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Username Post: Red and Blue Scrimmage        (Topic#21962)
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
10-22-18 10:54 AM - Post#263205    
    In response to PennFan10

Yes I neglected to mention Wang and Max were on the same Red team but my point was that Wang was not guarding him.

That said, your comment about using him as a wing 3/4 is intriguing in the sense that this indicates, as you point out, that we will see him out there with Max and AJ. How many Ivy teams could matchup with that combo? The comment about Wood makes sense in that he would provide offense off the bench as Caleb did, but perhaps in a different way. Beyond his 3-point ability, Wang looks like he loves to run and his passing/finishing ability makes him extremely effective on the break. I am envisioning Woods/Goodman/Wang doing some major damage that way.



 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
10-22-18 11:40 AM - Post#263210    
    In response to Streamers

Managing distribution of fouls is often a key determinative of who is on the court with any particular players at any point in any game.

I personally don't see us using Mike Wang as a 3 too much but you never know. I think Ryan Betley plays a ton of minutes. Now if Ryan can play some two guard that creates more line-up flexibility but I haven't seen much of that in the past and I'm not sure we will see it this year.

What we are sure to see is one of our bigs pick up two early fouls and I think we have better options when that happens (and it will) than in past years with Wang and Simmons and perhaps even Jackson.

The R&B was nothing more than just another practice. There is still a lot of work to be done. Having said that I think it's clear kids are battling hard for PT and that nothing is yet set in stone.



 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
10-22-18 01:10 PM - Post#263218    
    In response to AsiaSunset

Mike Wang said this to the DP after the scrimmage:

“Defensively I have to get better because this year, with AJ [Brodeur] and Max [Rothschild] I’ll be playing the three a little bit. I have to be able to guard little guards so that’s going to help me stay on the floor,” Wang said.

That's also consistent from what I have heard and how we played against Bucknell last week. It may end up just an experiment, but there will be 3 bigs on the floor at times early this season.



 
Streamers 
Professor
Posts: 8141
Streamers
Loc: NW Philadelphia
Reg: 11-21-04
10-22-18 01:20 PM - Post#263222    
    In response to AsiaSunset

PF10 points out that, barring injuries, the returning starters will get at least half the PT. How much of the remainder goes to Wang, Simmons, Goodman, Scott, Washington, Silpe, JD, et. al. is a guessing game and will likely change week-week once the season starts.

Of course, that will not stop us from talking about it.

It will be great to have additional front court options when the time comes. The idea of surrounding Goodman or Woods with Betley at the 2, Wang, AJ, and Max feels great when they have the ball but could be vulnerable on D.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
10-22-18 01:32 PM - Post#263223    
    In response to Streamers

Not sure if it will turn out to be a fit with all 3 on the floor, but I am loving the idea that Wang is good enough to force this conversation. A 6’10 guy playing the 3 in the Ivy is certainly intriguing. With height inflation, it might not be all that different from Koko Archibong and Jed Ryan in 2018 terms. Actually with the combo of length/athleticism and shooting 3s, he could be a nice mix of those two.

 
Bill Lewis 
Senior
Posts: 304

Reg: 12-23-04
10-22-18 01:40 PM - Post#263227    
    In response to PennFan10

Will Donahue play some zone defensive when the 3 big men are on the floor?

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
10-22-18 01:58 PM - Post#263235    
    In response to Bill Lewis

Doubt they play any zone. Wang is no worse of a defender than Caleb a year ago and he is longer with better rebounding. He will struggle with opposing wings for sure but you have Max and Aj who can guard all 5 spots really and Woods who can guard 4 spots. Thats a lot of versatility on the defensive end. I'm not saying it will work, but its clear they will try it for a time.



 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
Red and Blue Scrimmage
10-22-18 11:56 PM - Post#263290    
    In response to SomeGuy

A few more thoughts from Saturday.

I know I went on about Wang, but I really couldn't believe what I was watching. Maybe my expectations weren't huge, but it was more than just his handle and 3-point shot. Every time I looked up he was grabbing a board underneath the basket too. The text messages from my friends sure were fun, and I don't think people are going to care that it's pronounced Wong. Ha. What a pleasure it's going to be watching him grow.

Eddie looks bigger and will help in a lot of places, but that jump shot...I don't remember what his 3-point shot looked like last year, but that is not a long-term winning strategy.

I really think they're going to get some contribution from Tyler. He just has a smoothness to him and an ability to finish that most don't have. If he can play defense, he will absolutely get real minutes.

I can't remember who made Mark Jackson fall over with a move, but it was pretty funny. He certainly still needs time getting comfortable out there, but he will be better than some of the other big men projects of the past that didn't do anything. That said, I don't ever see him playing much more than 5 minutes a game.

I want to see more from Bryce before I can make a decision but I trust the practice reports so I'm excited. It means nothing, but I liked what I saw in pregame warmups from an ability standpoint.

Jarrod looked the same...Take that to mean whatever you like.

AJ's shoulders somehow look even wider. I didn't see him shoot a 3 and I didn't see him attempt to go left, but if either of those are improved, it's going to somehow be even better.

