Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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05-25-18 12:30 PM - Post#257202
In response to weinhauers_ghost
For all the crap we take about Jadwin, it is a vastly better venue than the Cathedral, or whatever Yale calls their tight little gym. So, how is it that Jadwin wasn't the next choice? Hell, old Dillon Gym is better than the Cathedral. We could have both semis simultaneously. Or, the men at Jadwin and the women in Dillon for the semis and a double header for the finals at Jadwin. Any way you look at it, Princeton has the most ample and best facilities.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-25-18 01:43 PM - Post#257207
In response to Tiger69
Well the only benefit to Yale vs the Palestra is location, new haven being more central so that excludes Jadwin. Having it at the Palestra for two years probably hurt Princeton’s chances.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-25-18 06:58 PM - Post#257217
In response to PennFan10
As I have said consistently, there was no way that the Ivy Presidents were going to approve spending $100K or more to rent a facility. So it had to be a campus location, and if not Penn or Princeton, they all suck in terms of capacity. My question is whether it is possible to install a larger bleacher in the non-permanent seats at Yale. If not, we're talking about season ticket holders at Penn not all getting seats if Penn gets in. But I understand the decision in terms of the reality of the northern schools feeling jobbed over last year (read Harvard)
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section110
Masters Student
Posts: 847
Loc: south jersey
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-25-18 08:49 PM - Post#257222
In response to palestra38
If Harvard doesn't want to get "jobbed" then the world's richest university should build a decent (say 6500 seat) facility.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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05-26-18 10:14 AM - Post#257227
In response to weinhauers_ghost
Robin and her merry men are simply demonstrating that there was never a thought thru strategy behind IL Madness. You reap what you sow so none of this is all that surprising.
Although Harvard and Penn will probably be the favorites next year, it would be ironic is Yale has the home court advantage this year and advances to the Big Dance without the best record in the regular season -- it is indeed possible with their big man returning from injury. Without IL Madness, the Tigers would have gone to the Big Dance undefeated and Penn/Harvard would have played a dramatic game at a neutral court.
We remember all the so called arguments for the tournament -- increased regular season attendance, recruiting, league profile, etc etc. It is always good to match reality vs. promises.
The tournament may now rotate to each team's home court including Hanover, Ithaca, etc. but as you point out the geniuses behind IL Madness may head off to another direction. Time will tell.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-26-18 12:02 PM - Post#257229
In response to bradley
could be the existence of the Ivy tournament helped each team land some pretty solid recruits over the past 2 years. You can't dismiss that logic just because you can't see it. The quality of recruiting is higher across the league and the visibility of the league tournament is probably part of that.
I have had dozens of people tell me they watched the IL championship game on ESPN, in many different cities away from the east coast.
The visibility of the league has never been higher nationally.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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05-26-18 01:06 PM - Post#257230
In response to PennFan10
If you are interested, Robin and IL Madness is also willing to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.
If and when the league is "truly" a 2 bid league, there is a legitimate argument -- other than that fantasy land.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
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05-26-18 03:21 PM - Post#257231
In response to bradley
No big deal. A packed house in a central location may be better than a non-packed house at the southern end. The whole thing is too stupid to get worked up about.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-26-18 03:42 PM - Post#257232
In response to bradley
A legitimate argument about what? It would be hard to argue our league hasn't benefited from the visibility of the IL tournament nationally. That has nothing to do with a 2 bid league.
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Cvonvorys
Postdoc
Posts: 4471
Loc: Princeton, New Jersey
Reg: 10-11-06
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05-26-18 04:25 PM - Post#257233
In response to PennFan10
A legitimate argument about what? It would be hard to argue our league hasn't benefited from the visibility of the IL tournament nationally. That has nothing to do with a 2 bid league.
I'll believe that when I read an article about a kid who decided to attend an Ivy League School over (fill-in-the-blank school) because he watched said Ivy League School in the IL Tourney. Anyone have one to share?
