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Username Post: Meisner        (Topic#21719)
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 09:44 AM - Post#259627    
    In response to SomeGuy

So SomeGuy, why not simply read your posts & see where you used that language? Also, why did your program altering coach have Patrick & Jaron take the same number of shots last season? Even you, SomeGuy, clearly not a Faulds fan by any means, stated that he was the better option,offensively speaking.


 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
07-30-18 12:01 PM - Post#259633    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Agree with SomeGuy's analysis of the numbers. It's fair to say Tape was a bit better than Faulds overall, with Tape better on the defensive end and Faulds on the offensive end. My eyeballs don't disagree with that. I would've like to see both play more minutes, especially towards the end of the season.

As much as I liked Faulds the player, he wasn't a 4 star and I wasn't expecting him to be. He was a good get overall but more like a 2*+ which is still good for our league. He didn't impress me as much as Cambridge or Atkinson. But don't think that's important to the gist of the conversation on this thread.

The bigger issue was why Hickman was given as long a leash as he was. He was a sinkhole. Pairing him with a good but somewhat out of control Smith didn't work because neither did much to help the rest of the team develop.

And it's never a good sign to have so many players transfer out, especially ones you are counting on. Sometimes you recruit a malcontent and that's understandable but rare. Sometimes there are events out of the coach's control - that also is understandable. But more likely something is amiss when you have this many players transferring out.


 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
07-30-18 01:51 PM - Post#259641    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Offense wasn’t the issue for Columbia last year. Statistically they had the best offense in the league. Defense is where they lost games. So it makes sense to go with the better defensive option between Tape and Faulds. As to who got more shots, Tape actually had a little higher usage rate than Faulds. But the argument that Faulds should get more shots than Tape could be extended out to explain why Faulds took so few shots — the only rotation players who had lower ORATs than Faulds were Tape, Hunter, Hickman and Hanson. So the guys taking the shots last year were generally better options (with the exception of Hickman).



 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
07-30-18 02:00 PM - Post#259643    
    In response to TheLine

Kind of a mystery to me what happened with Hickman. He was so good at the start of his junior year. Don’t know if they were just waiting for that guy to come back or what. Your point about the Smith pairing is a good one though — it seems like a pairing where the scoring was fairly static, and as one went up the other went down. So maybe after those first 6 games or so it became Smith’s team, and Hickman scored less.

I thought Hickman got a bit of an unfair bad rap last year, as he defended the perimeter better than any of the other options and seemed to be a leader. But the offense would have been more efficient if Adlesh shot more and Hickman less.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 02:05 PM - Post#259645    
    In response to SomeGuy

That word "generally" lets you maneuver; but you're saying Smith, with 250 missed shots was a better option than a kid making 60%- is that correct?


 
Columbia 37P6 
Postdoc
Posts: 2163

Reg: 02-14-06
07-30-18 02:50 PM - Post#259662    
    In response to AntiUngvar

May I suggest that you back off on Smith already, he's a great basketball player and certainly the key to whatever success this Columbia Basketball Team will have next season. None of us have been happy with Columbia's record in the Engles era, but Smith has been sensational and a joy to watch.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
07-30-18 02:58 PM - Post#259663    
    In response to AntiUngvar

Correct. Much of that is because of Smith’s ability to get to the line and convert (and Faulds’ ability to get to the line and not convert). Some of it is because a 3 is with more than a 2.

 
Mike Valmas 
Freshman
Posts: 26

Age: 94
Reg: 07-30-18
07-30-18 03:12 PM - Post#259664    
    In response to SomeGuy

I love Coach Engles.

 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
07-30-18 03:14 PM - Post#259665    
    In response to SomeGuy

I think the criticisms of Smith are unfair and frankly off point. Smith is a great player with NBA level skills. His shooting percentage suffers because he has to carry such an enormous load. And here is my last comment on Faulds. He has potential but just wasn’t strong enough to play more minutes. He needed some serious strength and conditioning work. And my final comment on Hickman; Caitlin was much better and Hickman should have been benched as soon as Caitlin was ready to go.


 
Chet Forte 
Postdoc
Posts: 2958

Reg: 03-02-08
07-30-18 03:14 PM - Post#259666    
    In response to Chet Forte

Meant Castlin of course.


