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Username Post: MMM All-Ivy preview        (Topic#21935)
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1015

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
10-13-18 11:02 AM - Post#262509    

https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/10/11/1796406...

Dez apparently just squeaking onto the 2nd team. And no mention of Anderson. Upperclassman bias aside, that’s either great news for the league or too little regard for Brown’s guards.

Not sure which to root for.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1982

Reg: 02-15-15
10-13-18 11:42 AM - Post#262510    
    In response to Bruno

Too little regard for Brown's guards? Really? Ok, forget the potential newcomers, you get to pick 2, ok 3 from this list:

Bryce Aiken
Miye Oni
Matt Morgan
Ryan Betley
Devin Cannaday
Dez Cambridge
Mike Smith

This is a talented league at the guard position. Good luck.




 
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1015

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
10-13-18 10:06 PM - Post#262520    
    In response to PennFan10

So you’re going with the latter? That’s fine. It is good news for the league.

But I think Cambridge is a first teamer. Even as a soph.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1982

Reg: 02-15-15
10-13-18 11:12 PM - Post#262522    
    In response to Bruno

I picked a mix really. Anderson isn't good enough to be on this list and Cambridge has a chance to be a 1st teamer.

 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
10-13-18 11:40 PM - Post#262525    
    In response to Bruno

Well, who on the MMM list do you put him ahead of, and why?

 
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1015

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
10-14-18 07:05 AM - Post#262531    
    In response to SomeGuy

I put him in front of everyone but Morgan. Nobody else can dominate a game offensively and defensively like Cambridge can - and did. Fabulous players on this list. But Cambridge is another level.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
10-14-18 08:00 AM - Post#262533    
    In response to Bruno

I guess this is where my bias toward the winning players comes in — because I actually think Morgan is the weakest player on the list. I also think you underestimate the ability of some of the other guys to dominate a game. How can you watch the two Brown games with Harvard last year and think Cambridge dominates a game more than Towns? You guys lost both games, Towns averaged 27 ppg against you, shot about 50% from the floor, and was the game high scorer both games. Cambridge scored a comparatively pedestrian 16 ppg while shooting 33%. Towns dominated those games. Cambridge did not.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
10-14-18 09:14 PM - Post#262559    
    In response to SomeGuy

SomeGuy:
I know you're prone to take the road less traveled. I know you're capable of disagreeing with yourself in the midst of pecking a three letter word. But you didn't really watch 2 Brown v. Harvard games last year- don't think they could even pay Tommy Amaker enough money to spend his time that way!


 
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1015

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
10-14-18 09:40 PM - Post#262562    
    In response to SomeGuy

Nobody but you is comparing Cambridge with Towns. Cambridge a 6’4 guard and Towns a 6’7 F. I think we’ve been talking the guard spots all along.

But since you brought it up, Cambridge was playing hurt in the second Harvard game. In the first one he had 22 and Harvard won on FTs in the final minute. In the second one Brown lost by single digits. Towns was awesome in both. But otherwise not sure the purpose of this comparison.

It’s hard to compare all the guards apples to apples given different roles. But I think there’s a reason Matt Morgan was a top 10 in the nation scorer, has some NBA interest, all despite being 6’2.
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
SomeGuy 
Postdoc
Posts: 4704

Reg: 11-22-04
10-14-18 10:29 PM - Post#262565    
    In response to Bruno

I guess I misunderstood you. You posted the mid major first team list and then said Cambridge should be there. I asked who from the list you would replace — the list was Towns, Brodeur, Oni, Lewis, and Morgan. You said Morgan was he only guy you would put ahead of Cambridge. So I took that to mean Cambridge ahead of all the guys on the list. I guess you just meant guard? But if Morgan is the only guard on the list, and you would put him ahead of Cambridge, who does Cambridge replace?

 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1982

Reg: 02-15-15
10-15-18 07:04 AM - Post#262568    
    In response to SomeGuy

Hmmm. My Sherlock Holmes brain tells me he thinks dez over Oni

 
rbg 
PhD Student
Posts: 1047

Reg: 10-20-14
10-15-18 08:15 AM - Post#262586    
    In response to PennFan10

A very good list of talented guards in the IL
Brown - Cambridge, Anderson
Columbia - Smith
Cornell - Morgan
Dartmouth - Barry
Harvard - Aiken, Juzang, Bassey
Penn - Betley
Princeton - Stephens, Cannady
Yale - Oni

Add to that, a group of highly rated rookies at Columbia (Ellis), Dartmouth (Samuels), Harvard (Kirkwood, Freedman), Penn (Washington), Princeton (Llewellyn), and Yale (Cotton). Several on this list should get a chance to play serious minutes this year.

