palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 11:09 AM - Post#262348
In response to Condor
That's just what he pled to. Probably because if the full amount were the subject of the plea (I believe the number was $76K), it would have been a harsher sentence.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 11:09 AM - Post#262349
In response to Condor
It was a bribe to encourage Jerome to code this kid as a recruited athlete. It wasn't a gift to the school.
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 11:19 AM - Post#262350
In response to AsiaSunset
It was a bribe to encourage Jerome to code this kid as a recruited athlete. It wasn't a gift to the school.
I know. I just compared the school gifts to indicate the value/savings of the bribe.
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 11:25 AM - Post#262351
In response to palestra38
That's just what he pled to. Probably because if the full amount were the subject of the plea (I believe the number was $76K), it would have been a harsher sentence.
That makes sense. Regardless, it is difficult to grasp.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 12:04 PM - Post#262359
In response to Condor
You can't just give $250,000 to Penn and secure admissions. They do have about 10-20 development cases each year, but there is no magic bullet. I know a family that donated $500,000 to get their kid off the waiting list. It worked but she partied a lot and flunked out.
Penn is basically need blind but for these few cases each year.
You can bet the Trump kids were development cases. Those were the years that he actually gave decent money to the school. He hasn't been particularly generous to Penn relatively speaking considering he likes to throw the Wharton brand around for self aggrandizing purposes.
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Condor
PhD Student
Posts: 1888
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 12:25 PM - Post#262361
In response to AsiaSunset
That is exactly my point. Ignoring the ethical issues, JA was a pretty cheap date.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-10-18 06:18 PM - Post#262379
In response to AsiaSunset
Did he ever make significant contributions commensurate with his self-proclaimed net worth? I had heard from a fairly reliable source he never did much over 5 figures.
There is also a legend out there he inquired on what it cost to rename the Wharton School or buy naming rights for a building, but he was quickly priced out.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-11-18 09:26 AM - Post#262396
In response to Streamers
Pretty much everything is for sale on the Penn campus ("YOUR NAME HERE!"). Therefore, considering nothing has the Trump name on it, I had always assumed that he had never given a nickel to the school.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-11-18 09:38 AM - Post#262397
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
Certainly that is true at Penn (but isn't it everywhere?). BTW, does anyone actually call Logan Hall Claudia Cohen (Page 6) Hall?
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yoyo
Senior
Posts: 363
Reg: 03-25-09
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10-11-18 02:49 PM - Post#262409
In response to palestra38
Trump University Quakers
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SteveChop
PhD Student
Posts: 1154
Reg: 07-28-07
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-11-18 03:34 PM - Post#262411
In response to Condor
We all agree that we don’t understand why Jerome would have taken ANY money. The amount could have something to do with that that Jerome owed to two people or other circumstances of which we have no knowledge. I think we are uniform in agreeing that the whole episode makes little, if any, sense. Therefore , why should the amount of compromise make any sense or tie to logic. As far as finding out about other such incidents, I think it is unlikely other than in circumstances like the ones in this case. Has that happened before? It’s not unlikely. Will it happen again? Maybe but perhaps admissions officers will be more circumspect about athletes though, as someone noted, they cannot presumed to be judges of athletic abilities. While this group focuses on basketball, no reason why this couldn’t happen in minor sports-they too are subject to the AI and could have the same reasons as Mr Esformes, I.e. To get their child a top quality, Ivy League education
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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10-11-18 03:51 PM - Post#262413
In response to SteveChop
This strikes me as something that would be very difficult-- impossible, actually-- for a university to detect. As long as the family and the coach are discreet, how would anybody else ever know? The only reason this incident came to light was because Mr. Esformes got busted for something else, and when the FBI dissected his finances they turned this up. Otherwise we'd all still be remembering Jerome Allen (relatively) fondly.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-11-18 03:56 PM - Post#262414
In response to Silver Maple
"Otherwise we'd all still be remembering Jerome Allen (relatively) fondly."
Some of us, anyway.
I frankly don't understand the hatred for Miller and the love for Allen. Miller didn't betray the University and frankly, left the program in much better shape than did Allen. To me, his greatness as a Penn player has nothing to do with this---if anything, it makes it a greater betrayal.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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10-11-18 10:17 PM - Post#262427
In response to palestra38
Well, the bribery issue is new — is anybody really lining up to speak fondly of Allen in light of that?
