palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-29-18 02:36 PM - Post#260787
In response to internetter
He's a 6 foot shooting guard, which is one of the problems the Lions have.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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08-29-18 05:15 PM - Post#260793
In response to palestra38
Smith LED THE LEAGUE is assts rate and was top 5 in A/TO.
No one on Yale,penn or Princeton (the top assist teams in the league) had a guy better.
You are delusional if you think Smith is the problem.
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palestra38
Professor
Posts: 32803
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-29-18 05:24 PM - Post#260795
In response to PennFan10
Just to note--you're not aiming that at me, are you?
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internetter
Postdoc
Posts: 3400
Loc: Los Angeles
Reg: 11-21-04
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08-29-18 08:48 PM - Post#260797
In response to palestra38
Smith's FG %:39, 3s:31 Near the bottom of the starters.
Engles said at NJIT and at Columbia that he likes to play his best player then whole game.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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08-29-18 09:40 PM - Post#260798
In response to palestra38
P38
You and I are the Philly Fanatics, remember? We know nothing. At least you have a Columbia degree to show for your appearance here. Not directed at you.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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08-29-18 11:11 PM - Post#260800
In response to AntiUngvar
I don’t disagree on Hickman — I don’t think that he was a great fit with Smith. I also don’t think Faulds was a great fit with what Columbia generally tries to do. Those things are at least partially on Engles. Columbia looked like mismatched parts to me, but some of that is a lack of complete 2 way players. The best offense involved playing two small guards (and often more than two). Unfortunately the problem could get worse, because the best 2 way player decided to forego his senior year.
I also don’t agree that Columbia has underachieved under Engles — their performance has been reasonably close to what one would expect statistically since the real strong senior class graduated a couple of years ago.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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08-29-18 11:27 PM - Post#260802
In response to PennFan10
I never used that language; I never called you a name. In fact, I generally enjoy reading both you and Palestra.Good night.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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08-31-18 10:47 AM - Post#260846
In response to SomeGuy
SomeGuy:
In the words of one NBA scout, Engles doesn't know how much he doesn't know. All I know is that seven games last season: vs. Quinnipiac & Navy at home; and on the road at Albany, Connecticut, Cornell, Dartmouth & Yale should have all wound up in the Columbia win column.You apparently were impressed with Kyle Smith's last Columbia team; but coaches from places such as Xavier, Michigan and the German pro league appreciated some of the more recent Columbia talent, too.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2967
Reg: 03-02-08
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 08-31-18 03:26 PM - Post#260854
In response to AntiUngvar
I also thought that Engles was out coached in the Penn game. But I am not sure if this discussion will go anywhere. It is clear that Engles will be back this year, and unless the wheels fall completely off the wagon we are going to have him all season. We will be playing with only one legitimate front court player, and when he gets into foul trouble we will basically be playing with four guards and one swing man. But I don’t know if we can expect another Mangurian to Bagnoli miracle this time.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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Northwestern
08-31-18 04:28 PM - Post#260856
In response to AntiUngvar
I don’t put much stock in where the transfers went. There have been a number of players from the lower division Ivy teams who have done that, and more could have if they wanted to be a smaller fish at a higher level program. We’ll see how much they play.
On the coaching thing, I certainly agree on the Penn game at the Palestra, though I also think Columbia was outmanned. At Columbia, I’m not sure Penn won the coaching battle. Dev Goodman saved our bacon, and I suspect that surprised Donahue every bit as much as it did Columbia. If anything, I think Columbia was better prepared. It just happened that Penn’s 9th guy in the rotation was too much for Columbia when they were selling out to stop AJ and Betley.
One other point on the out coaching thing, though — it’s a zero sum game. Losing the coaching battle is going to happen to every coach every year, a bunch of times.
Edited by SomeGuy on 08-31-18 04:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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AntiUngvar
Masters Student
Posts: 530
Age: 69
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
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08-31-18 06:23 PM - Post#260857
In response to SomeGuy
SomeGuy: If you're not as delusional as those Philly guys say you are, you'll be able to name me ONE coach who's lost a coaching battle to Jim Engles in the last two years! Go right ahead:
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-01-18 12:10 AM - Post#260860
In response to AntiUngvar
I already said one — I thought Engles outcoached Donahue at Columbia.
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Silver Maple
Postdoc
Posts: 3770
Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
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09-01-18 06:49 AM - Post#260861
In response to SomeGuy
Not sure I agree. Goodman did a good job in the first half keeping Penn in the game. But, in the second half, Penn made some adjustments and ran away with it. There was long stretch during which Columbia was completely ineffective on both ends of the court, and that was pretty much the game. Goodman wasn't a major factor during that period. That doesn't sound like Engles outcoaching Donahue.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-01-18 10:11 AM - Post#260863
In response to Silver Maple
Agreed that Penn made adjustments as the game went on. But without Goodman’s first half, none of that would have mattered. We would have been blown out. The reason that was a danger was because of adjustments Columbia made after the first game. They took Betkey away entirely and limited AJ’s impact (though he was still very efficient and effective). The lack of comparative depth was the issue for Columbia, and is not something they could coach their way out of.
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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09-01-18 11:07 AM - Post#260865
In response to AntiUngvar
SomeGuy: If you're not as delusional as those Philly guys say you are, you'll be able to name me ONE coach who's lost a coaching battle to Jim Engles in the last two years! Go right ahead:
I am pretty sure Engles out coached Amaker (which is a low bar) on Feb 2, 2018 at Levien. After trailing at the half 35-41 to the Crimson, Columbia won 83-76. Harvard shot 43% from the arc too!
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hoopsfan
Masters Student
Posts: 644
Reg: 12-26-04
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09-01-18 12:02 PM - Post#260866
In response to PennFan10
In the second half of the Harvard game as it tightened Columbia ran a play out of a timeout to get Meisner an open jumper at the foul line which he hit. Later they ran a new out-of-bounds play from the backcourt that gave Tape a breakaway dunk plus 1.
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HARVARDDADGRAD
Postdoc
Posts: 2691
Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
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09-01-18 12:21 PM - Post#260867
In response to hoopsfan
Footnote: Bryce Aiken was injured midway through that game. Regardless, the Lions are always tough for the Crimson at Levien
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PennFan10
Postdoc
Posts: 3584
Reg: 02-15-15
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Northwestern
09-01-18 01:32 PM - Post#260869
In response to HARVARDDADGRAD
Harvard did fine the rest or the way without Aiken. That wasn’t a factor. Engles did a good job in that win
Edited by PennFan10 on 09-01-18 01:54 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
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Chet Forte
Postdoc
Posts: 2967
Reg: 03-02-08
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09-01-18 03:20 PM - Post#260870
In response to PennFan10
Donohue seems to have great chemistry with his players.
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SomeGuy
Professor
Posts: 6404
Reg: 11-22-04
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09-01-18 05:58 PM - Post#260872
In response to Chet Forte
I think that’s right. Winning covers over a lot, though. There are a lot of guys who have seen their roles reduced over time, and there is lots of consternation about that on the Penn board, just like there has been controversy over playing time for various Columbia guys. A couple of guys really set the tone by staying positive about playing time decisions that I am sure they did not agree with. Buy-in could start with Donahue and ways he may operate/relate differently from how Engles does, but it also could be that the players themselves took the high road and didn’t complain.
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