Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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07-24-18 12:12 PM - Post#259382
In response to Okoro Dude
https://future150.com/hs/basketball-news/20 18-sg-j...
This article from 2013 is priceless - the only thing funnier is the comment from a reader at the bottom.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 12:28 PM - Post#259383
In response to Okoro Dude
A poster posted that video on the Ivy Sports Board. But it's from 2013 when he was a sophomore. There's a tape on the Internet from his senior year that has the look of a normal recruiting tape (although it's still the Hebrew Academy and I never thought he was anything more than an AI booster when he was recruited to Penn). Michael Jordon's (the real one) sophomore tape probably wouldn't have been great considering the fact he was cut from his high schools varsity team that year. But - as I said - no one thought Mo would have any impact on the Penn team at any stage.
Now we've found out there was much more to the story than simply taking an AI booster.
Not too sure what this Penn investigation is all about other than to ascertain if anybody else knew this was going on. It's not like they have subpoena power or that Jerome or Esformes has to talk to them.
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Jeff2sf
Postdoc
Posts: 4466
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-24-18 12:46 PM - Post#259384
In response to AsiaSunset
could they kick the younger esformes out of school? how responsible is he for his dad's acts? assuming he didn't have knowledge, which for me is easy enough to believe.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 01:02 PM - Post#259386
In response to Jeff2sf
I don't know but I doubt it. As you said there is nothing to suggest he did anything wrong.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 01:12 PM - Post#259387
In response to AsiaSunset
Yes, unless he made material misrepresentations about his record in his application, they will not do anything to the kid.
I tend to disagree with Jeff, however, that nothing will happen to Jerome. I don't see the Celtics ignoring this. This is not just a violation of NCAA rules, which is the usual thing NBA teams ignore about former college coaches.
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frank
Junior
Posts: 211
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-24-18 01:18 PM - Post#259388
In response to palestra38
I'm just back from vacation and rading this thread. Has Jerome issued a denial, or any kind of statement, or did I miss it?
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 01:18 PM - Post#259389
In response to Penndemonium
I recall there was a son of a Texas billionaire who flew his son's AAU teams on a private jet. In that case, I could at least believe the son had serious intent to play basketball, even though I don't think he saw the court much or at all. I also can't remember if that was a Miller or Allen recruit. I suppose it is a dangerous and unfair witch hunt to associate kids' names with this situation.
Preston Troutt
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Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1877
Reg: 11-29-04
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07-24-18 01:29 PM - Post#259390
In response to Jeff2sf
This whole story raises all kinds of questions - many of which we'll never get satisfactory answers to.
The thing about this is that we're quick to judge Jerome poorly on this. A more forgiving thread of how this may have played out goes like this...
Jerome Allen takes a recruiting trip to see Mo because of fake news videos and articles created by Philip and because of calls from Dwayne Wade's trainer that the kid is the real deal. He's just doing his job at that point. Possibly Jerome shows a bit of hesitancy, and Philip arranges a private jet so time and expense can't be as much of an excuse. Perhaps he says he was already flying from Philly to Miami and Jerome can hitch a ride. Mo shows himself to be a fine kid, a hard worker, and having received a lot of training - but not a true D1 player.
At this point, Philip applies a full court press. Presents himself as a future benefactor of the program. Gets Dwayne Wade's trainer to say he will use connections to recruit Miami based players to Penn. Offers to endow assistant coaching positions.
Jerome thinks to himself that occasionally Penn uses a basketball slot for AI purposes. Why not use it for this kid, whose family may provide other benefits to Penn.
Somewhere in that process, Philip sends checks to Jerome under the guise of reimbursements or fees for coaching - something along those lines.
In this narrative, Jerome still made a terrible decision in accepting a payment and deserves whatever repercussions he faces. My point is that people who give bribes actually aren't necessarily in conspiracies with other bad people. They groom normal people but suck them in deeper. They prey on their weaknesses by flashing private jets and money.
While my narrative is purely a fiction, I raise it just as a way to say that I'm not completely sure to what degree I am utterly disgusted by Jerome's actions or actually pity his poor decisions and the consequences. I hope he is a man enough to admit whatever he did or didn't do and save everyone a lot of pain (and expense).
I will not judge him, as I didn't grow up in his circumstances. He doesn't deserve a free pass either. He did not need non-salary payments to survive. He had a Penn degree, a great network, and a decent salary. He was not lacking for opportunity at that stage of his life.
He was just a poor head coach under any measure. Now he has also tarnished the excellent legacy of Penn basketball coaching. Assuming the facts prove the news story to be true, he is a fallen idol. He probably won't be the last.
If the stories are true do you think his picture should be removed from the Palestra?
Clearly I've been overthinking this situation...
could they kick the younger esformes out of school? how responsible is he for his dad's acts? assuming he didn't have knowledge, which for me is easy enough to believe.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4350
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-24-18 01:51 PM - Post#259396
In response to Penndemonium
An interesting construct and it's ok for you to give Jerome the benefit of the doubt for now, but the first trip to Miami was a commercial airline flight by Jerome that Esfromes paid $2000+ for. That's an obvious NCAA violation and one every Penn coach receives in depth training on avoiding. This should have been nipped in the bud had Jerome not been a willing participant. As a result I'm not sure I can be as generous as you want to be in interpreting this as anything other than what it appears to be.