 
Clyde 
Freshman
Posts: 11

Age: 55
Reg: 06-19-18
07-30-18 03:18 PM - Post#259667    
    In response to Chet Forte

NBA level skills? You're high.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 03:24 PM - Post#259670    
    In response to TheLine

Interesting commentary-thanks. SomeGuy works hard on the analytics and I guess you do, as well; but one thing I wish you guys would place some value on when you do these player comparisons is the respective ages of the individuals- Jaron Faulds was just 18 for the entire 17-18 season Patrick was more than a full year older, and these people you mention Cambridge and Atkinson (both attended prep schools after HS) are both a year older, too. And, believe it or not, Meisner turns 23 this week- big physical difference at times between a teenager and a 23 yearly man. Faulds is a huge loss for the program; he should have encouraged more when he was still here, and the relationship didn't have to end as it did. Regardless of your numerical evaluation, John Beilein
apparently believes in Jaron, and will offer him a real opportunity to contribute in Michigan; and I believe he'll do just that as soon as he's eligible to perform in 2019.
Nathan Hickman I thought actually came on during the final 2 Ivy weekends of the season- actually shooting over 50% and offering 17 points per game; thought he had a particularly hard time playing with Smith- though Nate was team captain, what could he possibly tell Smith (in the way of reeling him in) who usually played the whole game?


 
Mike Valmas 
Freshman
Posts: 26

Age: 94
Reg: 07-30-18
07-30-18 03:28 PM - Post#259672    
    In response to AntiUngvar

You should be a basketball coach. You're not realizing your full potential posting on message boards from your kitchen all day.

 
TheLine 
Professor
Posts: 5597

Age: 60
Reg: 07-07-09
07-30-18 03:32 PM - Post#259674    
    In response to AntiUngvar

I already said I'd have preferred they both received more minutes. If I went by eyes alone I'd have wanted Tape out there more than Faulds. But this isn't a Tape vs. Faulds thing to me, it's more of a why didn't both of them play more thing.

I disagree that Faulds going to be a difference maker at Michigan - if he couldn't dominate at our level then he has little chance of being anything better than back of the rotation there. Him transferring to Michigan lends more credence to the homesick argument TBH.


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 03:38 PM - Post#259677    
    In response to SomeGuy

A three is worth more than a two, if you make it. Consider it arithmetically: If you're shooting 60% (Faulds), you've got 12 points after taking 10 shots; 10/3s at 30 %(Smith) gives you 9 points. Smith didn't really get a good return on shooting fouls given all the misses- usually driving into a pack of players maintaining vertical position and tossing up prayers. Faulds wasn't out there enough and not given enough opportunities with the ball to accumulate a reasonable sample size of free throw attempts for you to gauge his FTP.


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 03:42 PM - Post#259678    
    In response to Columbia 37P6

What's your basis for that?


 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 04:14 PM - Post#259684    
    In response to Chet Forte

The criticisms of Smith are not unfair; you may not like them or agree with them, and why would you say they're off point? If he's been worn down by the manner his enabler's made use of him, use him differently- could the results possibly be any worse?


 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
07-30-18 04:55 PM - Post#259702    
    In response to AntiUngvar

All of that gets baked into the ORAT. So once you add the rate at which he gets to the line and the makes, Columbia is more likely to score when the ball is in Smith’s hands then they were with in Faulds’ hands.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
07-30-18 05:02 PM - Post#259703    
    In response to Chet Forte

Well, now i’ll be the jerk who disagrees with everyone on both sides of the argument. Offense wasn’t the problem for Columbia last year. Defense was. The same could be said for Smith. I don’t think he was anywhere lose to NBA level on offense, but he was obviously very good. But on defense, he hurts, and pairing him with another short guard in Adlesh hurts even more. And playing 2 small guards left Hickman with the toughest matchups of all.

 
AntiUngvar 
Masters Student
Posts: 530

Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
07-30-18 05:06 PM - Post#259704    
    In response to SomeGuy

Columbia was also more likely to not to score when it was in Smith hands because it's more often than not in his hands. But I'd have to say that most of this from you, of late, has been nonsense- a whitewashing of a season of horrible, horrible results.


 
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