One last note. It is obvious how much the guys support and want Kuba to succeed. They must see his pure 3-point jumper every day in practice and know it's in there. If he could somehow land somewhere between a Sam Jones instant offense spark and Caleb-lite, it would be really helpful.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
10-22-18 11:59 PM - Post#263291    
    In response to Quakers03

Gotta remember Bryce was guarded most of the time by Antonio. He is one of the better defenders in the league and he gave him fits most of the day. Bryce will be fine.

 
AsiaSunset 
Postdoc
Posts: 4350

Reg: 11-21-04
10-23-18 06:07 AM - Post#263294    
    In response to PennFan10

Lots of stuff happens in the season that's unpredictable; however, assuming everyone is healthy, I see Ryan, AJ and Antonio averaging 30 minutes a game. I think Max will average around 25.

The second guard spot remains a mystery. I feel Devon is going to get time somewhere. The issue of whether Devon and Antonio on the court together are our strongest duo is debatable. I think Devon might fair better as a change of pace guy off the bench and they might fair well on the court together for stretches. Having said that, I think a bigger line up might be preferable. So I see minutes available up front for Wang and Simmons and then a bit of a battle for time at the 2/3 with a bunch of guys actively competing. That competition could go on all season and the mix can change. From what I've heard, Bryce Washington is in that mix of guys competing for that PT.

If we do have 3 bigs on the court at the same time, I think zone might be an interesting change up as someone else suggested. It might be effective with either Wang or Simmons at the top of the zone. Both are long and can run the court. I remember the problems Kareem Maddox from Princeton caused out top of that Princeton zone defense. Our bigs may be athletic enough to replicate that success.

But we'll see. Assuming everyone is healthy there are many possibilities and what happens at the beginning of the season may change as we move into Ivy play.

 
Quakers03 
Professor
Posts: 12480

Reg: 12-07-04
10-23-18 10:58 AM - Post#263320    
    In response to PennFan10

  • PennFan10 Said:
Gotta remember Bryce was guarded most of the time by Antonio. He is one of the better defenders in the league and he gave him fits most of the day. Bryce will be fine.



Oh, I remember.

  • Quakers03 Said:
Bryce looks like he has the tools to compete, but he was stuck dealing with Antonio, who not surprisingly looks to be in much better shape than last year.



As for Jarrod, I just don't see him getting major minutes. Maybe there is a different motor at practice, but he just seems to disappear when out there. I'd love to be wrong as I'm in love with his sweet stroke, but I feel that something hasn't clicked yet. I saw he received a lunch pale award (thanks to Max) and was encouraged, but he has to prove it.

 
SteveChop 
PhD Student
Posts: 1150

Reg: 07-28-07
Re: d and Blue Scrimmage
10-23-18 12:26 PM - Post#263341    
    In response to Quakers03

AJ did take one 3 (and made it). He did go left one time under the basket and made the shot but with his right hand. He'll be fine.

 
Silver Maple 
Postdoc
Posts: 3765

Loc: Westfield, New Jersey
Reg: 11-23-04
10-23-18 01:23 PM - Post#263352    
    In response to SteveChop

I wasn't at the scrimmage, but I get the impression that Simmons still looks kind of lost out there. Some kids are never able to adjust to the college game. I hope that's not the case here.

 
Penndemonium 
PhD Student
Posts: 1878

Reg: 11-29-04
10-23-18 01:33 PM - Post#263356    
    In response to Silver Maple

I've commented on this from his HS video days that I was uncertain about his motor. I would now reframe it this way. He seems to often be conserving energy and/or deciding what to do. I really like what he will bring to the table if he rehearses his decision making more so he can play at full speed and also put in full time energy like Brodeur. It may sound very critical, but I was often that type of athlete too - it's not easy to solve. It's about mental aggression. Also Simmons needs to keep his hands up, regardless of the situation. Scrappy and nettlesome players (which Simmons needs to become) just have their hands up more and take up space. His are often by his side, even as people are running through their plays. He doesn't seem to have a body on another player until he thinks he needs to.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
10-23-18 09:42 PM - Post#263385    
    In response to Penndemonium

Well, part of the issue there may be that it always seemed like he was getting called whenever he made contact with anyone last year. Could be chicken and egg — the lack of aggression can sometimes lead to fouls. But he could be too worried about fouls, and last year he seemed to be a guy that refs were looking out for.

 
PennFan10 
Postdoc
Posts: 3580

Reg: 02-15-15
10-24-18 12:14 AM - Post#263389    
    In response to SomeGuy

Are we talking about Simmons? I don't think a guy who played about 5 minutes a game, if at all, was on the referee's scouting report.

 
SomeGuy 
Professor
Posts: 6391

Reg: 11-22-04
10-24-18 05:55 PM - Post#263433    
    In response to PennFan10

Yes. Maybe too flip to suggest they were looking for him personally — may just be that he did things that any ref would call. Regardless, he was fouling at the highest rate on the team, and more than twice the rate of most of the team.

 
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