Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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07-23-18 02:44 PM - Post#259307
In response to Jeff2sf
I don't suppose you guys can come up with other examples of Allen signing guys who didn't really seem to be of the usual caliber for a Penn basketball recruit?
Guys, the line to hit this softball forms to the right. Let's make sure it's done in an orderly fashion.
Sounds like Penn's investigators are going to be busy in the upcoming weeks.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-23-18 02:53 PM - Post#259308
In response to Jeff2sf
I recall there was a son of a Texas billionaire who flew his son's AAU teams on a private jet. In that case, I could at least believe the son had serious intent to play basketball, even though I don't think he saw the court much or at all. I also can't remember if that was a Miller or Allen recruit. I suppose it is a dangerous and unfair witch hunt to associate kids' names with this situation.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-23-18 02:56 PM - Post#259309
In response to palestra38
I didn't realize there were these issues with him. I'm pretty far removed from things and don't get to see the press interaction much. I had always assumed the communication issues were from being introverted. I also always believed that was part of his problem as a coach - management and communication skill.
Still unsure - should we consider him guilty or wait to find out more? The articles sound credible.
I think one of the ongoing false assumptions here was that Allen was a "role model" and a good guy. He was neither. Sure, he could be a father figure to those for whom he could get a return (his recruits, when not selling the slots), but to the student press, he was abusive and intimidating. As someone who was student press and had to interview Chuck Daly, he would tell you that you knew nothing about basketball (relatively true, of course), but sit with you and give a true interview, not one word answers filled with anger. Sure, Allen was losing, but a coach is supposed to be a professional and at least cordial to the student press. To me, that was a telescope into his character, as were the debacles with Cartwright and Bagtas. There is no denying the guy's competitiveness and talent as a player, but on many levels, he was the worst coach in modern Penn history, and given that we had two other failed coaching regimes, that is saying something. Let's just hope this does not lead to any NCAA punishment, because the program is now being run in the right way.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3765
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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07-23-18 02:59 PM - Post#259310
In response to Penndemonium
As Malcolm Gladwell might say, this episode raises new and troubling questions. Have other coaches at highly competitive institutions been doing this? You don't have to be a basketball coach and you don't have to be at Penn to sell an admission slot.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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07-23-18 02:59 PM - Post#259311
In response to Penndemonium
I suppose it is a dangerous and unfair witch hunt to associate kids' names with this situation.
No doubt.
But if I'm Penn, I sure would like to know if this has happened more than once.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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07-23-18 03:01 PM - Post#259312
In response to Silver Maple
As Malcolm Gladwell might say, this episode raises new and troubling questions. Have other coaches at highly competitive institutions been doing this? You don't have to be a basketball coach and you don't have to be at Penn to sell an admission slot.
Presumably, those are the types of things that Penn's investigators are going to be looking at.
Maybe this is an isolated incident. Or maybe it's not.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-23-18 07:22 PM - Post#259344
In response to Go Green
Jordan Salzman? Remember him? Certainly had some similarity with Esformes. Committed as a soph when Jerome was still there and we asked similar questions about his D1 creds.
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1878
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-23-18 08:25 PM - Post#259345
In response to AsiaSunset
It's hard to separate GPA admits vs. bribe admits.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-23-18 10:49 PM - Post#259347
In response to Penndemonium
Certainly seems to be plenty of smoke. It sounds like the explanation/Defense is that Allen was providing private coaching for the kid. I don’t know precisely what the rules are in regard to that sort of thing, either legally, contractually, or under NCAA rules. Seems fraught even if it isn’t against any rules on its face. It also seems like $53,000 is a lot of money for private coaching.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 07:39 AM - Post#259350
In response to SomeGuy
That's total manure. It's one thing to moonlight on your more than fulltime job and sponge money off a "recruit" (which almost certainly is a fireable offense), but falsely listing a kid as a "recruit" in order to gain him admission is fraud.
