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Username Post: 2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?        (Topic#21570)
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3786

Reg: 11-22-04
2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 09:27 AM - Post#257349    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

your votes don't matter and don't count. but also, it's important that it's 1 vs everything else. Because yeah, I don't love the way the current tourney is set up, but if it's simply binary tourney v no tourney I and many others vote tourney.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18991

Reg: 11-21-04
Re: 2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 09:32 AM - Post#257350    
    In response to Jeff2sf

I like how you say "your votes don't count" and then not only vote for yourself but "many others".

I vote 1 but recognize that ain't happening. But a double men's and women's tournament with 4 teams each at a 2500 seat arena is ridiculous.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3786

Reg: 11-22-04
05-30-18 10:27 AM - Post#257354    
    In response to palestra38

it was done for effect. i think this whole "let's have a bunch of old white guys decide what happens with teenagers playing sports" is absurd, but if we're gonna vote, let's vote right.

no argument that the way they've done this is dumb/unfair to better seeds/seemingly inequitable to women.

i do really like limiting it to 4 teams though. i wouldn't have thought of that, but it's worked nicely.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18991

Reg: 11-21-04
05-30-18 10:29 AM - Post#257355    
    In response to Jeff2sf

As long as you understand you committed voter fraud. I agree with the rest of your post.

 
Jeff2sf 
Postdoc
Posts: 3786

Reg: 11-22-04
05-30-18 10:33 AM - Post#257358    
    In response to palestra38

i don't see how it counts as voter fraud. i have five different burner screen ids, that counts as 5 votes.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2273

Reg: 11-23-04
2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 12:40 PM - Post#257372    
    In response to Jeff2sf

So, I got 4 1s
0 2s
0 3s
0 4s, and
1 Jeff

Anyone else?🐅

Edited by Tiger69 on 05-30-18 12:41 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
weinhauers_ghost 
PhD Student
Posts: 1032

Age: 58
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
Re: 2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 01:06 PM - Post#257374    
    In response to Tiger69

I'd vote #1 also, with p38's caveat that we know the option is off the table.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3712

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
05-30-18 01:20 PM - Post#257378    
    In response to Jeff2sf

  • Jeff2sf Said:
i don't see how it counts as voter fraud. i have five different burner screen ids, that counts as 5 votes.


Well played


 
westphillywarrior 
Sophomore
Posts: 178

Age: 37
Reg: 01-08-11
Re: 2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 01:21 PM - Post#257380    
    In response to weinhauers_ghost

I vote #1.

But if there must be a tournament, what would be most important to me, is that any competitive game advantage, such as byes, home court, etc., would have been earned during the 14-game season.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3712

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
05-30-18 01:38 PM - Post#257384    
    In response to Tiger69

  • Tiger69 Said:
The record is stuck. Is there anything new to say? Or should we vote our preference?



I'm only responding because I respect you. But I don't get the point. It's quaint in a uniquely Ivy way to think that a vote of (mostly) old dudes on a board would hold any importance. Not because we shouldn't have a voice but because this whole debate is antiquated in a Make Ivy Basketball Great Again kind of way.
  • Tiger69 Said:
1). No tournament -- return to old format of "14 game Tournament" with possible playoff for bid in case of tie(s).


LOL. The time is past. No one but old dudes staring at a message board would go back to this.
  • Tiger69 Said:
2). 4 team playoff at Palestra


Not happening either. And I said this months ago - the league won't tolerate The Palestra as a permanent site if Penn returns to being a good team
  • Tiger69 Said:
3). 4 team playoff at regular season champ's court


Which champ, men's or women's? Oh, you want 2 tournaments? LOL. And how is this not an effective downgrade from option 2) if Harvard (or any other team) reels off 5 straight in season championships? Because then we're just trading The Palestra for Lavietes. Wonderfully bad idea that won't happen because the powers that be want a combined tourney anyway, making this option moot.
  • Tiger69 Said:
4). None of the above


Given the constraints we have, I'm OK with a rotating tournament provided every college gets a shot to host. I'm also OK with Yale getting next years - Jones is the dean of coaches, why not give it to him? This is mostly better than hosting it at some sterile "neutral" location though I have no idea how to shoehorn all the fans into the 2000 seat arenas that most of the Ivies call home.




 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3255

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
05-30-18 01:38 PM - Post#257385    
    In response to westphillywarrior

The whole tournament thing is just silly. So, if we're going to have one, in order to highlight the absurdity of the event, it shouldn't be a basketball tournament. So here's the poll: what game should determine who gets the NCAA bid?

a) Team handball
b) Ulama (including human sacrifice)
c) Trampoline dodgeball (televised on The Ocho)
d) Team ferret legging

 
sparman 
Masters Student
Posts: 884
sparman
Reg: 12-08-04
05-30-18 03:25 PM - Post#257396    
    In response to TheLine

In other words, IL approach is: Ready, Fire, Aim.

