Ben Franklin
Masters Student
Posts: 652
Loc: Cleveland
Reg: 02-19-05
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03-12-19 02:26 PM - Post#280840
In response to SRP
Mr. Smrt needed to buy a vowel.
Says Mr. Srp.
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weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2137
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
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03-12-19 02:41 PM - Post#280842
In response to LyleGold
My guess that it's the relative value of a place in the incoming freshman class of a particular school, not on the respective team, that has the price tag.
Makes sense.
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umbrellaman
Masters Student
Posts: 475
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-12-19 03:24 PM - Post#280851
In response to LyleGold
I knew this board would have the AI "booster" angle nailed down. Curious thing is that if these kids were "admittable" in the regular pool (which is the assumption because I can't imagine coaches would give up their "slots"), the amounts paid seem like they might be close enough to make a difference on the "legit" development side. It also raises the question of how they determine who gets the AI booster slots - the handful that I remember seem to come from feeder prep schools - the kind that have established relationships with the Ivys.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-12-19 04:25 PM - Post#280862
In response to SteveChop
So has Allen been explicitly connected to the overall scandal yet, and if so, was Esformes the "unrelated investigation" that laid all of this bare?
I feel vindicated but fear whether this will have any impact on Penn's B-Ball or athletic programs.
To heck with Penn--if the rot goes much further (and judging from the FBI's comments at the press conference, it does) the entire League may be in trouble, along with athletic programs at many other highfalutin' schools. We already know the disrespect that many Ivy students feel for athletes and the concern a lot of faculty and administrators have about the percentage of the student bodies they take up. This would be the perfect opportunity to push for cutting back on athletic slots, raising admissions standards, etc.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23360
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-12-19 04:33 PM - Post#280865
In response to dperry
There go the athletic schollies.
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westcoast
Senior
Posts: 302
Reg: 03-08-16
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-12-19 04:34 PM - Post#280866
In response to dperry
So has Allen been explicitly connected to the overall scandal yet, and if so, was Esformes the "unrelated investigation" that laid all of this bare?
In the FBI/DOJ press conference this morning, a reporter asked if the Jerome Allen case was the "unrelated investigation," and the answer was "No."
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RedAndBlue19
Freshman
Posts: 6
Age: 28
Reg: 12-16-18
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03-12-19 05:09 PM - Post#280878
In response to westcoast
This is my perspective as a student, and by no means do I want to cause controversy or anything of that sorts or start a political conversation.
There are many students within the Wharton population that one can see clearly how they have received admission. Don't really want to name specific names but just by looking at the name of the buildings one can infer rather easily.
The Esformes case is problematic for me and a few of my friends from a few perspectives. The first, the father is accused to frauding medicare, which to us symbolize the playing around with people's healthcare and their lives in exchange for not only the spot for his partying and his financial contributions to his "off campus fraternity" hosting lavish parties that gives them social status while millions of Americans are struggling with basic healthcare.
The students whose parents donated buildings and so on are furthering education for the many of us who are fortunate enough to receive this education and for many of us who are provided the financial aid to attend this school free of cost or at a severe discount. In that way, we get it and we are fine with those people as they provide 45% of the Penn population the possibility of coming to a school like this.
With the Esformes case, not only does it hint at them screwing over millions of Americans, but bribing their way through athletics has no and almost negative value to the student population. Wharton's UG acceptance rate as quoted on Poets & Quants was around 7%. I believe that the majority of those applicants are more than capable of holding up the academic standard. However, Wharton is always looking for cookie cutter applicants today with something much more than just your standard 4.0, 2400, president of 3 clubs. I think a statistic I heard when I was in admissions for my student job was that for every 4 applicants with 4.0s and 2400 SATs, we reject 3 of them. In that regard, it is difficult for me to believe that Morris would have earned a spot without the extra boost made by the coach.