Before that came to light, I see it a little differently from the way you do. To me, it isn’t just comparing where the team was when they each left — it’s also about where the program was when they each started. When Miller started, we were undoubtedly the class of the conference. When he left, we were one of the worst teams in the country. And that is what was going on on the court. You also had the team become a less professional operation during that time (which some of the players’ families pointed out at the time — and these were kids who chose to come and play for Miller).
Allen picked that situation up and couldn’t get out of it. Miller obviously left him with one great player and a couple of good pieces. But that last Miller freshman class was shockingly bad, with one division one player in it (who basically had one decent season — for bucknell). Some of Allen’s recruits contributed to an Ivy championship; none of Miller’s recruits did.
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AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4358
Reg: 11-21-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-12-18 05:48 AM - Post#262432
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
This is a pretty good article documenting the Trump families donations to Penn.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2016/11/trump s-histo...
The lack of charity relative to their supposed level of wealth is paltry considering how Trump repeatedly trumpets his Wharton pedigree as proof of his intellectual prowess.
I was at Citicorp in the 80's. We had loaned Donald Trump a lot of money. He was flat broke and technically bankrupt. He squandered his father Fred's fortune. We kept him afloat and baby sat him through the economic downturn because this was preferable to taking possession of his assets. Had Trump simply held onto the real estate empire Fred had built in Brooklyn and Queens he'd be so much wealthier than he is today.
Before the banks were considered too big to fail in the last downturn, it was people like Donald Trump who were considered too big to fail by his lenders. It's ironic that so many who railed against efforts to keep our banks afloat and our auto industry in business supported and still support him.
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T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
PhD Student
Posts: 1171
Loc: Our Nation's Capital
Reg: 01-18-05
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-12-18 08:52 AM - Post#262436
In response to AsiaSunset
I was at Citicorp in the 80's. We had loaned Donald Trump a lot of money. He was flat broke and technically bankrupt ... We kept him afloat and baby sat him through the economic downturn because this was preferable to taking possession of his assets.
In other words, it's all your fault. Thanks, Asia! ;-)
What I found amazing about that NYT investigation was how Fred kept giving Donald money, knowing damn well the son was urinating it all away. Sure, Fred was a tax cheat and cheapskate and a plain old SOB, but at least he knew how to make money. Why he entrusted so much of his gains to his financially incompetent son remains a mystery to me.
Maybe Fred felt Donald was the least bad of his options. The eldest son was an alcoholic, and I think the other son was an even worse businessman than Donald. Probably should have entrusted it to Maryanne, who clearly is the smartest of Fred's kids.
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Streamers
Professor
Posts: 8220
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
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10-12-18 09:04 AM - Post#262439
In response to T.P.F.K.A.D.W.
As the article points out, Trump typically does not make good on his pledges so it’s hard to know what he actually gave. Beyond that, some of the money came from his foundation which he does not fund it large part.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-12-18 09:07 AM - Post#262440
In response to SomeGuy
I see it completely differently than you. Miller did indeed inherit great seniors, but it was absolutely bare below that, except for Grandieri, a junior. Dunph certainly knew when to get out. Miller had to start from scratch, brought in Schreiber and Reilly that first year (both high recruits who didn't work out because of injury) then Bernardini, Eggleston, Gaines, Belcore, Rosen, Howlett, Turley and Monckton. No question he flamed out under the pressure of losing and just not being a guy who could stay cool under such pressure. So these are the guys Allen inherited and got to within a game of a championship. Or his experienced assistants did, for as soon as they left, he collapsed, despite recruiting some guys who could really play--Hicks, Howard, Cartwright, Dougherty, DNH, Brooks (well...) and in his last year, Woods and Foreman. Guy simply could not coach and left far less for Donahue than Miller left for him. Sure those guys made the Ivy tournament (4th place), primarily due to much better coaching, but the 2nd place team Allen got was a better team. And Allen's last 3 years, with his own recruits, lost 20, 22 and 19--worse than any Miller year, and they were not killed by injuries as were Miller's teams.
Anyway, even leaving aside the bribery, Allen was just a terrible coach. Set the program back years.
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penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21193
Reg: 12-02-04
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-12-18 09:11 AM - Post#262441
In response to AsiaSunset
David Fahrenthold of the Washington Post won a Pulitzer for investigating the total sham that is/was the Trump Foundation. There's no "there" there.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-12-18 11:22 AM - Post#262450
In response to palestra38
Anyway, even leaving aside the bribery, Allen was just a terrible coach. Set the program back years.
To be clear, JA set the program back 3 years. Upon his removal, that's what it took a good coach to get back to the top. Leaving him there wasn't Jerome's fault, it was on the AD.
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