rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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04-18-19 10:08 AM - Post#283744
In response to rbg
In the WaPo article:
- Classic public relations is proactive — getting a client’s name in newspapers and on television, helping them become the go-to expert everyone wants to interview. Crisis communication is very different: Sometimes you’re trying to keep a client out of the public eye or working with reporters to offer another narrative. -
- His solution is online reputation management and search engine optimization, which is a fancy way of saying, make sure that anyone doing a search for the kid (say, a potential employer) will find a lot about his or her life, hobbies, charitable work and more before they discover the link to the college bribery scandal. -
- So Engelmayer finds the positive details in the students’ lives that can be pulled out and created as new websites with domain names. That way, the first entries that appear during an online search are these pretty pages full of photos and well-written material. -
Mr. Engelmayer seems to be doing his job well.
Googling the younger Esformes today comes up with this article as the #1 listing.
https://thriveglobal.com/stories/upenn-student -mor...
The interview article linked here yesterday is now the 5th item when his name is placed in the search engine.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1146
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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04-18-19 02:36 PM - Post#283764
In response to rbg
Mr. Engelmayer seems to be doing his job well.
Googling the younger Esformes today comes up with this article as the #1 listing.
https://thriveglobal.com/stories/upenn-student -mor...
The interview article linked here yesterday is now the 5th item when his name is placed in the search engine.
Until I read that WaPo article, I had no idea that such a market existed.
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TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
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04-19-19 07:42 AM - Post#283789
In response to Go Green
It's been a market for years, though maybe not so much at the collegiate level.
This episode just exposes the illegal activities performed to get advantaged kids into good universities and not the legal ways to buy your way to a diploma at a top university. It shows how much of a joke the Harvard admissions lawsuit is - the problem isn't any little advantages given to disadvantaged students but the huge advantages that the well to have.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32816
Reg: 11-21-04
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04-19-19 07:54 AM - Post#283790
In response to TheLine
100% correct on the Harvard Lawsuit
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mbaprof 
Senior
Posts: 345
Age: 67
Reg: 12-24-11
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04-19-19 03:25 PM - Post#283817
In response to rbg
doesnt seem to be working so well when i google him
BTW if the content here is indicative, the level of research and writing in these blog posts and web sites does bring into question how strong an academic applicant to Wharton young Mo was.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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04-20-19 09:13 PM - Post#283831
In response to mbaprof
Yeah, it looked like it was written by a 5th grader.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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04-20-19 09:14 PM - Post#283832
In response to mbaprof
Yeah, it looked like it was written by a 5th grader. Then again, some of my housemates were pretty poor writers too and they got very good grades. It may not have been a Penn prerequisite to be able to write.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4911
Reg: 02-04-06
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04-20-19 09:19 PM - Post#283833
In response to Penndemonium
I knew a couple of people who made extra dough back in the day typing up the final copy of other students' senior theses (yep, on typewriter). They were not universally impressed with the writing or analytical abilities of the authors.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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05-02-19 09:02 AM - Post#284100
In response to SRP
Here's the latest PR piece on/about Morris Esformes, which is the 2nd one placed at the Thrive Global website.
https://thriveglobal.com/stories/morris-esform es-g...
With graduation just over 3 weeks away and no word on when/if Penn will release its findings on the Allen investigation, it would seem that the university is going to allow this young man to graduate. I guess the school has the right to take away his degree in the future, but it seems doubtful if they haven't done anything by now.
Quite frustrating.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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05-02-19 09:02 AM - Post#284101
In response to rbg
By the way - wasn't Jerome supposed to be sentenced in mid-April?
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
05-02-19 09:30 AM - Post#284103
In response to rbg
honestly, rbg, i have a hard time yanking a degree from someone 4 years minus 3 weeks into their tenure if they are in good academic standing. setting aside how much a 17 year old knew about this and how much we hold against a 17 year old, we know plenty of people have gotten penn degrees through the largesse of their parents, the difference was the guy bribed/donated less?
Edited by Jeff2sf on 05-02-19 09:31 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
05-02-19 09:58 AM - Post#284106
In response to Jeff2sf
I understand your point, and I would agree if things were being done behind the scenes without this young man's knowledge. While he many not have been aware of the paper bags filled with money and the private conversations between his father and Allen, this kid knew that a Division 1 college coach (from his #1 school) was coming down to visit and personally coach him.
I would think that any athlete involved in the world of college recruiting, especially someone with his intelligence and family affluence, would know this.
As a result, I feel his situation is in a different category from those cases where a parent and other adult(s) conspired to doctor test results and applications without a young adult's knowledge. In his case, I believe he was knowingly part of a fraudulent application and the school has the right to remove that student or remove the degree from one who has graduated.
If the Penn investigation reveals that this person truly did not know what was going on, then I would be open to changing my view.
FWIW, here is a story from a student that attended Cornell and two other schools that had her degree rescinded when she was found to have lied on her application:
https://cornellsun.com/2017/10/20/former-cor nell-s...