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-27-18 10:30 AM - Post#257237
In response to Cvonvorys
Can you find an article from any school in the country where the kid says they made their decision based on a conference tournament? Recruits don't decide on schools just because of (fill-in-the-blank conference tournament).
I know when I was travelling on the west coast and Florida last month I had over a dozen people come up to me (while wearing Penn gear) and tell me they watched the ILT on ESPN.
And if you poll the players around the league whether the ILT is a plus/neutral/negative for them I would be shocked if it was less than 90% in favor.
I don't think it's a debate that the ILT raises the profile of the league across the country. And what High School Basketball kid doesn't want to do what Darnell Foreman did at the end of the half vs Harvard? Did ESPN show the final seconds of Yale beating Penn in New Haven? Nope. Did they show Cambridge going off at Princeton or Harvard losing @Columbia or the OT game at Cornell v Princeton on the last weekend? Nope. But they showed Darnell making that three and the highlights/final seconds of the ILT championship game over, and over, and over that day.
Any recruit who watched the ILT on ESPN (and I am quite sure many of them did) saw Towns, Lewis, Brodeur, Caleb, Betley, Juzang, etc and I'd be surprised if the level of play, athleticism, and competitiveness was a negative for their impression of Ivy League Basketball.
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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05-27-18 11:39 AM - Post#257238
In response to PennFan10
Can you find an article from any school in the country where the kid says they made their decision based on a conference tournament? Recruits don't decide on schools just because of (fill-in-the-blank conference tournament).
You just made our point that recruits do not make their decision based on a conference tournament and we agree.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4910
Reg: 02-04-06
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05-27-18 01:21 PM - Post#257239
In response to bradley
The tournament has reduced attention to the IL. ESPN used to cover pivotal regular season moments, as did others. Attention was focused on the top teams and their players. Now nobody cares.
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Tiger69
Postdoc
Posts: 2814
Reg: 11-23-04
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05-27-18 02:20 PM - Post#257241
In response to SRP
Recent IL success and near success in the NCAA Tounament has done much more for league stature than the stupid tourney. Prospects see a league on the rise, athletically, that has always had academic prestige. Now a top prospect can have both the top academics and exposure to elite levels of competition.
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GoBigGreenBasketball
Masters Student
Posts: 806
Age: 52
Reg: 05-19-16
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05-27-18 03:11 PM - Post#257243
In response to Tiger69
See the posts in the Graduate Transfer thread...we're not there just yet.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-27-18 03:39 PM - Post#257247
In response to bradley
Can you find an article from any school in the country where the kid says they made their decision based on a conference tournament? Recruits don't decide on schools just because of (fill-in-the-blank conference tournament).
You just made our point that recruits do not make their decision based on a conference tournament and we agree.
Great. Glad we cleared that up!
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-27-18 03:43 PM - Post#257248
In response to SRP
The tournament has reduced attention to the IL. ESPN used to cover pivotal regular season moments, as did others. Attention was focused on the top teams and their players. Now nobody cares.
So your argument is that if we eliminate the ILT (and therefore ESPNs coverage of it) there would be more attention on the league and ESPN would cover IL regular season more?
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bradley
PhD Student
Posts: 1842
Age: 74
Reg: 01-15-16
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05-27-18 05:39 PM - Post#257249
In response to GoBigGreenBasketball
The transfer list says a lot. I guess that the opportunity to go to the Big Dance by winning the IL Tournament did not sway minds as to players of the quality of Boudreaux and Gettings. Both of these guys plus other transfers are quality players.
The "real" opportunity to enhance the reputation of the league is not a gimmick like the IL Tournament but meaningful actions by all schools to improve the quality of the squads across the board.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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05-27-18 07:38 PM - Post#257250
In response to bradley
It’s not a gimmick. Anyone who says that isn’t interested in a discussion. I’m out
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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05-27-18 10:03 PM - Post#257251
In response to PennFan10
The IL is like the Patriot League. Outside of us, no one cares about the regular season or the league tournament. IL notoriety increased based on NCAA performance. Wins and near misses do something, otherwise, we’re just playing with ourselves (uh, literally and figuratively).
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