palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32919
Reg: 11-21-04
|
Re: Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-12-18 11:29 AM - Post#262451
In response to PennFan10
I've been pretty vocal about Bilsky, too.
|
10Q
Professor
Posts: 23579
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-12-18 11:44 AM - Post#262465
In response to PennFan10
I can forgive the bribery. It's the terrible coaching that is unpardonable.
|
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3783
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
|
10-12-18 11:45 AM - Post#262466
In response to PennFan10
It was also the ADs fault for hiring Jerome in the first place. It was a terrible decision. Hiring Miller, even though it worked out terribly, was at least a defensible decision. There was no good reason to think that Jerome Allen was qualified to be head coach, and the result wasn't a surprise. Even making him interim coach was a bad call.
|
Penndemonium
PhD Student
Posts: 1905
Reg: 11-29-04
|
10-12-18 01:10 PM - Post#262474
In response to Silver Maple
I don't disagree with the point, although many on this board were much more positive and optimistic about Jerome at the time.
I was quite negative on it initially, but also eventually got caught up in the hope that a Penn hero could also turn out to be the positive coach and role model we all hoped he would be. I also received a PM on this board from a player who was personally lobbying for Jerome. The player was asking members of the board to write letters to the administration. The player said that any of the players would run through a brick wall for Jerome and that he was a great talent for recruiting and in-game strategy. That helped to mitigate my skepticism a bit.
It is easy to be critical of Jerome and Miller, but the truth is that being a head coach is just incredibly hard. All people have strengths and weaknesses, and the ability to create sustainable excellence depends up on a coach's executive skills. Those executive skills are only partially overlapping from those that make someone a great player or assistant. Great player management, assistant management, recruiting, scouting, player development, in-game coaching, PR, school administration management, etc. Assistants only need to be good at one or two of those things. Coaches need to be great at all of them or else recruit, empower, and retain people who fill in the gaps.
Miller was clearly a great coach at Brown. Perhaps he didn't assemble the right pieces at Penn. Jerome seemed to have great assistant potential but not much executive skill. At the Celtics, he can focus on the things he does well and there is plenty of other executive talent to handle everything else important to the team. In college, you have to do so much more yourself.
I know everyone is down on Jerome. I can't condone what he did. I hate how he hurt his reputation, Penn's reputation, and his legacy. That said, I don't suddenly think he's a bad person. Everyone snaps to judgment on these things, but even decent people can make some (really) bad decisions sometimes. The truly bad ones are the narcissists whose only regrets are about consequences.
It was also the ADs fault for hiring Jerome in the first place. It was a terrible decision. Hiring Miller, even though it worked out terribly, was at least a defensible decision. There was no good reason to think that Jerome Allen was qualified to be head coach, and the result wasn't a surprise. Even making him interim coach was a bad call.
|
penn nation
Professor
Posts: 21316
Reg: 12-02-04
|
10-12-18 02:24 PM - Post#262487
In response to Penndemonium
Man, you really buried the lede.
I also received a PM on this board from a player who was personally lobbying for Jerome. The player was asking members of the board to write letters to the administration.
|
Charlie Fog
Masters Student
Posts: 587
Age: 55
Loc: Philly
Reg: 11-12-13
|
10-14-18 06:46 AM - Post#262529
In response to Silver Maple
It was also the ADs fault for hiring Jerome in the first place. It was a terrible decision. Hiring Miller, even though it worked out terribly, was at least a defensible decision. There was no good reason to think that Jerome Allen was qualified to be head coach, and the result wasn't a surprise. Even making him interim coach was a bad call.
Well said. Jerome is still a hero to the program
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32919
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-14-18 07:39 PM - Post#262554
In response to Charlie Fog
No way.
|
10Q
Professor
Posts: 23579
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-15-18 08:55 AM - Post#262575
In response to palestra38
Agreed. His hero status is long gone.
|
Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3783
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
|
10-15-18 09:02 AM - Post#262580
In response to 10Q
I was kind of assuming that Charlie was being ironic with that statement. Perhaps I am mistaken.
|
Penn90
Masters Student
Posts: 575
Reg: 11-22-04
|
10-15-18 10:27 AM - Post#262593
In response to Silver Maple
I forgot that JA was elected to the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame.
Beyond any legal reprisals, I wonder how Penn will punish him from an optics perspective.
|
10Q
Professor
Posts: 23579
Loc: Suburban Philly
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-15-18 10:34 AM - Post#262594
In response to Penn90
Exhibit A: The Steve Wynne Wall of Fame.
|
weinhauers_ghost
Postdoc
Posts: 2144
Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 12-14-09
|
Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-15-18 12:19 PM - Post#262601
In response to Penn90
I forgot that JA was elected to the Penn Athletics Hall of Fame.
Beyond any legal reprisals, I wonder how Penn will punish him from an optics perspective.
Exhibit A: The Steve Wynne Wall of Fame.