Or maybe: Fire, Aim, Ready.

 
rbg 
Masters Student
Posts: 875

Reg: 10-20-14
2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 04:15 PM - Post#257402    
    In response to sparman

This year, the Southern Professional Hockey League, the minor league conference that started the 3-on-3 overtime concept, did something new for its playoffs. For its 8 team opening round, it allowed the top seed to pick its opponent from seeds #5-8. Afterwards, seed #2 picked from the remaining group and then #3 made its choice.

Why not have the IL go all-in with this concept? If the league is going to continue having both tournaments at the same location, in each of the non-neutral conference arenas, with 4 participants each, why not have the #1 seeds choose which of the other seeds it wants to play.

If they want to make it a bit more interesting, the #1 seeds don't have to make its choices known until 48 hours before game time.

Edited by rbg on 05-30-18 04:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Tiger69 
Postdoc
Posts: 2273

Reg: 11-23-04
05-30-18 04:29 PM - Post#257403    
    In response to TheLine

All valid points. I was simply curious about individual sentiments. I suspect that we all realize that our opinions plus 3 bucks won't even get us a large coffee at Starbuck's.

 
TheLine 
Postdoc
Posts: 3712

Age: 55
Reg: 07-07-09
05-30-18 05:03 PM - Post#257407    
    In response to Tiger69

I suspect the overwhelming majority of Princeton, Harvard and (yes) Penn posters would like to do away with the tournament and see the conference winner advance. I'd also suspect the B-C-C-D posters are more open to a tournament. From my understanding the players, coaches and ADs are all for it.

Sparman, I get your point. However, holding the first tournament at The Palestra was an easy decision, and keeping it there for the 2nd one was a reasonable one given the success of the first tournament. Moving it to Yale is also reasonable. Yes, they are clearly making decisions from year to year but it's likely warranted.

I was all prepared to hate the tournament. I've liked the first two, not that my voice matters.


 
Old Bear 
Postdoc
Posts: 3449

Reg: 11-23-04
Re: 2019 Ivy Tournament at Yale?
05-30-18 05:21 PM - Post#257408    
    In response to Tiger69

I vote 20 3s.

 
SRP 
Postdoc
Posts: 3525

Reg: 02-04-06
05-30-18 07:50 PM - Post#257409    
    In response to Old Bear

If we're going to have this thing, I still like the N+1 format. If the regular-season champ goes undefeated, they get the automatic bid. If they have one loss then they play the second-place team in a one-game playoff at home. If they have two losses then there's a three-team playoff with the champ getting the bye. If the champ has three losses, we have a four-team playoff like the current one. And so on.

This format guarantees that everybody cares about how strong the regular-season leader is and all the fans of the opposing teams root for the leader to lose, which I find satisfying. And when the regular-season champ is a lot better, they get rewarded by not having as hard a path to the auto bid.

 
bradley 
Masters Student
Posts: 792

Age: 69
Reg: 01-15-16
05-31-18 11:26 AM - Post#257442    
    In response to TheLine

i am not sure if I understand the basis of how the site locations are based on reasonableness, logic or better yet, good judgement.

I agree with the premise that selecting the Palestra made reasonable sense year one based on the historic reputation of the Palestra and the expectation that the Quakers were not going to be very good if Robin and crew considered in not giving a team a home court advantage. In year 2, the selection of the Palestra did not make sense if fairness was a major consideration and selecting Yale this upcoming year is not reasonable if fairness was an important factor. Selecting Yale also is not reasoned if image as to site selection is a very important factor.

The selection of Yale makes sense as to reducing overall drive time if fans were coming from different locations - maybe -- or if Robin and crew do not believe that Yale will be very good this year -- unlikely.

A legitimate question would be what is the criteria being used for site selection and has it changed. It is hard to decide on reasonable if the criteria is not known.

I think getting out of the Palestra was a function of Penn's performance of the last two years and let's throw a "bone" to teams north of NYC. Another possibility is that Robin throws names in a hat and closes her eyes -- reasonable???



 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 18991

Reg: 11-21-04
05-31-18 11:43 AM - Post#257447    
    In response to bradley

I agree that I cannot fathom what the thought process is other than (1) Thou shall not pay for an arena and (2) Thou shall play all the games, both for men and women, at a single site.

The appropriateness of the site, either in terms of capacity or fairness, does not seem to be a factor.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1136

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
05-31-18 02:22 PM - Post#257453    
    In response to palestra38

What a shame.

As the league gets more competitive within itself, the administration has influenced things, in my opinion, in a negative way.

We had a perfectly fair contest - 7 common opponents, home and home, with a tie breaker at a neutral site. Instead of enjoying the impressive resurgence of Penn and the dark horse strengths at Cornell, Brown and Columbia, we've suffered two years focusing on the ground rules.

Again, what a shame.

 
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