With our basketball program as successful as it has been last year and this, it can't help but imagine how much stronger it could have been if we had a Bryce Aikens instead. Just my two cents from a student perspective.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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03-12-19 05:31 PM - Post#280882
In response to RedAndBlue19
Good points (although I don't really understand your reference to off campus frat parties unless you are talking about the son).
We were discussing earlier that there are many "admittable" students who are rejected precisely because they don't have something that stands out other than grades and scores (and even those that do). Certainly, being a legacy helps ---I have a daughter who is Class of '15 who was admittable at any Ivy but only was accepted at Penn among the 4 Ivies to which she applied. Being an athlete might be the surest way to obtain admission if you are admittable. And as we saw today, this is something that is a nationwide scandal----and something is going to have to be done to prevent it in the future--probably oversight. The immortal words of John Blutarsky are instructive here as we think about the relationship between the University and Jerome Allen: "You f---d up-you trusted us."
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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03-12-19 05:33 PM - Post#280884
In response to RedAndBlue19
There are many students within the Wharton population that one can see clearly how they have received admission. Don't really want to name specific names but just by looking at the name of the buildings one can infer rather easily.
This has always been the case.
The greatest Ivy admissions bias is the favoritism bestowed on the progeny of the rich and famous.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-12-19 05:42 PM - Post#280886
In response to TheLine
This has always been the case.
The greatest Ivy admissions bias is the favoritism bestowed on the progeny of the rich and famous.
True dat. Yet I doubt the Supreme Court will see any cases about this any time soon. They're too busy dealing with cases brought by the mighty (white) rich and famous who are trying to keep those who have been disproportionally disenfranchised out.
Edited by penn nation on 03-12-19 05:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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03-12-19 11:12 PM - Post#280912
In response to 10Q
There go the athletic schollies.
Ironically, you could actually use this to argue for scholarships, in that the over-recruiting the Ivies need to do to make up for people quitting makes this sort of scam easier to pull. If you have scholarships and limit the rosters accordingly, it would make the spots more valuable and therefore less likely to get used on this sort of thing. It wouldn't solve the problem, as there were plenty of scholarship schools involved in this, but it might help. However, I think de-emphasizing athletics in general is a much more likely reaction.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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03-12-19 11:15 PM - Post#280914
In response to RedAndBlue19
With our basketball program as successful as it has been last year and this, it can't help but imagine how much stronger it could have been if we had a Bryce Aikens instead. Just my two cents from a student perspective.
In fairness, Allen got fired exactly because he couldn't get the Bryce Aikens of the world to come to Penn, so I don't think Esformes cost us anything there. However, thank you for coming on and providing the student perspective, in particular the excellent point about building donors providing benefits to the campus as a whole.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-12-19 11:20 PM - Post#280916
In response to SteveChop
This was "doing business"?? I am so disappointed in, and incensed at, Jerome's actions that I just don't know what to say. It is just a disgrace.
I note that he is in both the Penn and Big 5 Halls of Fame. I have a feeling that those honors are going to be rescinded, and they certainly should be.
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-12-19 11:34 PM - Post#280919
In response to dperry
Could someone tell me how this is different from Jared's dad or Donald's dad bribing Ivy schools millions of dollars in exchange for their sons to gain admission? Why isn't the government going after that? Why just go after the middle man--or is that the point all along.
This was "doing business"?? I am so disappointed in, and incensed at, Jerome's actions that I just don't know what to say. It is just a disgrace.
I note that he is in both the Penn and Big 5 Halls of Fame. I have a feeling that those honors are going to be rescinded, and they certainly should be.
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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03-12-19 11:37 PM - Post#280920
In response to umbrellaman
Curious thing is that if these kids were "admittable" in the regular pool (which is the assumption because I can't imagine coaches would give up their "slots"),
I don't know about that. Keep in mind that even championship teams have people who rarely or never get off the bench, or quit early. Given how much people were willing to pay to get their kids in, even one ringer a year would make you rich pretty quickly.
