and think highly of him, then they must see potential. I don't think the other schools who actively recruited him (Michigan, MSU, Northwestern, Stanford, Iowa, Clemson, Creighton, 6 other Ivies, and many others) misjudged his potential and I wouldn't be surprised if he does land at one of them. Remember, Faulds committed right before the last three national tourneys and that is when most players get a flurry of offers. With everything he's ever posted or mentioned in his interviews, playing time doesn't seem to be his number 1 consideration, so I wouldn't be surprised if he did land at a UM, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Stanford, or one of several other schools that weren't able to offer in July of '16 because of his early commitment.

Hanson also showed us his potential in several games (Boston College and some league games). He had a handful of other mid-major options, just that we know of, who believe in his potential and would probably be happy to give him an opportunity in their program. It'll be interesting to see where he lands and how he develops. When playing free and confident, I love his the triple threat he presents to the defense - especially with his athleticism, height and ability to be a threat anywhere on the offensive end.

Besides the three players you mentioned, I'd like to also highlight what Tai Bibbs contributed earlier in the season (especially his good minutes against Nova and UConn). His performance during early season opportunities and his 27 other offers speak to his potential. His athleticism, hops, play making and finishing abilities, and other attributes make him a special player with tremendous potential. If we don't nurture those, some else will.

Stefanini showed moments of brilliance, too, (Albany, @ Penn, BC, and some league games). His potential was visible in his energy, hustle, and "craftiness" and, during spurts, he was our most impactful/best player on the court. His days at Bergen Catholic and his moments of game-changing ability here have positioned him to be an impactful player here next year - or elsewhere.

Last but not least, Smith has also shown us a tremendous amount of potential. If he can stay disciplined and under control (take good shots and not force things), and become more of a play maker for others first and scorer second - I believe he has the potential to be great.

So, in regards to any of these 5 young players having an inflated sense of potential, I respectfully disagree. I've heard nothing negative about these five (or our other players) along the lines of big egos. Actually, everything I've seen and heard about these five younger players (as well as Castlin, Tape, Hunter, Killingsworth, and all the freshman) is that they are all team players and do not have an inflated sense of self.

Contrary to an inflated sense of potential, each of these players has (publicly) displayed a very healthy self-confidence, self-esteem, and self-respect. They have also shown their true potential by balancing two full time jobs - the rigorous academics of CU and (at times) high-level basketball. As a result, I believe they have positioned themselves well and, if things don't improve from top down, other players (and new recruits) will also consider the plethora of options they have been presented with. The only individual in our program that has demonstrated an inflated sense of self over the past two years has been our HC and I am hoping that he has learned to check that at the front doors of Levien.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1650

Reg: 10-09-09
05-04-18 10:57 AM - Post#256421    
    In response to CUBballFan

Huh? That's a pretty significant misreading. I thought my statement about an inflated sense of potential clearly referred to Hickman's assertion that he could play in the NBA, to Hanson's belief that he would be quickly recruited by another mid-major program, and to Faulds' assumption that he could be an immediate walk-on at Michigan. I don't quite understand how you could see it referring to the remaining Columbia players, whom neither I nor anyone else has ever spoken of in that vein.

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
05-04-18 11:20 AM - Post#256423    
    In response to cc66

Okay, fair enough. Maybe I misread into it a bit too much. I hope you also saw the comments about me respecting alot of what you, Chet, and others have to say though.

I agree that the NBA seems a bit much for Hanson (if that's accurate).

I don't think its unrealistic that walking onto to Michigan is a stretch for Faulds at all. It certainly appears they were in the mix to offer him a scholarship given the fact that numerous social media posts showed him at Michigan football and basketball games with Beilein and the players during the 2015-2016 seasons.

Hanson's social media posts didn't show nearly as many possibilities, so I'll give you that one. Tough to tell.

My point in including the other players was simply to point out that many players on this team have significant potential and other opportunities.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1650

Reg: 10-09-09
05-04-18 11:39 AM - Post#256424    
    In response to CUBballFan

Of all the statements, Faulds is the only one within hailing distance of plausibility. If the other two players act on their stated assumptions, they are going to be very disappointed.

As to the other players, we agree. Let's just hope that the team deviates to the upside next season as much as last season it deviated to the down.