::bites tongue, stifles snide political remark::
Edited by weinhauers_ghost on 10-15-18 12:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3068
Reg: 10-20-14
|
10-17-18 08:49 AM - Post#262778
In response to weinhauers_ghost
It doesn't seem that the Celtics have had any public statements about Allen since the initial comments from Ainge and Stevens praising Jerome for owning up to the charges brought against him.
There were some comments from Boston area papers stating Allen would probably get a two week suspension, but the team has not said anything.
For those watching last night's Sixers-Celtics game, was Jerome on the bench?
|
rbg
Postdoc
Posts: 3068
Reg: 10-20-14
|
10-23-18 11:43 PM - Post#263388
In response to rbg
The DP has comments from Dean of Admissions Eric Furda about the post-Jerome landscape between Athletics and Admissions.
https://www.thedp.com/article/2018/10/jerom e-allen...
- Furda suggested new professional development and training for staffers in both departments to prevent future incidents of bribery. He added that any staffer, regardless of their seniority, should go through the training process.
Furda noted, however, excessive regulation of the recruitment and admission process could hinder the ability of both departments to do their jobs well.
“Is One College Hall going to put up these walls so high that we can’t even recruit people? Will athletics need to put things up within their own department – that they’re not going to be able to recruit people?†Furda said. “Can we overly regulate, legislate any of the pieces?†-
In addition, there's this little bit from a member of the Athletic Department, concerning the investigation.
- Penn Athletics is currently in the "final stages" of an internal investigation conducted by a hired outside legal counsel, Associate Athletic Director of Administration and Strategic Communications Kevin Bonner said.
"We remain in the final stages of the investigation. If or when we have more information, we’ll be sure to reach out," wrote Bonner in an emailed statement to the DP. -
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
10-24-18 08:20 AM - Post#263393
In response to rbg
This wasn't a case of the system failing or lack of safeguards. This is a case of one person's moral failing. That person must have known better.
It's tough to pin much blame on anyone else when under the current system coaches can recruit AI ballast within the rules. How would the AD or Admissions know that Esformes was recruited not for his AI score but because Allen accepted a bribe?
The DP writers should know better than to dance around this.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32919
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-24-18 08:23 AM - Post#263395
In response to TheLine
Agreed, but in a way it is like 9/11---no one ever thought a hijacker would take a plane and blow himself up and use the plane as a bomb. After all, the procedure was to do whatever the hijacker wanted to save the passengers and crew. After 9/11, procedures had to change. They will have to change here, despite the fact that no one ever would have thought that a coach would use recruiting rules to obtain a bribe simply to help a kid get into the school for academics. There now will have to be some due diligence that all recruits are actually Division 1 level basketball players.
|
TheLine
Professor
Posts: 5597
Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
|
10-24-18 08:45 AM - Post#263398
In response to palestra38
How can you possibly judge that?
Coaches in this league regularly recruit players with marginal skills and high AI. How does anyone tell the difference between a player that the coach reasonably believes may be good enough to hang on the roster (and happens to have a high AI) and the player the coach is bringing in because he was bribed?
I get that Esformes was a particularly egregious case - we were laughing at his workout videos when he was recruited. I can envision situations that are not as clear, with a bribe making the difference as to whether one 'recruit' or another is coded.
Let's place the blame where it deserves to be placed - on the coach who took the bribe.
|
AsiaSunset
Postdoc
Posts: 4370
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-24-18 08:52 AM - Post#263401
In response to palestra38
I disagree and think Dean Furda is directly on point. You can't expect Admissions to evaluate whether a high school kid is a D1 talent. It's important to remember that there are 30+ varsity sports at Penn and this awful behavior could have taken place in any one of them. It happened in a sport near and dear to all of us and was perpetrated by a Penn icon, but it could have been the women's golf coach.
But certainly reinforcing strict rules of conduct through better staff training would be helpful. My understanding is we do do staff training for our coaches but this incident should be part of the unacceptable conduct reinforced in that training. I also think that the training could impose certain standards/expectations to be applied with so called AI boosters, who will continue to be utilized under a very flawed Ivy recruiting system that invites the use of such boosters.
|
palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32919
Reg: 11-21-04
|
10-24-18 09:20 AM - Post#263402
In response to TheLine
Obviously, I don't know the kid's qualifications for admission to Penn as a non-athlete, but let's just say that the liason between admissions and the team probably could have asked some questions which would have revealed that he needed the help to get into Penn and was not an AI booster---but the questions should be asked as to why this kid is being recruited. Perhaps I am incorrect and he was a great student and the use of athletic recruitment was overkill, but somehow, I doubt it.
|
Bill Lewis
Senior
Posts: 304
Reg: 12-23-04
|
Article: Jerome Took Bribes at Penn
10-24-18 09:24 AM - Post#263403
In response to palestra38
The Harvard data has the answer. The overall admit rate at Harvard is 5% and the recruited athlete admit rate is 85%.
Edited by Bill Lewis on 10-24-18 09:27 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