(My apologies that I don't know much about the Brown newcomers or the potential for sophomore George Mawanda-Kalema who played in only 1 game last season. With Cambridge, Anderson and Hunsaker getting over 30 minutes each, I don't know if any of the other guards will get much play, though.)

With no disrespect to a very talented player, it might be difficult for Cambridge to crack into the top 2. However, if he can lead the Bears into the Ivy Tournament, it might be hard to keep him off the first team.

 
palestra38 
Professor
Posts: 19970

Reg: 11-21-04
10-15-18 08:27 AM - Post#262587    
    In response to rbg

I think Cambridge is the most dynamic offensive player on that list. He may be the best overall. Doesn't mean he'll be first team as a soph.

 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1269

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
MMM All-Ivy preview
10-15-18 10:13 AM - Post#262599    
    In response to palestra38

Remember, last year's graduates and this year's senior class are relatively weaker. There are now three strong recruiting classes which are going to make the competition for individual awards very tough. Of course, circumstances affect things as well. For instance, Aiken was first team as a frosh, but his injury allowed Juzang and Bassey to flourish. The injury to Towns put Bassey in the spotlight in the NIT where he looked awesome (19 pts, 12 rbs, 5 assists) against a good Marquette team. Bassey plays offense as a guard but as Harvard's best defender often ends up guarding the opponent's best player.

A lot of this will be determined by unpredictable circumstances beyond anyone's control. Also, there are some GREAT freshman guards who will absolutely see time (Llewellyn) or who may fight there way into relevance (Kirkwood).

Edited by HARVARDDADGRAD on 10-15-18 10:15 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Re: MMM All-Ivy preview
10-15-18 03:31 PM - Post#262653    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

Dad: What makes you so high on Liewelyn?
And what do you think of the comment in the mid major piece, that "there are just so many Harvard players we can acknowledge?" WHY NOT SIMPLY LIST THOSE YOU SEE AS MOST DESERVING, WITHOUT TOSSING A (NON) OBLIGATORY BONE TO EACH OF THE ANCIENT EIGHT MEMBER SCHOOLS??


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1269

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
10-15-18 07:28 PM - Post#262662    
    In response to AntiUngvar

In the case of Llewellyn, I'm trusting the rating services, seemingly confirmed by Mike James. More importantly, he had 19 offers, most of them power 5 (Virginia, Ohio State, Clemson, Florida, Purdue, Wake Forest, Tennessee, Stanford, etc.). Last Ivy resume like that belonged to Seth Towns.

As for your second point, we seem to be in agreement. There are a lot of variables related to an individual's recognition, including those endemic to the fact that there's only one basketball. Don't know whether Llewellyn will end up being decisively better than Kirkwood, but Princeton needs a starting guard this year whereas Harvard does not. All-Ivy should rightfully recognize performance. The most skilled player may not perform (or be provided the opportunity to perform).



 
PennFan10 
PhD Student
Posts: 1982

Reg: 02-15-15
MMM All-Ivy preview
10-15-18 11:10 PM - Post#262669    
    In response to HARVARDDADGRAD

There’s at least a decent chance that the best newcomer in the league this year isn’t named Kirkwood or Llewellyn.

Edited by PennFan10 on 10-15-18 11:34 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bruno 
PhD Student
Posts: 1015

Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Reg: 11-21-04
Re: MMM All-Ivy preview
10-16-18 05:56 AM - Post#262670    
    In response to PennFan10

I dunno. Have you see the Llewelyn highlight films? He looks like he is very good at basketball. (Not being sarcastic. Looks like a stud.)
LET'S go BRU-no (duh. nuh. nuh-nuh-nuh)


 
AntiUngvar 
Junior
Posts: 217

Age: 64
Loc: New York City
Reg: 07-23-18
Re: MMM All-Ivy preview
10-16-18 08:44 AM - Post#262678    
    In response to Bruno

His dad, who beat UCLA in the dance 20 plus years ago, may have been the true stud!


 
HARVARDDADGRAD 
PhD Student
Posts: 1269

Loc: New Jersey
Reg: 01-21-14
Re: MMM All-Ivy preview
10-16-18 09:04 AM - Post#262679    
    In response to Bruno

Went back to read up on Jaelin Llewellyn and found only glowing reports, even one that expect him to enter the draft after his freshman season!

You apparently have a frosh other than Llewellyn and Kirkwood in mind. Who else do you think is in the running for ROY?

 
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