Furthermore, many coaches are in bad situations and know it, and wouldn't necessarily mind using a slot to gain some financial security. For instance, the contact between Allen and Esformes occurred in 2013 and '14; Allen was on the hot seat all through that, and by the end of it, the writing was definitely on the wall. One could definitely see him giving in to the temptation to cash in before he got pushed out. Looking at the Yale soccer coach, he had a couple of good years in the mid '00s (made the third round of the NCAA's in 2005), but other than that, the record was pretty mediocre, and during much of that time, Yale was not enthusiastically supporting athletics. Again, if you don't have much chance of improving anyway, why not sell one slot? I don't approve of this, obviously, but I can understand the logic. (As an aside, while the Ivies have gotten better about getting rid of coaches who aren't doing well, there are still too many examples where people are retained long after it's clear that they're not the answer. Getting more serious about holding coaches accountable for performance would help prevent future incidents like this.)
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-13-19 12:27 AM - Post#280926
In response to westcoast
So has Allen been explicitly connected to the overall scandal yet, and if so, was Esformes the "unrelated investigation" that laid all of this bare?
In the FBI/DOJ press conference this morning, a reporter asked if the Jerome Allen case was the "unrelated investigation," and the answer was "No."
Well, Wharton always has been proud of turning out independent entrepreneurs. 
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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dperry
Postdoc
Posts: 2214
Loc: Houston, TX
Reg: 11-24-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-13-19 12:37 AM - Post#280927
In response to penn nation
Could someone tell me how this is different from Jared's dad or Donald's dad bribing Ivy schools millions of dollars in exchange for their sons to gain admission? Why isn't the government going after that? Why just go after the middle man--or is that the point all along.
No matter what we may think of those situations morally, there is no law that requires private schools to admit students solely on merit (it might be different for the public schools that are involved in this.) The schools go into that sort of thing with open eyes (and as Red and Blue19 points out, those donations generally benefit other students as well.) This situation, on the other hand, involves fraud on institutions that don't know what's happening. Also, they're not just going after the middlemen; the parents are getting busted too (and the FBI guy said that if they found evidence that students cooperated with these schemes, that they would go down as well.)
David Perry
Penn '92
"Hail, Alma Mater/Thy sons cheer thee now
To thee, Pennsylvania/All rivals must bow!!!" |
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-13-19 07:20 AM - Post#280934
In response to dperry
Totally agree.
My understanding is that there are about 20 development admits each year which is a very small % of the class. Plus there are all types of admission preferences which schools feel are beneficial. This includes legacy admits, athletes, first generation Americans, certain minorities, geographic preferences etc. It’s not a pure meritocracy.
But - fraud is an entirely different matter and those involved need to be held accountable.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3050
Reg: 10-20-14
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03-13-19 08:32 AM - Post#280942
In response to AsiaSunset
FYI - It looks like the former Yale soccer coach was a cooperating witness.
https://www.chronicle.com/article/8-Universitie s-M...
- Randolph (Rudy) Meredith, former head coach of the women’s soccer team (he was a cooperating witness; he agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud and honest-services wire fraud, as well as honest-services wire fraud, in hopes of lessening his sentence) -
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
03-13-19 11:33 AM - Post#280998
In response to penn nation
Could someone tell me how this is different from Jared's dad or Donald's dad bribing Ivy schools millions of dollars in exchange for their sons to gain admission? Why isn't the government going after that? Why just go after the middle man--or is that the point all along.
This post was a surprise. One may take issue with development admits, or any other special admit; but there is nothing illegal about it. Despite the similarities, I do not want to conflate Jerome's crimes with the larger scandal. What Jerome did was especially heinous as he was being well compensated (as opposed to a volleyball coach) and he also had the benefit of earnings from his playing days. This was greedy, and clearly fraudulent. If he sucked Ira in, that makes it worse. He likely covered it up by claiming Esformes was an AI slot - another dubious Ivy practice.
My takeaway from this is the the HOF honors should be pulled and his photos removed from the Palestra. The League needs some serious self-imposed reform in the direction of the original charter - or - give up the whole Ivy charade and go the power conference route ala Stanford, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, et. al.
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