 
CUBballFan 
Freshman
Posts: 14

Loc: East Coast
Reg: 04-23-18
05-04-18 11:42 AM - Post#256425    
    In response to cc66

Agreed! Hoping for the best.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4680

Reg: 11-22-04
05-04-18 10:28 PM - Post#256450    
    In response to cc66

I would be surprised if Faulds ends up somewhere like Michigan. At least, I think it would be a pretty big mistake if he wants to play. While sometimes kids aren’t a stylistic fit, and sometimes coaches do get it wrong, i find it hard to 8magine that a player who had trouble seeing the floor at Columbia would ever see the floor at Michigan. Engles could have all of the problems that you are talking about, but most of the time a kid who can play at Michigan is going to stick out at Columbia clearly enough for it to be impossible to fail to play him. So my guess is that Faulds and Hanson both play at a school similar to Col7mbia’s level (or lower) rather than going higher. Ryan Pettinella sticks out as the exception to the rule here (trouble finding time at Penn, valuable piece at Virginia), but he also was just a support player at UVA. Assume these guys would like to be something more.

 
cc66 
PhD Student
Posts: 1650

Reg: 10-09-09
05-05-18 06:42 AM - Post#256451    
    In response to SomeGuy

True, but still more likely than Hanson moving up, and Hickman playing in the NBA...

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2085

Reg: 03-02-08
05-17-18 02:55 PM - Post#256968    
    In response to cc66

Barstool Columbia just tweeted that Tai Bibbs is the “sleeper” for next season. Because he was injured we really didn’t get to see what he can do. But he may have had a better hs career than any of his classmates and was set to go to a basketball school as I recall when the coach left and he decommitted. From the little that I saw he looked like a very fluid and smooth player.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1588

Reg: 02-14-06
05-17-18 09:12 PM - Post#256978    
    In response to Chet Forte

Barstool Columbia has become a "must read" for Columbia sports fans--smart, knowledgable and clever.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2085

Reg: 03-02-08
05-19-18 05:38 AM - Post#257030    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

Football list is out. Another fantastic job by Al and his staff. When will we see the MBB list?


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1588

Reg: 02-14-06
05-19-18 12:29 PM - Post#257039    
    In response to Chet Forte

Don't we know the MBB list already? Two outstanding recruits--Maka Ellis and Ike Nweke, as well as one tall MBB transfer--Joseph Smoyer-- who will presumably sit out the 2018-19 season.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2085

Reg: 03-02-08
05-20-18 06:40 AM - Post#257052    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

I was hoping for a late surprise addition. Hope springs eternal.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1588

Reg: 02-14-06
05-20-18 10:28 PM - Post#257067    
    In response to Chet Forte

Three-star football wide receiver recruit, Trajen Johnson, was one of the top basketball players in the State of Arkansas, and could conceivably play both sports at Columbia, but probably not his freshman year. Great athlete though.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2085

Reg: 03-02-08
05-24-18 05:18 AM - Post#257133    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

How about a shout out to our baseball team. Another IL championship achieved in grand fashion in a two game sweep of a very good Yale team in New Haven. Game one a four hit shutout. Game two a 2-1 win in the bottom of the 15th inning. Amazing pitching and error free defense. Brett Boretti is just a great, great coach.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1588

Reg: 02-14-06
05-24-18 09:16 AM - Post#257138    
    In response to Chet Forte

I would include the pitching coach in the shoutout as it must be presumed that he was responsible for the remarkable improvement in the pitching staff over the course of the season. Our pitchers were awful in the first half of the season and then something must have clicked because they started getting better and better right until this past weekend. Then, against Yale, Harrison Egly, Ty Wiest and Jordan Chriss were suddenly lights out. The only thing I saw was that all of them seemed to be releasing the ball with greater velocity than in the past.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2085

Reg: 03-02-08
05-24-18 02:39 PM - Post#257161    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

You would probably have to go back to George Starke to find a football/basketball combined varsity player.


 
Columbia 37P6 
PhD Student
Posts: 1588

Reg: 02-14-06
05-24-18 03:43 PM - Post#257168    
    In response to Chet Forte

George Starke was the "Head Hog" on the immortal offensive line of the Washington Redskins. He was indeed a great two-sport player at Columbia. Charles Barkley reminds me of George.

 
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