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Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 570
Reg: 11-22-04
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn 07-24-18 01:52 PM - Post#259397
In response to Penndemonium
I admire your generosity of spirit, Penndemonium.
But Penn gave Allen three huge breaks: They went to the wall to accept him as a student when he was a marginal admit at best; they gave him the professional break of his career; and, they gave him a soft landing when he failed as coach.
You'd think he would refuse any kind of largesse simply out of loyalty to the institution that helped him so much. Nope.
Edited by Penn90 on 07-24-18 01:53 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6391
Reg: 11-22-04
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07-24-18 10:19 PM - Post#259418
In response to AsiaSunset
In some ways, the obviousness could fit some aspects of the narrative though. It seems so obvious that I wonder if Allen had any idea that what he was doing was wrong. Yes, he certainly would have been trained to avoid that sort of thing, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he got the point of the training. It also could be yet another reason you don’t make a guy with 7 games as an unpaid assistant your head coach suddenly mid season — it is possible that some protocols for on-boarding a new guy got skipped because there was a game in a week, and the new guy wasn’t experienced enough to know.
Anyway, i’m doing my best to keep an open mind. My lawyer brain tells me to remember there could be an explanation — I just have trouble coming up with precisely what it could be.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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07-24-18 10:38 PM - Post#259421
In response to SomeGuy
If Penn had survived Alabama, this all would be different.
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gopenngo
Masters Student
Posts: 487
Reg: 01-30-06
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07-24-18 10:44 PM - Post#259422
In response to gopenngo
But, seriously. The HYPers have to be LMFAO to think there is outrage about $ influencing admissions. Yeah, low guy on totem pole takes the heat. And, of course, the Tanned One pulled a Sgt Schultz.
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SRP
Postdoc
Posts: 4894
Reg: 02-04-06
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07-25-18 12:48 AM - Post#259426
In response to gopenngo
The two consolations I think can be taken from this tale are that, first, a Penn admission slot is highly desirable and second, the reverse polarity from the usual NCAA scandal is humorously IL--people pretending to be athletes so they can be processed by the academic factory. "Do you know that X was recruited to play basketball at Penn and he can barely dribble, but he's an expert in geochemical isotope analysis? It's a scandal!"
There are many ways to skin this particular cat. A high school classmate of mine who was a talented athlete (played football at Penn State) transferred to Princeton and never played a down, quitting the team with alacrity.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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07-25-18 06:21 AM - Post#259427
In response to SomeGuy
Anyway, i’m doing my best to keep an open mind. My lawyer brain tells me to remember there could be an explanation — I just have trouble coming up with precisely what it could be.
Apparently, so does Allen.
If there was an innocent explanation, I think we would have heard it by now from him.
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Go Green
PhD Student
Posts: 1124
Age: 52
Reg: 04-22-10
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07-25-18 06:25 AM - Post#259428
In response to SRP
"Do you know that X was recruited to play basketball at Penn and he can barely dribble, but he's an expert in geochemical isotope analysis? It's a scandal!"
Usually the geochemical isotope analysists don't bother effing with athletics when they apply for admission. They often get in on their own.
I think it's fair to assume that such is not the case with this individual.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32680
Reg: 11-21-04
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07-25-18 07:52 AM - Post#259429
In response to SRP
That often happens. One of my college roommates was recruited to Penn from growing up in Towson, MD as a talented lacrosse player. Showed up, quit and enjoyed Penn as a student. But the difference is that he was legitimately recruited and no money changed hands. Without athletic scholarships, there is nothing requiring the recruited athlete to play when he or she attends. That of course, is one of the reasons Ivy coaches recruit so many players.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1150
Reg: 07-28-07
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn 07-25-18 11:46 AM - Post#259435
In response to palestra38
Two comments, P38.
The first is that the method the lacrosse player you cite may have used his ability to play lacrosse as a way to get into an Ivy League school. Don't know whether he had any real intention of trying to play lacrosse at Penn, tried to play but found the time constraints of playing a division I sport too much, or just used the system. He would not be the first or last athlete to do so.
Mike Jensen had a column in this morning's Inquirer hypothesizing that Jerome/Penn used Esformes as a way to raise Penn's basketball AI, another fallacy of the AI system. This is done ALL THE TIME by Ivy league coaches to enable them to have athletes admitted who would otherwise not be.
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/mik e_jense...
The one thing that still is a problem is why Jerome would have taken any payments. If he wanted to use Esformes as an AI raiser, there was no need to take money to do so (if he did - I, too, am a lawyer and will wait to hear the facts from the other side).
Edited by SteveChop on 07-25-18 11:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1150
Reg: 07-28-07
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn 07-25-18 11:47 AM - Post#259436
In response to palestra38
[Deleted]
Edited by SteveChop on 07-25-18 11:48 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Okoro Dude
Senior
Posts: 309
Loc: Glen Mills, PA
Reg: 11-24-04
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07-25-18 11:48 AM - Post#259437
In response to SomeGuy
Sorry, hard to have an open mind on this one. What is described is clearly wrong and anyone who gets to a leadership position as high as head coach of a college basketball program has to be able to know this and be accountable for failure to do the right thing. I am not buying any innocent explanation that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong. If others knew or provided inadequate oversight, then they are culpable too, but for sure Allen is wrong here.
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