Edited by rbg on 05-02-19 09:59 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-02-19 10:16 AM - Post#284109
In response to rbg
guess it's just an issue of degree or whatever vs kind.
To me, I see the Cornell student and I think that's on such a different planet of wrongdoing whereas you probably just see it as being more egregious than Esformes.
I see donating a building to bribing a basketball coach as just different degrees of the same issue.
There's one other issue here that just makes the thing so dumb/rotten: my understanding is that every year, any Ivy coach has their pick of mediocre basketball players with 4.0 GPA that they will use as AI boosters. It essentially doesn't matter who they pick from the coach's persepective, that person will never play. It also doesn't really matter from the school's perspective because all of these 4.0 people are "qualified" to enter, and some certainly could get in even without being designated as a recruit, but their candidacy goes from 50/50 or 40/60 or whatever to 100%. Is that a fair representation of what's going on? To me then, it's completely plausible that a mediocre basketball player would find this all normal.
If Esformes grades were below average, that becomes a different situation about how irritated I get, but even still, I'm not completely sure I'd yank his diploma unless he knew about cash.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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05-02-19 11:37 AM - Post#284112
In response to Jeff2sf
I definitely agree that the former Cornell student's situation was lying on a different level. I was just highlighting it to show that schools can reach back and remove degrees if they find out about falsification of applications.
I also agree that the large dollar donation to a school seems like a bribe. The main differences are that the donation is above board and the product(s) of the donation can be utilized by other students in the form of things like a building, an endowed teaching position or scholarships.
I completely understand your point and ultimately feel we are close in our views on this specific case, just on different sides of the midline.
Maybe the findings of the investigation will provide more clarity.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8242
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-02-19 12:19 PM - Post#284116
In response to rbg
I agree with Jeff on this one FWIW
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3777
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
05-02-19 02:05 PM - Post#284120
In response to Streamers
I agree with Jeff on this one FWIW
Second that. Unless it can be established beyond a reasonable doubt that the kid knew about the bribe, I can't see kicking him out of school. This just isn't the same as cheating on a test or submitting a fraudulent application. I'm not saying it's OK, just that I think that, in this specific case, expelling this student seems like a disproportionate penalty.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1900
Reg: 11-29-04
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05-03-19 02:12 AM - Post#284130
In response to Jeff2sf
This one is tricky. I formerly thought you couldn't kick him out, as he may not have known about it. Now I think you have to do it, as it was a blatant bribe. The behavior of the father absolutely cannot be rewarded. I don't wish for the son to suffer for his father's sins, but it is direct cause (bribe) and effect (admissions).
The one difference between this and the Varsity Blues cases is that the son may not have lied on his application. He played basketball, and provided he answered truthfully about his teams and roles, his application may not have been fraudulent. Then again, the father employed Singer and who knows what they said on the application. Nevertheless, a fraud was still committed.
I also think the AI admits are a workaround that essentially makes a mockery of the AI. I'd rather that they just lower the AI than resort to these shenanigans. It's probable that all schools do it, but then why do we need the AI if everyone bypasses it? If not all schools do this, then it gives an unfair advantage. Either way, it sucks.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3052
Reg: 10-20-14
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05-03-19 08:52 AM - Post#284134
In response to Penndemonium
Shouldn't the student be held responsible for receiving personal and continued instruction from the head coach of the University of Pennsylvania (his desired school), which is completely unethical and against NCAA rules?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32816
Reg: 11-21-04
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05-03-19 09:21 AM - Post#284138
In response to rbg
I think Penn could expel or take a diploma away from him. I do not believe it will. Too many kids who are admittable get in with various forms of inside help over other admittable kids who do not. If he were not otherwise admittable, like those Full House kids at USC, that would be a different story. But it appears that he got in in a manner that made sure he got in but he well could have been admitted especially had he applied early decision. It probably would open up a can of worms if they expelled him since he would sue, and expose all forms of line-crossing. This should cause some serious self-reflection on the part of Penn and all other schools in which similar things have happened, but I do not believe they will expel or take away his diploma.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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05-03-19 10:19 AM - Post#284140
In response to palestra38
I think Penn could expel or take a diploma away from him. I do not believe it will. Too many kids who are admittable get in with various forms of inside help over other admittable kids who do not. If he were not otherwise admittable, like those Full House kids at USC, that would be a different story. But it appears that he got in in a manner that made sure he got in but he well could have been admitted especially had he applied early decision. It probably would open up a can of worms if they expelled him since he would sue, and expose all forms of line-crossing. This should cause some serious self-reflection on the part of Penn and all other schools in which similar things have happened, but I do not believe they will expel or take away his diploma.
this is what i was getting at. the whole system is rotten. as a kid he's innocent (in the same biblical way as original sin or whatever)... but in a few years he'll just be part of the system and tainted by it like WE ARE.
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