I'd love to hear Fran Dunphy's thoughts on this.
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rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3044
Reg: 10-20-14
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07-24-18 08:30 AM - Post#259363
In response to palestra38
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/...
- Outside of the indictment of Esformes, that defense could be complicated. For starters, many commenters have noted that the payments seem quite high for some basketball coaching (for which time would have been limited, since Allen has a full-time job in another city). Esformes is alleged to have paid Allen in cash alone roughly what a year at Penn costs a parent whose student doesn't qualify for financial aid.
Then there is the question of Penn and NCAA rules. While many basketball coaches augment their income through basketball camps and other activities, taking direct payments (or money-laundered payments) from the parent of someone about to apply would generally not be permitted.
Mike Mahoney, director of athletic communications at Penn, said that the university was not commenting on the indictment. Asked if the university would allow a coach to receive payments for individual basketball coaching, as Esformes's lawyer said was the case, Mahoney said via email, "I believe NCAA rules would not allow a coach to provide individual training to a recruitable athlete."
An NCAA spokeswoman did not respond to an email requesting comment. -
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10Q
Professor
Posts: 23199
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 08:58 AM - Post#259365
In response to rbg
Didn't Jerome make a ton of money playing overseas? This is just a ridiculous story.
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ahg46
Freshman
Posts: 11
Age: 77
Reg: 10-06-15
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07-24-18 11:12 AM - Post#259373
In response to 10Q
i recall many an instance where a rich family donated monies to a University to have their child in a D1 program. do you feel this is ethical by those e Universities?
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 11:31 AM - Post#259374
In response to ahg46
While there is a certain analogy to be made, the difference is that an employee took a bribe to falsely categorize a student as an athlete, when he was not. So the University was not getting the benefit of having a major donor---Jerome was stealing money to have his loyalty purchased. He allegedly was working on company time making fake recruiting trips while getting paid off by the kid's father. You can argue that donors should not get any benefit from their donations, but you also can argue that legacies should not be rewarded as well. The fact is that in both cases, there is a benefit to the University--here there was not.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 11:34 AM - Post#259375
In response to ahg46
There are development cases at Penn and other Ivies every year where large donations afford a child a significant admissions boost. These are disclosed contributions. Whether one thinks this is ethical or not varies. Many think giving athletes an admissions break is unethical. The same goes for legacies.
But - this is different. It's an under the table payment to an employee to do something to get a kid, arguably not deserving, on one of these preferred admission lists. Even if he was deserving, this kind of payment to an employee is clearly unethical and perhaps a misdemeanor offense under Pa criminal statutes.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 11:49 AM - Post#259377
In response to AsiaSunset
This is the statute that would apply here:
https://law.justia.com/codes/pennsylvania/20 10/tit...
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-24-18 12:04 PM - Post#259378
In response to ahg46
i'd be more sympathetic to this argument if it was made on behalf of a coach making less than 200K a year.
Or if there was evidence that a director of admissions was putting money in his/her pocket from a million dollar donation.
Finally, I'm curious, what do you think the "minimum" donation is to get an admissions slot - just how much money did this guy save over the 53K he ended up spending? Do you think it's 7 figures?
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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07-24-18 12:06 PM - Post#259379
In response to palestra38
How is it that the Celtics haven't taken any public action at this point? Can't imagine he remains on their staff with this out there. It's not even just a story in the paper - it's detailed in a longer federal indictment of Esformes which tells me that the facts must be pretty clear or it wouldn't have been included.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32685
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 12:06 PM - Post#259380
In response to Jeff2sf
Probably a sliding scale depending on how much help the kid needs to be admittable.
But yes, a donation of $53K in cash would get you a plaque over a water fountain.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-24-18 12:12 PM - Post#259381
In response to Okoro Dude
exactly how many boston celtics fans do you think are upset about an assistant coach getting a rich kid into a school in philadelphia full of other privileged rich kids at the expense of other more deserving rich kids?
there's your answer.
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